Is Yashua(Jesus) God ?????

seriously, does anyone read what i post?

ALL this is already gone over in the in the trinity thread

The trinity is a myth, fable, story....whatever you want to call it. It's how a Pagan organization tries to pass itself off as Christian.


God is God!

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


i knew this day would come

*relishes in the moment*

we agree on something

reply to post by GJIML
jesus was the son of god by being a direct creation of him but he is god by having the sme atributes etc he is a copy of the real thing so he is seperate but the same thing but on earth he emptied himself in divinity so was made lower than the angels even

so yes he is God in essense and spirit as john the baptist and elisha were elijah in spirit and power

but i think we should understand what worship is when saying we shouldnt do so to jesus look it up

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


Great that you are the Pagan Police.
I did not know I was a pagan.
The fact that there are people worshiping other gods is indicative of the fact that there are other gods.
Are you insane?
you missed my point.
If you say a rock is god, and you worship it, that rock is a god.
If you make a statue of a god and build a Temple around it and have priests serving the god, surprise, it is a god.
How can you not understand that?

What is the purpose of quoting Wiki?
Read the Bible.

Jesus is a god that fits into a society of gods with the Almighty God as head. This could be a congress of gods - each with a role and at times an agenda (like Satan).

I believe that this is far more plausible and acceptable than a 3-1 theory. It also makes for a more individual understanding and relationship with us... being made in their image. I like the free will and division in personalities that we find in heavenly congress as it explains so much as to why we are, the way we are.

jesus stated that when a man and woman are married then they become one flesh,2 separate people,but one in flesh,life partners....i believe this to be with jesus and god...they are seperate but they are one,in matthew when jesus was baptized by john the baptist,they saw a dove and heard god say this is my son whom i am well pleased with....when jesus prayed was he praying to himself...no.he didnt deny being god because they are one....he also said...why do you call me good when noone but god is good.i dont believe jesus is necassarily who we pray to,but who we pray through...or in the name of.

The teaching of Jesus is "a" god comes from the Jehovah's Witnesses which is contradictory to the writings of the Bible. They have their own version of the Bible called the "New World Translation".

They deliberately change and distort the original John 1:1 :

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

Original KJV, RSV, NIV writes "the Word was God". God with the capital "G".

Read about Jehovah's Witnesses teachings here and see how they twist and turn the scriptures:

www.carm.org...
www.carm.org...

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

The Watchtower organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a non-Christian organization that uses its people to promulgate false doctrines, and collects "contributions" for distribution of a multitudinous amount of literature, and expand its grip into the lives of its members and their families.

It is a non-Christian cult.

On top of that, the Jehovah's Witnesses have occultic symbolism in its religion:

Now you can actually see Russell's gravestone, there it is: 'Charles Russell, born February 16th 1852, died October 31st 1916 - the Laodecian Messenger'; but just beside Charles Taze Russell's grave is a monument to him which takes the form of a pyramid. There's actually an inscription on that pyramid in dedication to him, because that's where his theology came from, from a pyramid which is pagan, we could go as far as to say it's occultic in its origination.

www.preachtheword.co.uk...

Charles Taze Russell (February 16, 1852 - October 31, 1916), better known as Pastor Russell, was a widely recognised Protestant minister of the early 20th century, who founded the religion known today as Jehovah's Witnesses.

en.wikipedia.org...

Pastor Russell's Pyramid Gravestone. The pyramid below is on the Watchtower Society’s "family" grave site. Charles T. Russell's grave is just a few feet to the west. It is believed many of his books were buried in the pyramid. Note the "cross crown" Masonic symbol at the top.

www.cephasministry.com...

The pyramid above is the Watchtower Society / Jehovah's Witnesses Pyramid which belongs to freemasonry.



At close up, you'll see another occultic symbol of freemasonry - the cross within the crown.

A former Mason writes:

"The York Rite jewelry--the Templar symbol--is a large Maltese cross with a circle in the center. Inside the circle is a red Latin cross within a crown. Around the arms of the cross is the Commandery motto, 'In Hoc Signo Vinces.' (In this sign, conquer!)"

