WTC-7 North Side MASSIVE Fires .... CBS News

reply to post by ThroatYogurt




Did you know that buildings 4, 5, and 6 were on fire directly behind WTC7, in addition to the still-smoldering rubble piles?


WTC4 (what little was not destroyed by debris)




WTC5 (largely obscured by smoke/buildings)










WTC6 (mostly obscured by smoke)






And the rubble piles were still smoldering, of course.


The cherry on top is that none of those buildings collapsed, either.

And they all had thinner columns, etc., basically a much weaker construction (yes, even relative to the "weight" they were "holding" for anyone unfamiliar with civil engineering techniques).



All that behind WTC7 added up to looking like this:




It is NOT all coming from WTC7. Further, the wind was blowing South, so a lot of the smoke rising behind WTC7 is just blown South as soon as it reaches the wind that WTC7 itself is helping block.

A map for further reference:



[edit on 25-6-2008 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11


Why does hearsay need to be refuted? You know what hearsay is, right? Not evidence.

Bsbray,

Let me make it easy for you: Please show me quotes from firefighters or other eyewitnesses that state the fires were not as I have presented with the statements YOU claimed I cherry picked. Besides quotes from EMS soon after the collapse of the towers, I have yet to see any.

Originally posted by bsbray11 I can post testimony from a NYPD officer who was at the base of WTC7 when it started collapsing, and he said explosions ripped through its bottom-most floors to start bringing it down. He also said he saw all the damage to the South face earlier, and that it was definitely not enough to cause the entire building to begin falling simultaneously. What's the difference between testimonies like this, and the guy trapped inside of WTC7, and your cherry-picked testimonies from various people standing at a distance?

There was a policeman at the base of WTC-7 when it started collapsing? Can you please post his testimony? Also please provide YOUR definition or that of the policeman's of "base". My understanding was there was a collapse zone and not one was at the base at the time of collapse.

I'm also curious as to the training this officer had in his determining that the building should not have collapsed.

You are biased towards thinking one thing, and so were the people you pick to cite. They had just undergone an extremely traumatic set of events. They had absolutely no precedent and therefore no training or qualifications to be able to look at WTC7 and say what brought it down or how much damage had actually been done. Hell, NIST has been looking at it for years and still can't tell us what happened! Hello?!

Hearsay = not evidence.

I am biased?? I started looking into 911 because I was curious. I was actually hoping there was a conspiracy because of my hatred toward GWB. But, there was in fact no evidence to support it.

The FDNY had just witnessed two skyscrapers fall. They watched WTC-7 burn for hours upon hours.The leaders of the FDNY determined the building and the area around it was not safe and realized a collapse was going to happen. This is why the collaspe zone was created.(and saved lives)

Chief Nigro was in fact correct in his assumption. Right?

So tell me... was he,like Alex Jones stated as "in on it?"

Leaked confidential NIST documents concerning the investigation into the collapse of WTC 7, the 47-storey skyscraper that was not hit by a plane but imploded in under seven seconds on 9/11, reveal that an "unusual" event preceded the collapse of the building - a "jet of flames" that shot out of several windows after most of the fire had already died down.

Leaked NIST Docs

I cant believe that there are people out there who cannot see through the thinly veiled effort to disguise what WTC7 really was, a controlled demolition. I mean, people post evidence where buildings have burned hotter, for longer, and not even come close to collapsing, yet WTC7 can have a medium size fire for a few hours and completely 100% collapse into its foot print in how many seconds?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Let me make it easy for you: Please show me quotes from firefighters or other eyewitnesses that state the fires were not as I have presented with the statements YOU claimed I cherry picked. Besides quotes from EMS soon after the collapse of the towers, I have yet to see any.

Let me get this straight:

There is an unknown amount of fire in the building (even you have to admit your hearsay collection can't be used to re-create the scenario), so that is somehow proof that fire is what ultimately made the building entirely collapse into its own footprint? Can you describe all the logic that's supposed to come in between those two ideas?

