The only hope for this country is democratic socialism & equal redistribution of wealth

Originally posted by counterterrorist
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

2) And who's going to be in charge of this so-called distribution of wealth? Will a corrupt government be in charge? Please be specific and not just say 'you' will.

WE THE PEOPLE.

You did exactly what I asked you NOT to do. Your simplistic answer means nothing. How do you propose this happens? How will the 300 million people in the U.S. alone figure out how to distribute the money? Who will oversee this plan and figure out how much money each person gets. You are NOT thinking it through. You are giving simplistic answers which are not answers. It's only utopia dreaming.

reply to post by WhatTheory

3) Who gets to decide how much your job is or is not worth? Why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount? The point is innovation is gone which leads to stagnation and then a decline in one's way of life.

All jobs will pay the same. Ever heard of the MMPI psychological inventory used to tell high school kids what jobs they're suited for?

They go to a profession and list the common personality traits of all those that work in that profession.

In otherwords, Mr. & Mrs. God have given us personalities with traits, such as 'artists] creativity and imagination -- which I'm sure you despise unless you can make money off them and consider them worthless, and consider all art to be worthless unless it makes money'

and, 'danger-seeking', a trait shared by policemen and criminals.

Therefore, the same God who created all this, has already determined which people will gravitate towards which professions. Those who don't have to work, like fish, birds, insects, trees, mammals, invertebrates, OR PEOPLE, don't have to. There are plenty resources to go around ... except when capitalists are around with the guns and fractional interest and PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF PUBLIC WEALTH.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

Sorry dont know how that double posted.

The numbers are going to have to be visible. In the end we will all be able to see whats going on by looking online. The truth shall set you free.

China and russia were never socialist/communist.. they still have billionaires with most the money and the rest get divided up. Thats another illusion.

Once everyone sees the scams of the superrich and their sorcery of control, things will change drastically. WE will never allow people with that much money again. Yes mnay will probably die taking out these fools.

I think the masters have all explained that balance is the answer. Capitalism and communism are not balanced. There can be a balance in incentive and meeting everyones basic needs with all contributing in some way.

Its so simple....Why act like "black/white" dualistic doofs. Like theres only two systems or something. Europe is more balanced than us already, check it out they are starting to kick our azz. its time to evolve

reply to post by Zepherian


The simple fact is that redistributing the country's wealth will not solve anything. It will serve to demoralize anyone that has worked to earn their money, and I am not talking about the 50K a year job, I am speaking to the ones that earn 700K to 1million a year. There are quite a few of these people and families out there that have worked hard to get where they are in life. To take that away you take away anything they have ever done to get there.

What do you plan on doing with healthcare and the sick and handicapped population during this wonderful redistribution? How do you keep a good doctor that gets paid well for what he/she does employed when you take away their salary and their second home, then cut the pharma companies down so there is no medicine, then cut the holding companies at the knees that own the hospitals so there is no more funding? Then what? It really would be only the strong survive...the weak and disabled perish.

This is seriously a bad idea.

Originally posted by counterterrorist
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

3) Who gets to decide how much your job is or is not worth? Why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount? The point is innovation is gone which leads to stagnation and then a decline in one's way of life.

All jobs will pay the same. Ever heard of the MMPI psychological inventory used to tell high school kids what jobs they're suited for?

That's the point which you missed again.
"All jobs will pay the same".....That is the problem and does not answer the question. Since all jobs will pay the same why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount? The point is innovation is gone which leads to stagnation and then a decline in one's way of life. You cannot seem to answer this simple question. Judging by your response you plan on dictating people's jobs. Who gets to decide this? So you will tell somebody what their job will be and at the same time telling a Doctor that he will get paid the same as a janitor even though it takes years and years of schooling. Or a policeman will get the same pay as a ditch digger even though the policeman will be risking his life. Your thinking is dangerous and nothing but lunacy.

reply to post by RRconservative


I'm assuming you are being humorous...

in which case, I'd like to point out to my hardcore free-market peeps that if you have this hard-ass attitude, people WILL pull themselves up... by YOUR bootstraps.

how?

If they can't get a job, they can't get healthcare etc. etc. they will take it from you.

if you are the one with the needed good, and they can't GET that needed good, they will probably kill you if necessary to insure the survival of their kids, loved ones, and selves.

everyone has an instinct to survive, an overwhelming drive.

If they feel and in practice just plain CAN'T get anywhere, they will 'go feral' and take it out of your hide, and there' no private army big enough to stop that kind of civic unrest.

Socialist countries are hardly ever socialist in this world. that would require the haves to actually help and not exploit the have-nots.

China is no more or less capitalist than they ever were, they just figured out that if you keep the people in consumer goods [SUVs, iPhones] they won't care what they have to do or how they have to live.

What crowd of homeless people? I forget them when I turn on my TV and veg out behind me reinforced doors and barred windows....

you know poor people are only illusions. they stop existing when you throw them out the door. just POOF!

lol

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
This has to be among the dumbest threads I have ever seen in my time at ATS. This is nothing more than pathetic class-jealousy.
We have a word for people who employ this type of thinking: parasites. The parasite is the natural enemy of free men and free will.

You don't know how correct you are.

However, I am willing to bet the OP will never get it.

Well, both of you guys are probably equally uneducated. So let's give it another try, okay.

Ever hear of the DEPRESSION? Hmmm. Let me think a minute. Every hear of the Soviet revolution THROUGHOUT EUROPE? Hmmm.

The Depression was engineered by the Bank of England FED to STOP the Soviet revolution in the USA by bankrupting EVERYONE that believed in democracy and fairness AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.