"Although this may seem harmless enough, the motto is originally attributed to the emperor Constantine, who used it in conjunction with a supposedly heavenly vision to begin the subversion of Biblical Christianity into the false, apostate Alexandrian cult..." Burns, p. 350

....

If they claim to be true Christians, what is the pagan pyramid and the cross crown occultic symbol doing there? Not only did they have these satanic symbols, they twist and distort biblical scriptures in order to deceive and lie.

reply to post by amitheone


i share your views here,but this thread title is jesus god.regardless of the jehovas witnesses point of view,i think many religions twist things alot.not just one.

Originally posted by amitheone
The teaching of Jesus is "a" god comes from the Jehovah's Witnesses which is contradictory to the writings of the Bible. They have their own version of the Bible called the "New World Translation".

They deliberately change and distort the original John 1:1 :

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

Original KJV, RSV, NIV writes "the Word was God". God with the capital "G".

first off im not a JW. second, i dont use the "New World Translation", and third, posting a few articles that say bad things about them doesnt change the fact that they are right.

kjv, rsv, niv are not the "original versions". kjv version for one changes a few sciptures and even adds a scripture to do the exact thing you accuse the JW's of. my entire argument is based on looking at the original greek, so why you are bringing up JW's is beyond me

do you homework first. study the greek. stop throwing around irrelevant accusations.

the fact of the matter is, you cannot argue the grammatical construction of john 1:1 in ancient greek.

an excerpt about the mistranslation of john1:1 (note that other bibles translation it correctly, not just NWT)

Another verse quoted in defense of the "Trinity" is the verse of John 1:1 :

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

When I first learned of this verse it appeared to me that I had finally found my elusive goal. However, after substantial research into Christian theological literature, I would later come to learn that this verse too can not be interpreted to justify a "triune" God. My own experience has shown that this verse is the one most popularly quoted by most Christians in defense of the Trinity. For this reason I shall spend a little more time in it's analysis than in the analysis of the other verses.

First of all, it is quite obvious from simply reading the above verse that even in the very best case, this verse speaks only of a "Duality" not a "Trinity." Even the most resolute conservative Christian will never claim to find in this verse any mention whatsoever of a "merging" of a Holy Ghost with God and "the Word." So even if we were to accept this verse at face value and just have faith, even then, we find ourselves commanded to believe in a "Duality" and not a "Trinity." But let us see if this verse does in fact even command us to believe in a "Duality." To do this we need to notice the following points:

1) Mistranslation of the text:

In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?), "The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine" (If you read the New World Translation of the Bible you will find exactly this wording).

Similarly, in "The New Testament, An American Translation" this verse is honestly presented as

"In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine."

The New Testament, An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

And again in the dictionary of the Bible, under the heading of "God" we read

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [=the Father], and the word was a divine being.'"

The Dictionary of the Bible by John McKenzie, Collier Books, p. 317

In yet another Bible we read:

"The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine"

The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, by Dr. James Moffatt

Please also see "The Authentic New Testament" by Hugh J. Schonfield and many others.

If we look at a different verse, 2 Corinthians 4:4, we find the exact same word (ho theos) that was used in John 1:1 to describe God Almighty is now used to describe the devil, however, now the system of translation has been changed:

"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."

According to the system of the previous verse and the English language, the translation of the description of the Devil should also have been written as "The God" with a capital "G." If Paul was inspired to use the exact same words to describe the Devil, then why should we change it? Why is "The God" translated as simply "the god" when referring to the devil, while "divine" is translated as the almighty "God" when referring to "The Word"? Are we now starting to get a glimpse of how the "translation" of the Bible took place?

Well, what is the difference between saying "the word was God," and between saying "the word was a god (divine)"? Are they not the same? Far from it! Let us read the bible:

"I have said, Ye (the Jews) are gods; and all of you are children of the most High"

Psalms 82:6:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh"

Exodus 7:1

"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."

2 Corinthians 4:4

What does all of this mean? Let me explain.

