WTC-7 North Side MASSIVE Fires .... CBS News

ok ...I see a building(7) with a few floors on fire...
now...just what EXACTLY caused this building to
completely collapse into its own footprint?

cause it sure wasn`t caused from that fire I see.....NO WAY BOB

oh I forgot to say that It sure didn`t take long to
BUST this thread ....

once again the Truth Movement has kicked the butts of the skeptics/debunkers/shills .

911 truth scores 100
911 debunkers score 0

N.W.O...new world order is starting to become the old world odor..
and needs to be thrown out with yesterdays rotten trash.

this thread was brought to you by the great people at
Larry (Pull-It) Silverstein).

What happen to the Sprinkler System in the WTC7 to put out the
fires on those floors.

Also, the fire department had plenty of time to put out the fires. Were
talking about a building that housed alot of government agencies.

And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time. We could see it. ... the fire at 7 World Trade was working its way from the front of the building northbound to the back of the building. There was no way there could be water put on it, because there was no water in the area. –Firefighter Eugene Kelty Jr.

The 7 World Trade Center was roaring. All we could think is we were an Engine Company, we have got to get them some water. We need some water you know. With that, we positioned the rig, I don't know, 3 quarters of a block away maybe. A fire boat was going to relay water to us. I don't know if I have things in the right order, whatever, if we were getting water out of a hydrant first. Jesus Christ --
Q. Captain said you were getting water. You were draining a vacuum?
A. It was draining away from us. Right. We had to be augmented. I think that's when the fire boat came. I think the fire boats supplied us. Of course you don't see that. You just see the (inaudible) way and you know, we are hooking up and we wound up supplying the Tower Ladder there. I just remember feeling like helpless, like everybody there was doomed and there is -- I just felt like there was absolutely nothing we could do. I want to just go back a little bit.–Firefighter Kevin Howe

The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 had cut the water mains in the area, there
was not water to feed the sprinkler system or standpipes inside the
building. FDNY had to run hose out to fireboats in the Hudson river
to provide water to the scene. Doing so takes a lot of time and manpower
Combine this with tremendous casualties and damage to fire apparatus
from collapse of WTC 1/2 and can understand why FDNY chiefs had
to abandon WTC 7 - heavy structural damage, no water, tremendous
loss of life and equipment.

My OP CLEARLY states the NORTH side. You know... the side where MOST truthers claim there wasn't ANY fire or damage? We already know that the South side was raging with many floors on fire. We also know this to be a fact by the MANY firefighters statements and other EMS.

You want to call antire floors on fire as "puny?" Well.. thats typical behavior of the folks with paranoid personalities. Anything that goes AGAINST what they WANT to believe will get poo poo'd.

I love how "truthers" are keeping score. I laughed at that response. You see if there were a score it would be this:

Evidence on 911

911 Truthers: 0
911 Realists: 45,345,980



Griff, I do know that there wasnt any steel recovered. Good point. I will look into it!

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
And dont give me the diesel argument we been thru that a million times.. FEMA STATED IT GOT ALL THE FUEL OUT.

I've seen that claim many times and it's a bit of disinfo based on an incomplete quote.

FEMA stated that the fuel from the Silverstein tanks was all recovered but that amounts to approximately half the fuel stored on site. The fuel from the Salomon Bros tanks was not recovered or even found along with all the 'day tanks' on the generator floors.

From the testimony of Dr S Shyam Sunder of NIST:

NIST reviewed the report of an environmental contractor hired in the months after the collapse of WTC 7 to recover remaining fuel and mitigate any environmental damage from the second system’s two 6,000 gal tanks. The tanks were damaged and appeared to be empty and the report stated that neither the underground storage tanks nor their associated piping contained any residual petroleum product. No residual free product or sludge was observed in either underground storage tank. Evidence suggests that this fuel did not leak into the underground soil and contaminate it, and, therefore, could have been consumed in the building.