There was a policeman at the base of WTC-7 when it started collapsing? Can you please post his testimony?

Craig Bartmer:








Try not to forget this testimony as soon as you leave the page. I know how "forgetful" you "debunkers" are.

Also please provide YOUR definition or that of the policeman's of "base".

Listen to his testimony.

I'm also curious as to the training this officer had in his determining that the building should not have collapsed.

Oh yeah, like the firefighters were any more qualified. When was the last time skyscrapers ever collapsed like this, again?

The FDNY had just witnessed two skyscrapers fall. They watched WTC-7 burn for hours upon hours.The leaders of the FDNY determined the building and the area around it was not safe and realized a collapse was going to happen. This is why the collaspe zone was created.(and saved lives)

That is your opinion.

Chief Nigro was in fact correct in his assumption. Right?

Chief Nigro had been communicating/taking orders all day from the OEM, FEMA, and officials from Rudy Giuliani's office, all watching the entire complex from WTC7's bunker until shortly before WTC1 collapsed.

-- Oh, did I forget to mention they all arrived at that bunker in WTC7 on September 10th? Under the TRIPOD II exercise excuse, which never materialized, only gave them a convenient excuse to be there a day early setting up equipment to make a command center. This is all according to Giuliani's testimony to the Kean Commission, btw.

Giuliani somehow knew the first tower (WTC2) was going to come down when none of the firefighters did. I don't think it's a matter of making assumptions. He knew what was happening. That doesn't mean Chief Nigro was. He didn't have to be.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by bsbray11]

Just another view point of WTC7.... East Side:



I don't know what time this was, but it appears that the collapse zone was not in place yet.

you might want to watch this you tube video

www.youtube.com...

enough damning evidence for a full congressional inquiry. this is still not talked about anywhere in the main stream media. it doesn't take a conspirecy theorist to believe this, it just takes common sense. but i think alot of people in positions of power ,who have wanted to open this investigation back up, have had their lives and the lives of their families threatened.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by jimmyx]

Why do people even bother arguing about WTC 7...it's obvious that it was a controlled demolition....hey and i'll say it again and guess what I'm in the military and will say it once again THE GOVT WAS BEHIND IT!! : )

What floor was it?
I would be interested in knowing as we could then see what agency was set on fire before the explosives.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Let me get this straight:

There is an unknown amount of fire in the building...........

Not quite straight.....
I agree that the amount of fire is not 100% certain. To determine the amount of fire, we look at video & photographic evidence. We also take into account witness statements. Together you draw your conclusion.

I am not saying that fire ALONE caused the collapse. You are also correct, NIST has yet to determine the cause. I am clearly showing folks in here that there were massive fires. I am showing this by showing the evidence that has been available for 6 years.

I am not biased as I have yet to see any evidence to prove that this was a C.D.

Now, in regards to Craig Bartmer. The interview i believe is from Loose Change director Dylan Avery. Lets look at what he says:

"I was really close to building seven when it fell down, and uh, runnin' away from that sucked. That's one of the things I live with all the time. And uh, I don't know but that didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. Uhm, there's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there hearing explosions. I didn't see any reason for that building to fall down the way it did. And a lot of guys should be saying the same thing. Um... I don't know what the fear is in coming out and talking about it. I.. I.. I don't know but that's the truth."

-Craig Bartmer

Does he know what a building sounds like as it is falling?

"...and as I approached, came down, saw the big hub-bub going on around building 7. Walked around it. Saw a hole. I didn't see a hole big enough to knock a building down though."

So, should I assume this man knows what size hole WOULD "Knock down a building?" What size hole did he see?

"I saw, you know, there was definately fire in the building, you know, but ... um, I didn't hear any, and you know maybe this is movie crap, i didn't hear any creaking or i didn't hear any indication that it was going to come down, and all of a sudden the radios exploded and everybody started screaming, "Get away. Get away. Get away from it." and I was like a deer in the headlights. And I look up..... "

So, he is saying he was close enough to the building at the time of the collapse to have heard creaking.