In the West, it is common when one wishes to praise someone to say "You are a prince," or "You are an angel" ..etc. When someone says this do they mean that that person is the son of the King of England, or a divine spiritual being? There is a very slight grammatical difference between saying "You are a prince" and between saying "You are THE prince," however, the difference in meaning is quite dramatic.

Further, it is necessary when translating a verse to also take into account the meaning as understood by the people of that age who spoke that language. One of the biggest problems with the Bible as it stands today is that it forces us to look at ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures through Greek and Latin glasses as seen by people who are neither Jews, Greeks, nor Romans. All of the so called "original" manuscripts of the NT available today are written in Greek or Latin. The Jews had no trouble reading such verses as Psalms 82:6, and Exodus 7:1, while still affirming that there is only one God in existence and vehemently denying the divinity of all but God Almighty. It is the continuous filtration of these manuscripts through different languages and cultures as well as the Roman Catholic church's extensive efforts to completely destroy all of the original Hebrew Gospels (see last quarter of this chapter) which has led to this misunderstanding of the verses.

The Americans have a saying: "Hit the road men." It means "It is time for you to leave." However, if a non-American were to receive this command without any explanation then it is quite possible that we would find him beating the road with a stick. Did he understand the words? Yes! Did he understand the meaning? No!

In the Christian church we would be hard pressed to find a single priest or nun who does not address their followers as "my children." They would say: "Come here my children", or "Be wary of evil my children" ... etc. What do they mean?

A fact that many people do not realize is that around 200AD spoken Hebrew had virtually disappeared from everyday use as a spoken language. It was not until the 1880s that a conscious effort was made by Eliezer Ben-Yehudah to revive the dead language. Only about a third of current spoken Hebrew and basic grammatical structures come from biblical and Mishnaic sources. The rest was introduced in the revival and includes elements of other languages and cultures including the Greek and Arabic languages.

Even worse than these two examples are cases when translation into a different languages can result in a reversal of the meaning. For example, in the West, when someone loves something they say "It warmed my heart." In the Middle East, the same expression of joy would be conveyed with the words: "It froze my heart." If an Mideasterner were to greet a Westerner with the words: "It froze my heart to see you," then obviously this statement would not be greeted with a whole lot of enthusiasm from that Westerner, and vice versa. This is indeed one of the major reasons why the Muslims have been so much more successful in the preservation of their holy text than the Christians or the Jews; because the language of the Qur'an has remained from the time of Muhammad (pbuh) to the present day a living language, the book itself has always been in the hands of the people (and not the "elite"), and the text of the book remains in the original language of Muhammad (pbuh). For this reason, a translator must not and should not "translate" in a vacuum while disregarding the culture and traditions of the people who wrote these words. As we have just seen, it was indeed quite common among the Jews to use the word "god" (divine) to convey a sense of supreme power or authority to human beings. This system, however, was never popularly adopted by them to mean that these individuals were in any way omnipotent, superhuman, or equal to the Almighty.

As one may notice, too much emphasis and stress is put on John 1:1 as if it is the only verse in the Bible which points and supports that Jesus is God.

Neglecting the other verses in the Bible leads to an erroneous understanding of the scriptures. One should not read the context of one chapter only, but rather, one should read the whole context according to all relevant and parallel chapters combined in the Old Testament and the New Testament so that one will have a better, more comprehensive and accurate understanding of the scriptures.

Now I've already explained thoroughly that Jesus is God in my previous post according to the whole context of relevant chapters of the OT and NT.

Let us put John 1:1 to the test whether the translation of "The word was *a god*" is a correct rendition of the verse. Let us use the scriptures instead to verify its correctness and accuracy.


A) Jesus was equal with God

John 5:18 - For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

....

Jesus was equal with God. If Jesus was just a god, then this verse is false as Jesus has equal standing with God according to the verse.

B) Jesus is the very nature God

Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (KJV)

....

Jesus is the very nature God. If Jesus was just a god, then how can he be the very nature God? Being in the very nature God is equal with God and Jesus did not consider it a robbery. If Jesus was a just a god, then this verse is false.

C) God the Father calls His Son “God”

Hebrews 1: 8 - But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

....