I'm still on the fence with regard to the WTC7 collapse and after seeing some pics taken during construction (posted by bsbray11) I'm certain there were no observed explosions large enough to dismantle such a massive steel structure. If it was deliberate it was something other than explosives.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
My OP CLEARLY states the NORTH side. You know... the side where MOST truthers claim there wasn't ANY fire or damage?

I wasn't aware that anyone made that claim, let alone MOST truthers.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
We already know that the South side was raging with many floors on fire. We also know this to be a fact by the MANY firefighters statements and other EMS.

Can you post the evidence of fires raging on many floors on the South side. I've seen numerous videos (like the one below) and photos that show some intense but not extensive fires on a few floors at most.



You do not comment on the testimony of the Deputy Director of Emergency Services who was in the best possible vantage point to witness what was occurring in WTC 7. He and Michael Hess spent more time than anyone inside the building that day and he talks not of raging fires but massive explosions.

You still haven't explained why you think fires could cause steel framed towers to implode.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by EvilAxis


Evil,

There is another thread showing pictures from 911. Two members on that thread alone state that the North side was in "prestine" condition. This is why I started this thread. To show that there were fire and damage on the north side.

I would like you to read a few quotes from the people that were around WTC7:

The building was fully involved in fire.

– Photographer Steve Spak

We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors.

–FDNY Lieutenant Robert LaRocca

...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down.

–FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor, heavy fire and smoke that really wasn’t bothering us when we were searching because it was being pushed southeast and we were a little bit west of that. I remember standing just where West and Vesey start to rise toward the entrance we were using in the World Financial Center. There were a couple of guys standing with me and a couple of guys right at the intersection, and we were trying to back them up – and here goes 7. It started to come down and now people were starting to run.

–FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti
www.firehouse.com...

All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members.

–Firefighter Marcel Klaes

When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories.

–FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers
Smith, Dennis, 2002. Report From Ground Zero: The Heroic Story of the Rescuers at the World Trade Center. New York: Penguin Putnam. p. 160

The whole south side of Seven World Trade had been hit by the collapse of the second Tower, and there was fire on every floor."

– Fire Captain Brenda Berkman
(Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 213)

"When I got out and onto a clear pile, I see that 7 World Trade Center and the customs house have serious fire. Almost every window has fire. It is an amazing site.

–Captain Jay Jonas, Ladder 6.
(Dennis Smith. Report From Ground Zero. New York: Viking Penguin, 2002. P. 103)

"The other building, #7, was fully involved, and he was worried about the next collapse."

-Firefighter TJ Mundy
(Dennis Smith. Report From Ground Zero. New York: Viking Penguin, 2002.)

7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved. It was unbelievable.

–Firefighter Steve Modica www.firehouse.com...

So I attempted to get in through the Barkley Street ramp which is on Barkley (sic) and West Broadway, but I was being held back by the fire department, because 7 World Trade, which is above the ramp, was now fully engulfed.

PAPD K-9 Sergeant David Lim www.911report.com...

Originally posted by EvilAxis
You do not comment on the testimony of the Deputy Director of Emergency Services who was in the best possible vantage point to witness what was occurring in WTC 7. He and Michael Hess spent more time than anyone inside the building that day and he talks not of raging fires but massive explosions.

You are talking about Barry Jennings I assume. If you look at the timeline of the events, you will see that Jennings was inside WTC7 during the North Tower collapse.

12:10-12:15

However, firefighters find three individuals who have become trapped inside it. Among them are Barry Jennings, a City Housing Authority worker, and Mike Hess, New York’s chief lawyer who is also a longtime friend of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. The two had gone up to the 23rd floor headquarters of the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management some time before 10 a.m., but found it empty. (It was evacuated at 9:30 a.m.; see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001.) They headed downstairs but became trapped around the sixth floor by smoke and debris that filled the staircase as a result of the North Tower collapsing at 10:28 a.m.

www.cooperativeresearch.org...