Both of you high school drop-outs could learn to read and read these posts, when you get your hands off your you know what.
eustace
www.barefootsworld.net...

Until you're educated, why don't you miss me a while.

I know all fence-post IQ's can't get this one, so don't even try.
For neo-Nazi holocaust deniers
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You aren't gifted enough or worked hard enough to even skim the pages of that post. You lazy people who don't work and just live off working people will NEVER BE CAPITALISTS, you're just wannabees. You should marry each other.

One million dollars for a lifetime? Lets see, assuming we are allowed to start collecting at 18 years of age, and assuming we live to say 75, thats only 17,543 per year. Oh yeah! cant wait to start spending!

reply to post by counterterrorist


oh, great.

Perhaps you didn't see what happened when Russia tried this?


Humans evolved from Apes. We require an alpha male/female to lead us.


UPDATE:

If England wanted to bankrupt the capitalists, wouldn't that BREED communism, not crush it?

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Gorman91]


I understand communism is the best system. But because humans are social people who require appraisal for work and a reason there of too work.

Humans are this way due to evolution. Maybe when we grow out of this, it will work, but until then, no.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Gorman91]

reply to post by WhatTheory


How is it more lunacy, than a world where people die of starvation by the millions because some super rich guy in the west wants another villa in greece ? This may be caricatural, but it's not far of from the truth. America needs to pull its head out of it's a$$ ! Capitalism is dying, and the average joe is dying with it. Literally.
The cold war is over guys, get over it. Maybe, just maybe, we should pause for second, check out the HUGE cliff at the end of the road, and pause. Capitalism is a darwinian system. We are a social species. Instead of hoarding wealth, maybe we should try sharing it...
As an answer to the classical "i earn't it the hard way, it's mine, from my cold dead hands you red", check things out from another point view. Maybe it's a better insurance policy to share your food with your neighbour, that way he doesn't want to kill you because you have more than enough and his kids are starving.. Half the world feels this way about America...
Counterterrorist, your point of view encourages me to believe that some people think, instead of acting like solitary predators.

reply to post by Ismail


it's better that a few die of starvation than we all do because a group of elites hold control.

Communism will ALWAYS breed elites.

We evolved to follow something, so we will FIND something to follow in the lack there of.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by counterterrorist
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

3) Who gets to decide how much your job is or is not worth? Why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount? The point is innovation is gone which leads to stagnation and then a decline in one's way of life.

All jobs will pay the same. Ever heard of the MMPI psychological inventory used to tell high school kids what jobs they're suited for?

They go to a profession and list the common personality traits of all those that work in that profession.

In otherwords, Mr. & Mrs. God have given in personalities with traits, such as 'artists] creativity and imagination -- which I'm sure you despise unless you can make money off them and consider them worthless, and consider all art to be worthless unless it makes money'

and, 'danger-seeking', a trait shared by policemen and criminals.

Therefore, the same God who created all this, has already determined which people will gravitate towards which professions. Those who don't have to work, like fish, birds, insects, trees, mammals, invertebrates, OR PEOPLE, don't have to. There are plenty resources to go around ... except when capitalists are around with the guns and fractional interest and PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF PUBLIC WEALTH.

So.......what if nobody, or very few want to work? Are you going to force them?

There simply is NO example in history of this working. None. Not even on a modified basis. So, why do you suppose it would work now?

^ Hence why communism doesn't work. A leader rises amongst the wild masses to proclaim the forcing of others to work, and then an elite class rises of that leader's friends, and la de dum, you've got a dictator.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by counterterrorist
why, then the worst thing that could happen is ... what ... absolutely nothing.

Economic collapse. Mass starvation. Just little set bumps on the road, you know?

That's exactly what's going on right now. Ever consider looking at the world. It's a scary place. If you didn't learn your lesson NOT TO QUESTION AUTHORITY OR ROCK THE BOAT from 911/WTC -- wait a minute, I guess you did. You seem to favor the NWO. Do you?

Do you like their little iddy biddy capitalism?

you only reply to those who you can prove wrong.

Prove me wrong, friend. Why is my statement incorrect.

reply to post by Gorman91


Read some books. I'm not communist. But I know what communism is. If you think China or Russia were at any point communist, you're wrong.

reply to post by Ismail


Well that's the point. You Can't have communism because it's impossible. It ALWAYS goes into dictatorship. From nothing, comes something: a dictator.

As I said, communism is the perfect system, but it's incompatible with human nature.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
Not without a civil war. There are many of us on the extreme right and armed to the teeth that would kill any chance and your communist world. We beat back that stupid idea during the cold war. Get over it.

Well, the last time I noticed you guys have no teeth, you're all paper tigers.

If you were armed, why didn't you go see Cheney and Bush, are they your playboy pinups?

Harriman financed the Bolsheviks. Brown Brothers Harriman and the Bushes and Fed and Bank of England did too. THE RICHEST CAPITALISTS IN THE U.S. FINANCED THE COMMUNISTS UP THROUGH THE VIETNAM WAR, AND PROBABLY STILL DO TODAY.

I really don't want you to shoot blanks, so here's a few urls for you.
eustace
www.barefootsworld.net...

For neo-Nazi holocaust deniers
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What companies do you hate the most
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by counterterrorist

Why not do away with money entirely ..go straight to Utopia..
Money is a paradigm , it has the power that we give it..and when we choose to exchange value goods and services for radishes or carrots..then..the paradigm is broken. Now how many carrots and potatoes to buy a truck? Well they wont build anymore trucks because they are not in the carrot and potato business.
Good luck with that socialism thing.