God the Father calls His Son “God”. If Jesus was just a god, then the Father himself is in error, because He addresses Jesus, the Son as His “God”, exalted like the Father. Then, this verse is false according to the context “Jesus is just a god”.

D) Jesus is called “God with us”

Matthew 1:23 - "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

....

Jesus was called God with us. If Jesus was just a god, then this verse is false and should read “A god is with us”.

E) Jesus and the Father are one.

John 10:30 - I and the Father are one."

....

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false because Jesus put himself as the same level with God the Father.

F) Jesus has the same glory as the Father

Isaiah 42:8 - "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

John 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

....

Reading the two verses above, the Lord will not give glory to another. But Jesus has the same glory as the Father. Since Jesus and the Father are one, they have the same glory and they will not give glory to another. If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false for “a god” cannot have the glory of the God the Father.

G) God says to have no other gods before Him

Exodus 20:3 - You shall have no other gods before me.

....

God the Father calls Jesus His God. Jesus and the Father are one. One God. If Jesus is just a god, then both the Father and the Son breaks the Ten Commandments for God says to have no other gods before Him.

H) Jesus is God Almighty

Revelation 1:7 - Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

....

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false because it says, Jesus is God Almighty.

I) Jesus is God overall

Romans 9:5 - Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

....

If Jesus is a just a god, then this verse should read “who is a god over all”.

J) Jesus is our Great God

Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

....

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false as it should read, “appearing of our lesser god and savior, Jesus Christ.”

K) God laid down his life for us

1 John 3:16 - Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. (KJV)

....

Who laid down his life for us? Jesus. If Jesus is just a god, then this verse should read, “the love of a god”.

L) Thomas said, “My Lord and my God!”

John 20 - 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

....

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false as it should read, “my lesser lord and my lesser god”.

....

I can carry on till Z, if I want to. Now, if you were to take the translation as “The Word (Jesus) was a god”, then you have to throw the whole Bible away and preserve 5 words consisting of 14 letters only – “The Word was a god” in favor of the correctness of the Greek translation in your version which is very much questionable and refutable. It makes for a cheaper and thinner Bible by the way. lol

... continue

John's inspired writings and those of his fellow disciples show what the true idea is, namely, the Word or Logos is not God or the God, but is the Son of God, and hence is a god. That is why, at John 1:1,2, the apostle refers to God as the God and to the Word or Logos as a god, to show the difference between the Two.
Is this the proper translation?
No. The equation underlying the Witness rendering breaks down within a few verses. John 1:18 contains theos twice, without “the” either time. According to Watchtower assumptions, we would expect to translate both as “god” or “a god.” Instead, the New World Translation says "God" the first time and "god" the second time. The context overrules their rule.
Why did John choose not to put “the” on the word “God”?
1. To show which word was the subject of the sentence. In English, we can recognize the subject of a sentence by looking at word order. In Greek, we must look at the word endings. John 1:1 is trickier than most verses, because both “God” (theos) and “Word” (logos) have the same ending. The usual way to mark off the subject clearly was to add “the” to the subject and leave it off the direct object. That is precisely what John did here.
2. To conform to standard Greek grammar. E.C. Colwell demonstrated in an article in the Journal of Biblical Literature in 1933 that it was normal practice to omit "the" in this type of sentence. John was simply using good grammar, and making it clear that he intended to say, “The Word was God” rather than “God was the Word,” a statement with some theological drawbacks. John constructed his sentence in the one way that would preserve proper grammar and sound doctrine, declaring that “the Word was God.”

Author: Dr. John Bechtle

Grammatically, there are three possible ways to interpret in this verse:
• definite
"And the word was God" - the translation found in most traditional Bibles.
• indefinite
"And the word was a god"
• qualitative
"And the word was divine"
Since Greek grammar permits each of these meanings, you have to look at the context and the belief system of the writer in order to understand which meaning is most likely. Given John's understandings of Jesus and of God, it is very unlikely that he would have said that Jesus was "a god".
www.ibiblio.org...