Tell me how he would know what was going on in WTC-7... 1, 2, ....5 hours later. He was no where NEAR WTC 7 after he was rescued.


[edit on 25-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
You want to call antire floors on fire as "puny?" Well.. thats typical behavior of the folks with paranoid personalities. Anything that goes AGAINST what they WANT to believe will get poo poo'd.

Look who's talking. You're the only one in this thread who seems to be paranoid.

You are missing some key factors here, real simple ones too. The entire building wasn't on fire, so why did the entire building collapse? Fires were not hot enough to melt the steel. Yet this ENTIRE building collapsed. It wasn't just a few floors and the rest of the building came tumbling after, it was a global collapse. And until me and the rest of the "paranoid personalities" who don't agree with the official story see evidence on how those fires caused that, we aren't going to believe in the fairy tale that you do.

Even an old woman like me knows that such fires can't bring down such structures.

My suspicion is that the extraordinary need to hold on to an image of the USA government as spotless and wholesome is far greater than the ability to look squarely at reality.

No amount of evidence that fires alone do not bring down such buildings will ever convince those who need to believe that Muslim terrorists were responsible so the wars against Afghanistan and Iraq were justified. The far-right true believers need to keep this fiction foremost as they plan to sieze Iranian oil fields under the pretext of ending nuclear ambitions.

To all you debunkers who have OBVIOUSLY not searched for evidence that WTC 7 was a controlled demolition, watch this video of Silverstein himself, in HIS OWN WORDS!! and then hide yourselves in shame!!www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by xstevenx

You are missing some key factors here, real simple ones too. The entire building wasn't on fire, so why did the entire building collapse? Fires were not hot enough to melt the steel. Yet this ENTIRE building collapsed. It wasn't just a few floors and the rest of the building came tumbling after, it was a global collapse. And until me and the rest of the "paranoid personalities" who don't agree with the official story see evidence on how those fires caused that, we aren't going to believe in the fairy tale that you do.

Please show me some evidence to refute that of the MANY firefighters and other people that were witness to WTC7 in the afternoon. Who said the fires melted ANY steel?

If you need to, scroll up a few posts and you will see a rather large list of eyewitnesses.

Originally posted by sayzaar
To all you debunkers who have OBVIOUSLY not searched for evidence that WTC 7 was a controlled demolition, watch this video of Silverstein himself, in HIS OWN WORDS!! and then hide yourselves in shame!!

www.youtube.com...

OBVIOULSY you think that a man who was smart enough to assist in the planning of 911 is STUPID enough to admit it on a documentary.

Sorry Sayzaar...the "pull it" comment has been rehashed here at least 200 times.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Even an old woman like me knows that such fires can't bring down such structures.

My suspicion is that the extraordinary need to hold on to an image of the USA government as spotless and wholesome is far greater than the ability to look squarely at reality.

No amount of evidence that fires alone do not bring down such buildings will ever convince those who need to believe that Muslim terrorists were responsible so the wars against Afghanistan and Iraq were justified. The far-right true believers need to keep this fiction foremost as they plan to sieze Iranian oil fields under the pretext of ending nuclear ambitions.

your rant seems aimed at the United States current administration. That administration is not one that I support. I for one am a bleeding heart liberal.

Oh, and please supply said evidence that shows your theory regarding WTC-7 . I'm sure even a woman "as old as dirt" knows what evidence is.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Please show me some evidence to refute that of the MANY firefighters and other people that were witness to WTC7 in the afternoon.

Please point out the "fully engulfed" fires on the south side.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I see one area where the flames are shooting out the windows on the southwest corner but no visible flames on the south side.

Shouldn't be hard to spot with all the firemen saying the building was "fully engulfed" right? So, where's the fire? I see a lot of smoke but no flames shooting out the windows on the south facade.



Can you show me this "fully engulfed" building because I'm having a hard time seeing any flames. Thanks.