"It was that moment, you know, "Get away", and I looked up... and... it was nothing I would ever imagine seeing in my life. And all the things started peeling in on itself and... I mean, there was an umbrella of crap seven feet over my head that I just stared at. Somebody grabbed my shoulder and I started running and the [explitive]'s hitting the ground behind me and the whole time your hearing "thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom." So. I think I know an explosion when I hear it."

Reading this I am wondering when he states he heard the explosions. He states he was staring at an umbrella of crap until someone grabbed him...THEN as he was running he heard what he states are explosions.

In this interview I can't determine where he was. Unless I missed it.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Try not to forget this testimony as soon as you leave the page. I know how "forgetful" you "debunkers" are.

I won't, as long as you don't forget this:

We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody's going into 7, there's creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

www.firehouse.com...

Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down.

–FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn
graphics8.nytimes.com...

I can easily find many more interviews if you would like. I highly doubt though that they will be taken serioulsy.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Oh yeah, like the firefighters were any more qualified. When was the last time skyscrapers ever collapsed like this, again?

Bsbray, read the interviews the firefighters gave...then watch the interview you posted. Tell me who you would be more likely to listen to in the event of a building on fire with obvioust structural damage.


Continued......

double post

[edit on 25-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by bsbray11
Oh yeah, like the firefighters were any more qualified. When was the last time skyscrapers ever collapsed like this, again?

Just some info on Chief Nigro:

Chief of Department (ret.) Daniel A. Nigro became the 29th Chief to lead the New York City Fire Department on the afternoon of September 11th 2001. A native and life-long resident of Queens County, Chief Nigro entered the Fire Department in 1969 and quickly and steadily rose through the ranks from firefighter to lieutenant, captain, battalion and deputy chief. He was appointed a staff chief in October of 1994. His vast experience includes service in the boroughs of Manhattan, Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn as well as administrative positions. He served as Assistant Chief of Operations where he was responsible for instituting a Certified First Responder Program which brought, for the first time, fire units into New York City’s Emergency Medical Response. He worked on the merger of EMS and FDNY and became the first Chief of EMS in 1996.

From 1997 to 1999 he was a Citywide Tour Commander in charge of fire and emergency management at major incidents throughout the city. As Chief of Operations (the second highest uniformed rank) from 1999-2001, he oversaw the daily management of all FDNY Units. It is in that capacity that he responded to the tragedy of September 11th, assisting in the Incident Command, surviving both collapses and, upon the death of Chief of Department Peter J. Ganci Jr., assuming the role of Incident Commander that afternoon. As Chief of Department, Chief Nigro held the highest uniformed position in the Department during its most difficult days and helped to get the Department back on its feet, ready to protect the citizens of this city. He retired from the Dept. in Sept. of 2002 and was appointed to Fire Commissioner Scoppetta’s Terrorism Advisory Committee.

During Chief Nigro’s career he earned some of the Department’s most honored and prestigious awards including the Fire Commissioner’s Award for Outstanding Service and the Leon Lowenstein Award. He has been recognized for outstanding service and performance by the governments of New York City, New York State, The United States, Italy (The Order of Merit of the Republic – Cavaliere) and France (Fourragere).

Chief Nigro was born in New York City on October 11, 1948 and has resided there all of his life. He holds a Bachelor of Business Administration (1971) from Baruch College. He has lectured at NYU Stern College of Business, Columbia University Graduate Program and been a speaker at many other venues

Hmmmm... who would YOU listen to??

The FDNY had just witnessed two skyscrapers fall. They watched WTC-7 burn for hours upon hours.The leaders of the FDNY determined the building and the area around it was not safe and realized a collapse was going to happen. This is why the collaspe zone was created.(and saved lives)

- Throat Yogurt

Originally posted by bsbray11

That is your opinion.