Greek scholars are in general agreement that the wording "The Word was God" or "the Word was divine" is the correct way to understand the last clause of John 1:1. Competent scholarship does not support the argument that the lack of a definite article in a predicate nominative indicates an indefinite reference. "To say that the absence of the article bespeaks of the nonabsolute deity of the Word is sheer folly. There are many places in this Gospel where the anarthrous [used without the article] theos appears (e.g., 1:6, 12, 13, 18), and not once is the implication that this is referring to just 'a god’" [Expositor’s Bible Commentary, Frank E. Gaebelein, editor, volume 9, page 30].

How many Bible translations that exist today which says, “The Word was God”?

New American Standard, American Standard Version, English Standard Version, New King James Version, King James Version, Holman Christian Standard Bible, Third Millennium Bible, New International Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard, Revised Standard Version, Good News Translation, Douay-Rheims Bible, The Jerusalem Bible, Challoner-Douay Version.

A) Jesus was equal with God

John 5:18 - For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus was equal with God. If Jesus was just a god, then this verse is false as Jesus has equal standing with God according to the verse.

john 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

john 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

maybe john 5:18 is simply stating what the jews thought he was saying... because jesus himself says something different.

B) Jesus is the very nature God

Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (KJV)

Jesus is the very nature God. If Jesus was just a god, then how can he be the very nature God? Being in the very nature God is equal with God and Jesus did not consider it a robbery. If Jesus was a just a god, then this verse is false.

there is a HUGE difference between being in the FORM of someone and BEING someone. after jesus died we was resurrected and made immortal like god. all this scripture is affirming is that.

C) God the Father calls His Son “God”

Hebrews 1: 8 - But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

God the Father calls His Son “God”. If Jesus was just a god, then the Father himself is in error, because He addresses Jesus, the Son as His “God”, exalted like the Father. Then, this verse is false according to the context “Jesus is just a god”.

that arguement doesnt prove they are the same, after all if "God" is just a title (which it is) the scripture would not be in conflict

D) Jesus is called “God with us”

Matthew 1:23 - "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

Jesus was called God with us. If Jesus was just a god, then this verse is false and should read “A god is with us”.

or maybe thats just the meaning of the name and your assuming that it implies jesus is god.

isaiah 8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

it just means he's on our side. its not proof of jesus' divinity

E) Jesus and the Father are one.

John 10:30 - I and the Father are one."

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false because Jesus put himself as the same level with God the Father.

this one is funny because you talk about context and then ignore it.

read the rest of the chapter. the jews thought jesus was saying the same thing you think he's saying. verse 34 jesus corrects them by quoting psalms. by 38, he explains that he does his fathers works, thus implying that the father and him are one in will

isnt it said a husband and wife become ONE flesh? do you take that scripture literally too?

F) Jesus has the same glory as the Father

Isaiah 42:8 - "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

John 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Reading the two verses above, the Lord will not give glory to another. But Jesus has the same glory as the Father. Since Jesus and the Father are one, they have the same glory and they will not give glory to another. If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false for “a god” cannot have the glory of the God the Father.

the verse says "the glory i had with you" not the "same glory as you"

G) God says to have no other gods before Him

Exodus 20:3 - You shall have no other gods before me.

God the Father calls Jesus His God. Jesus and the Father are one. One God. If Jesus is just a god, then both the Father and the Son breaks the Ten Commandments for God says to have no other gods before Him.

yes, but jesus NEVER told anyone to worship him. so no being a god wouldnt violate that law

H) Jesus is God Almighty

Revelation 1:7 - Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

If Jesus is just a god, then this verse is false because it says, Jesus is God Almighty.

at first 9 introduces john. so john is same as jesus and god? verse 7 and 8 introduce them in the same order they are stated in verse 6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father"

I) Jesus is God overall

Romans 9:5 - Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

If Jesus is a just a god, then this verse should read “who is a god over all”.

did not Yahweh appoint him as king over all?

again, god is a title.

J) Jesus is our Great God

again, title.