[edit on 6/25/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff


BTW Griff that snoke in that pic is not from WTC7 but from the collapse of WTC1.

Remember my thread here, where I debunked the WTC 7 smoke?...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suggest the de-bunkers take a look...Here is an excerpt...

*Warning large pics.






(This is from FEMA)

It is worth emphasizing that 20,000 gallons (of a maximum of 23,200 gallons) where recovered intact from the two 12,000-gallon Silverstein tanks. So, it is probable that the 20,000 gallons recovered was all of the oil in the tanks at that time. Since the oil in the Silverstein tanks survived, we can surmise that there was no fire on the ground floor.

Note that the size of a 12,000 gallon tank would be a little less than 12 feet by 12 feet by 12 feet (if built as a cube).

Source

So the diesel fuel had no significant effect on the fire obviously.

WTC 7 was designed to stop the spread of fire by compartmentalization…

Concrete floor slabs provided vertical compartmentalization to limit fire and smoke spread between floors (see Figure 5-11). Architectural drawings indicate that the space between the edge of the concrete floor slab and curtain wall, which ranged from 2 to 10 inches, was to be filled with fire-stopping material.



A zoned smoke control system was present in WTC 7. This system was designed to pressurize the floors above and below the floor of alarm, and exhaust the floor of alarm to limit smoke and heat spread.

So how did the fires manage to engulf the whole building? If you put this together with the images we have of the building, logic should tell you the fires were not raging as we are led to believe.

WTC 7, 6.5 seconds into its collapse. Where are the raging fires?


Edited to add pics.

[edit on 25/6/2008 by ANOK]

would a physics Professor be qualified to find WTC 7 defying the laws of physics?
Prof. Steven Jones - Bringham Young University Physics Professor
www.youtube.com...

or, as the title of this youtube clip suggests,
9/11 SCHOLARS USE UNPATRIOTIC SCIENCE TO PROVE INSIDE JOB
www.youtube.com...

Does "unpatriotic" have a new definition? is it the opposite of this?

patriotic:
Patriotic \Pa`tri*ot"ic\, a. [Cf. F. patriotique, Gr.
patriwtiko`s belonging to a fellow-countryman.]
Inspired by patriotism; actuated by love of one's country;
zealously and unselfishly devoted to the service of one's
country; as, a patriotic statesman, vigilance.
[1913 Webster]

maybe this would be more fitting:

Patriotism:
From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY ((C)1911 Released April 15 1993) :

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one
ambitious to illuminate his name.
In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the
last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened
but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

Wouldn't patriotism be a better word in that title? maybe add in lieu of..

9/11 SCHOLARS USE PATRIOTISM IN LIEU OF SCIENCE TO PROVE INSIDE JOB

Yes ,..that would be better.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Please show me some evidence to refute that of the MANY firefighters and other people that were witness to WTC7 in the afternoon.

Why does hearsay need to be refuted? You know what hearsay is, right? Not evidence.

I can post testimony from a NYPD officer who was at the base of WTC7 when it started collapsing, and he said explosions ripped through its bottom-most floors to start bringing it down. He also said he saw all the damage to the South face earlier, and that it was definitely not enough to cause the entire building to begin falling simultaneously. What's the difference between testimonies like this, and the guy trapped inside of WTC7, and your cherry-picked testimonies from various people standing at a distance? You are biased towards thinking one thing, and so were the people you pick to cite. They had just undergone an extremely traumatic set of events. They had absolutely no precedent and therefore no training or qualifications to be able to look at WTC7 and say what brought it down or how much damage had actually been done. Hell, NIST has been looking at it for years and still can't tell us what happened! Hello?!

Hearsay = not evidence.

reply to post by Griff


Griff,

What time is that video taken? Just curious.

Thanks.

reply to post by ANOK


Anok...

Please watch the video again. Please explain to me how this smoke was coming from the collapses.