Not mine... Chief Nigro's:

Release date: September 23, 2007

Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

911guide.googlepages.com...

Chief Nigro had been communicating/taking orders all day from the OEM, FEMA, and officials from Rudy Giuliani's office, all watching the entire complex from WTC7's bunker until shortly before WTC1 collapsed.

oh?

Not to sound condescending, but this argument is silly. The video shows 1 floor on fire. That's all, one floor.

From my point of view, there is no point in arguing the physics of why the towers came down, because regardless of the melting point of steel, there is just no way to prove how much the impact of the planes damaged the structures. Shock is far greater than force, after all. (Yes, I have seen the pics of the cut foundation, but that is neither here nor there for this argument).

Now, I have worked on a few tall buildings. I'm by no means an architectural expert, I work on the piping lines that run through the walls and floors of the buildings. Without exception, there is one thing you notice when you are in the skeleton of a building being constructed, and that is the inches thick fire retardant foam that covers EVERY BIT of the frame of a building. It helps protect the vital framing of the building, as well as helping to prevent fire from spreading through the building at a rapid rate.

Even if the fire seen in this video is a white-hot inferno(which it clearly isn't), there is no possible way that a fire on one floor of a skyscraper could bring the entire thing down. IT HAS NEVER, AND WILL NEVER happen.

You poor people have been hoodwinked and you just refuse to let it go!!!Those buildings were nothing more than a diversion so you would look away from the ACTUAL event that took place. Look up Phil Schneider and the USAF MAZER project. Then you will KNOW what brought the all 3 buildings down. There is NO way that you could get enough explosives into the buildings to bring them down in a state of "PULVERIZATION". Those buildings turned to DUST starting at t he top. Yes, SOME explosives were strategicly placed in core columns but that is seen from the "plumes" on the videos.
FIRE DOES NOT MELT CONCRETE COVERED REINFORCED STEEL REBAR!!!!...period!. If you took the jetliner and turned it around backwards and let the jets engine run at full blast against the columns of the buildings, they STILL would not have failed in the manner they did.
Go ask your local WELDER to show you how long it takes him to warm up steel column (24") material just so he can cut it. Ask him to show you what a plasma torch cut looks like. Someone either cut the columns in the basement with a plasma torch or they used thermite to blow them. Proof is in the glorious pictures of our wonderful firefighters removing debris. Look at the cut on the columns. Thermite.
Ask yourself this question. At what point does steel STOP melting? Because it either all melts into a pool of molten metal or it stops somewhere. You can do this nifty experiment with a candle!!!
I challenge each of you that believe the official 911 story to this: Go fill your car up with gasoline. Find a 20' wide by 10 story tall building in your area. Run your car into it at 100 mph. Do you know what is gonna happen?................Nothing!!!! It is the same scale as WTC and you will do MINIMAL damage. I'll bet they don't even feel the shockwave on the 3rd floor.
You people are playing into this WAR/Terrorist theory just the way that it was planned. Idiocy is bliss!!! Tell them enough b.s. and they will start to believe it. Keep staring at that TV and eating those twinkies and let CNN TELL you what is really going on. Keep listening to this obviously retarted man called President, that tells you that GOD told him to go rid the area of "turrurists". Keep letting the Bush war family (all the way from Prescott...do your homework) make their millions by keeping this country at war. You are gonna be broke and hungry and confused in a couple of months and then you be BEGGING the gubment to help you out. That is their plan and you refuse to see the truth. You want to feel SOOO smart by belting out your uneducated diatribe about "this or that" is the way it happened and you have NO clue as to the truth.
Okay....so I posted anonymously..so what! I am sick and tierd of having to "sign up" for every site I want to put my 2 cents worth in at. I am tired of giving out information that is no ones business just to view some info. I am tired of banks and hospitals and grocery stores asking for my SSN # , just so I can have my identity stolen 4 months later. All of this is a planned obsolescence and it is going perfectly according to plans. You will see soon enough.
$10.00 gas...What will YOU do?
$8.00 loaf of bread..What will you do?
No water to be had...What will you do?
Depend on yourself and stop relying on the gubment you are paying dearly for. Remember, THEY are YUOR employees. Fire them if they don't do their jobs.!!!!
One last thing. What makes me qualified to discuss the design and failure of the WTC's?
I designed multi story buildings for over 15 years. As an A.E. Consultant, we did about 52 buildings in that time frame. I have never seen a building "FAIL" unless it was a controlled failure or demolition.
Those buildings were brought down by MAZER/Lazer technology that the USAF has had for 20 years. Check out Phil Schneider on Youtube or google video and listen to him talk about the building of underground tunnels and how they "pulverized" solid rock...