K) God laid down his life for us

again.... title

L) Thomas said, “My Lord and my God!”

you guessed it, title

I can carry on till Z, if I want to. Now, if you were to take the translation as “The Word (Jesus) was a god”, then you have to throw the whole Bible away and preserve 5 words consisting of 14 letters only – “The Word was a god” in favor of the correctness of the Greek translation in your version which is very much questionable and refutable. It makes for a cheaper and thinner Bible by the way. lol

lol, now lets look at the context...

john 17:15 - jesus praying to god
john 12:28 - jesus asking god to do something and god replying
john 13:16, 14:12 and 28- jesus saying his father is greater than him.
john 4:34, 5:30, 6:38 and 40 - jesus talking about doing god's will and not his own (simply impossible if they are the same person)
john 4:34, 5:24,30,36,37, 6; 38,39,40,44,57 , 7:16 (also says that the doctrine is not his), 7:28,29,33, 8:16,18,26,29,42, 9:4, 11:42, 12:44,45,49, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:18,21,23,25, 20:21- jesus refering to the fact that god "sent" him
john 7:28 - jesus saying he did not send himself
john 10:32-27 - jesus correcting jews for thinking he was calling himself god, why woul he correct them if it was true?
john 1:18 - no man has seen god

i took these scriptures just from john, there is more.

so if john was writing in verse 1:1 that jesus was yahweh, why would he then put all these scriptures that blatantly contradict verse 1?

Originally posted by amitheone

A) Jesus was equal with God

John 5:18 - For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

....

Jesus was equal with God. If Jesus was just a god, then this verse is false as Jesus has equal standing with God according to the verse.

Rather odd that you would take sides with the people who killed Jesus, as the holders of truth.
Do you think that if the bible says it, it is true, even if it is quoting something that is wrong, and coming from people in the employ of the devil?
So, you must also take the position that Jesus broke the Sabbath.
I am somewhat troubled by your motivation, sinking to the level of Satan himself, to delude the people.
Let me ask you straight out, do you believe I am going to Hell, if I do not agree with you?
Is that one of the commandments, " thou shalt make room in your hearts to make accommodation for three Gods."?
If it was so important to adopt the doctrine of the Trinity, don't you think it would have been spelled out, somewhere in the Bible?
What I read seems contradictory to that.
When we go to heaven, God will instruct us, in person, what we should or should not think of proper worship.
Do you think God has taken you up to Seventh Heaven, like Paul, and spoke to you directly, to go out and preach the Trinity, before it is too late and everyone goes to Hell for lack of proper theological understanding?

Originally posted by GJIML
Well, i was raised for the truth that Jesus is the messiah and God...
But now, i'm having second thoughts about,if he's the son of the living God or He's God in flesh ! ! Plz, anyone who can shed some lights on this topic feel free to reply, it might comfort me

In other words: Is Jesus God ?

GJML - your head must be spinning from all the posts - mine is First - let me ask you a question...What is it specifically that is giving you second thoughts? I ask this because I get the distinct impression it is not as simple a question as it appears on the surface...

But my answer to your surface question is yes and yes - He is both the son of the living God and the WORD MADE FLESH...in other words made fully human....but instead of giving you numerous quotes and what is termed "apologetics" let me suggest that you ask the Holy Spirit to empower your own study and reading of the Word - Start with the book of John in the New Testament - the New King James is a good translation and really soak it in...and before each reading or studying time ask the Holy Spirit to bring "All knowledge and truth to your remembrance" .... live with it and make it yours. Then, I absolutely guarantee you will have your answer...

Miriam, Jesus cannot be a god without being the God. There is only one God, according to 1 Corinthians 8:4. You mentioned 2 Cor. 4:4, but that says "god of this world" so Satan isn't a god, but is worshipped as a god by the world.

reply to post by Alcove


thats a very good point. but your getting certain things mixed up. the apostle was saying from the context that there is only one god we worship.

the reason i say that is because even GOD (Yahweh) himself calls jesus a "god", but he also calls humans "gods" in psalms. jesus even quotes that scripture in chapter 10 of john.

so we see that other things other than GOD (yahweh) are called "god". god is without a doubt a title. but how are we to read that title?

notice that GOD (yahweh) always directs worship to himself.
Jesus never told anyone to worship him
humans worship the gods they choose.

when the apostle says there is only one god, what specifically is he refering to? because obviously the "title" god is used alot. im sure paul would have been familiar with this as in his second letter then then calls satan the god of this world.

no the context of 8:4 is specifically worship. he is talking about eating food sacrificed to idols and he is saying that it isnt a problem because these gods dont exist. so if you are not worshiping these idols of stone, then whats wrong with eating the food?