seeya,
keep questioning !!

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Why are you wasting Your time, trying to Fool people?
We have shown you enough proof, explosives brought down WTC7.
Why dont YOU explain how WTC7 fell down, all by it self with out the help of man.

PLEASE EXPLAIN?
I f you think showing us, some old news footage, is some sort of proof that WTC7 fell all by it self will make us truthers believe in the Government Lies You are sadly mistaken.

If anything it proves WTC7 was NOT ingulf in flames. just some of the floors and only in part of the building.

Not the whole building.

You have not show us any proof of anything!

911 was an inside job!
No airplane hit WTC7
911 was an inside job!

Bush LIED us in to a war
911 was an inside job!

Bush and Chaney stone wall every 911 investigation that was started.
911 was an inside job!

The media has lied to America.
911 was an inside job!

NIST Report was a white wash, a joke and very much proven wrong.
NIST has a law Suit file againce them for Lieing.
911 was an inside job!

The war was for OIL !
Now we are paying over $4 at the pump for a gallon of gas!

A war of Lies, nothing but lies!

Our Government has lost thier way, they are profiting off this war!

Our Pesident has LIED over and over and over and over...
911 was an inside job!

The WTC where brought down by explosives, NOT by airplanes.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

IMPEACHMENT off the table!

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Again you post eyewitnesses saying the building was "fully engulfed". Should I really listen to a fireman who doesn't know what a "fully engulfed" building looks like?

to ThroatYogurt :
dis-info agents cannot distract people who follow their hearts and minds, not their wallets anymore. There is more than enough proof for any person with a clear unbiased mind to see through the smoke and mirrors. We have been had...

I have read these boards since 2002, and now feel the urge to post. No steel building in HISTORY has ever collapsed because of fire, ever. You cannot change the laws of physics, unless YOU are the creator of this universe.
I work around mechanics and welders all day long. They have all said there is no way you can soften, let alone melt HARDENED steel with an open free burning fire for 1-2 hours. If you pile office chairs, computers and paper together and burn them, even adding jet fuel to the mix you will still not get the temps needed to even begin to soften hardened steel.

You can bad mouth me, try to debunk me, even question my training and intelligence but that wont change the facts.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Not mine... Chief Nigro's:

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner,

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

911guide.googlepages.com...

"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department Commander telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said, you know we’ve had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is ‘pull it’. And they made that decision to pull. And then we watched the building collapse."

Larry Silverstein PBS interview.

Who's the liar here?

Funny thing about lies. You have to remember what lie you've told to whom and about whom.

Do you find this info contradictory in the least?

[edit on 6/25/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by cashlink
Why are you wasting Your time, trying to Fool people?
We have shown you enough proof, explosives brought down WTC7.
Why dont YOU explain how WTC7 fell down, all by it self with out the help of man.

OMG! Really? you have shown me proof!!?

Why show me? You should be heading to CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC,BBC, NATO, the UN... your local authorities..

Why am i so special?

Oh BTW... man did help bring down WTC-7. Actually men.... 19 of them