----------------------

i wanted to add about your comment that satan is only a god because people worship him

john 5:19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

matt 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

so we see that satan is in fact the "god of this world". he is in fact permitted to rule. its certainly not because GOD can't take the world back.

we know this is the case because how else would satan be able to offer the world to jesus? luke (which has the same account is alittle more specific

luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

jesus would say later that we conquered the world. but the point is that satan isnt just a god because humans call him so, it is title.



[edit on 27-6-2008 by miriam0566]

I am going to list scripture that talk about Jesus and who he is. The bible more times say that Jesus is the so of God other than being God.

Bread of Life John chapter 6 v 33 I think

For I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him whom has sent me

Jesus was sent by God to do God's will not his own. This scipture alone is undeniable proof that Jesus is not God. Jesus calls God his own God and Father. What happen when Jesus die on the cross he said

father fathe why have you forsaken me

Jesus more times in the bible gets called the son of God more than being called God in the bible. Jesus prays and talks to God. another undeniable fact. Showing that Jesus is not God. Jesus is devine and has all power in heaven to do what God wants. But that just it Jesus does what God wants not his own will. Jesus is like a God in every cents. Jesus has God's blood in his vanes. He is of God purely God's son. But that does'nt make him God.

When Jesus got baptized he was put under water what happen. God's spirit (which jesus would not need if he is God)comes down on Jesus. Jesus on earth and God in heaven god says this

this is my som whom I am well pleased

other undeniable fact.

read revelations chapter 4-5

lets get the basic of the trinity so we can brake it won. God the spirit, god jesus god the holy ghost and those three are one.

God is not only a spirit he has a body. First i like to point out that the bible says that man was made in God's image. Revelations chapter 4-5 show that God has a body and is seprate from Jesus. revelations says this

not quote directly God's SITS on a thrown holding in his RIGHT HAND the scroll of 7 seals. (cant sit or hold a scroll if you dont have a body, in fact it says right hand, showing god has a body) This alone proofs trinity is fake.

Jesus comes and takes the scroll out of God's hands. Showing that Jesus is seprate from God. (some dont believe in the trinity but that they believe that Jesus is God, that when Jesus goes to heaven there is only God called Jesus, which is wron this is called the onesness thoery.

nowhere in the bible does it say that all three are one. If you want to call trinity as a mistey where is it in the bible for God said that the bible is his word.

When Jesus die on the cross he said father father why have you (god in heaven) forsaken me (jesus on earth. He calls god is own father and notices that God was somehow forsaken Jesus all this is undeniable. God with God and his spirit.

Remember Jesus prayed and talk to God. in the ten commandments it said tho salt worship ONE GOD.

you should read the mistey of the trinity forum. read the last post all of them. maybe that will help.

Jesus is the perfect manifestion of God. He is like a twin of God. But Jesus gets his power from God and was born throw God's will. Jesus is devine and and where alode to worship him.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Great that you are the Pagan Police.
I did not know I was a pagan.
The fact that there are people worshiping other gods is indicative of the fact that there are other gods.
Are you insane?

Not the Pagan Police....just drawing a conclusion. You didn't know you were a Pagan? Look at your very next sentence. I will quote YOU: "The fact that there are people worshipping other gods is indicative of the fact that there are other gods."

Twice you said it was a FACT that there are other gods. Therefore, you believe there to be more than one god which by definition, makes you a Pagan. Am I insane? No.....intelligent, yes!

Like you said, if someone worhips a rock, it doesn't make the rock a god. There is ONE God. Many have various stories about how He came to be and many call Him different names but when it comes right down to it, there is but one God.

Some call him God, Buddha, Ja, Jehovah, Allah, blah blah blah. All the same person: God!!

Hi God!

[edit on 27-6-2008 by Excitable_Boy]