Evolutionary dynamics of male homosexuality.

Originally posted by XyZeR


So all these animals choose to be gay ? well i'll be darned !....

Anyone thinking that Homosexuality is a choice or a trend, is seriously deluded.

Ha ha I think YOU guys are deluded. That animal crap doesn't prove jack and it doesn't excuse it either. Mu god monkeys throw feces at people to and if you "Choose" to you can always say "well monkeys do it con"

The point is WE are NOT other animals, they don't have a basis for morality, WE DO. That is why we have a Judicial system and animals do not. Why other animals killing another animal, they don't yank him off to animal court. If you want to absolve yourself feeling like now I can live in total depravity GUILT FREE! You are without excuse are you ??

HA HA HA If gays wanna be gays then just BE GAY and quit whining about new ways and reasons the rest of us are supposed to adopt as your rationale for living that way. It won't happen either way, genetic or not.

I will ALWAYS be sick to my stomach watching two guys kissing.

- Con



[edit on 27-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

con,

what do you think of this post? www.abovetopsecret.com...

part of what i'm seeing is people responding out of their aversion to the idea more than their understanding of what it means in the framework of christianity.

Originally posted by undo
con,

what do you think of this post? www.abovetopsecret.com...

part of what i'm seeing is people responding out of their aversion to the idea more than their understanding of what it means in the framework of Christianity.

Well,, I am a Calvinist, so I am really not about what the religion says but what the Bible does. At least regarding that post which by the way I agree with but think it goes to far or at least not far enough explaining the difference between the flesh that gets in between you and the lord and the kind God designed for us to get lost in and enjoy.

I think Sex is to enjoy, read song of Solomon and,, well you know lol.

I have said the exact same idea in past posts however, to reiterate, if one wants to know what it is that is keeping him or her from getting a closer connection to God and subsequently the spiritual gifts along with it, one must consider what they do the most or what is their biggest indulgence, what they spend most of there thoughts and concentration on.

Then disconnect from that, what ever it is just STOP IT

because it is THAT what keeps them from a more spiritually full filled relationship with God.

I would also add that you give up nothing in doing this and gain something few have ever imagined could be so personally satisfying and yes,,,

better than sex.

- Con


[edit on 27-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Conspiriology
That animal crap doesn't prove jack and it doesn't excuse it either.
- Con
[edit on 27-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

It proves without a doubt that homosexuality is "natural"
Why ? Because of the abundant observations of homosexuality in animals, not just one, but almost in any species.

homosexuality IS NATURAL, period !

So lets put it into words you might understand:

If God created every living thing, and he made some of them have homosexual tendencies, then he must have f*cked up...

But go on,keep telling us we're wrong ....

The point is WE are NOT other animals

Oh, sadly for you , we are
Mr. Conspiriology has conveniently forgotten basic high school biology.
The field of taxonomy clearly shows that humans are Homo sapiens, primates in the animal kingdom.

And then there is this:

I will ALWAYS be sick to my stomach watching two guys kissing.

You now really have shown that you suffer from Homophobia

"irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals"

what people do with their body parts is not the issue.
what people do with their hearts, is.
and it does say that being celebate and unmarried is the ideal state of a christian, because you can dedicate your entire life to the pursuit of it and it won't be as compromisable because you don't have the responsibilities of marriage.

i've seen preachers in excess of 300 lbs condemning gays.
i've seen people who love money more than anything else, condemning gays.
i've seen people who've been married and divorced several times, often for no other reason than they are tired of trying to get along with the other person, condemning gays.
i've seen people who have no problem with porn, condemning gays.
etc, and you know what i mean, etc.

the issue at hand is not your sin or your flesh, it's your ability to be forgiven for that sin and your hopeful and eventual ability to rise above the circumstances of that sin. it isn't the action that condemns but the intent and therefore the desire.
meat sacrificed to an idol, ya know, is not sinful to eat. where the sin comes in is the stumbling block it provides for others who have weaker faith.

so what you're doing is expecting the gay to have stronger faith than you do, demanding they not cast a stumbling block at your feet, so you won't have to judge them, which is the real crux of the issue.

what did jesus say? did he say we inherit the kingdom due to our personal perfection?

these scriptures have an overal interpretation. they should be read as a cohesive unit and not cherry picked to assuage an aversion to a particular topic.

reply to post by XyZeR
animals are also commonly observed to drink urine, eat excrement, eat vomit, & even eat their young...

Gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to "I can do whatever I want and you can go to perdition. (If it feels good, I'll do it!)" If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend's lover, he'll do it, justifying it as an act of "sexual freedom" and the friend be damned.

The majority of gays are extremely promiscuous and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs and includes such "forbidden" aspects of sex as wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and sadomasochism, which involves violence.

When it comes to the old or ugly, gays are "the real queer bashers." Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.

Gays tend to deny reality in various ways: wishful thinking, paranoia, illogic, emotionalism and embracing crackpot ideas.

Is there any doubt that this behavior is sick? Obviously this is not true of all homosexuals. I feel no malice toward gays. I feel the same way about people who have the flu. I want them to get better and I don't want it to spread.

Gays want you to be gay, they use propaganda such as:

"Desensitization": flooding straight America with advertising presenting gays in the "least offensive manner possible."

"Jamming": Advertising that equates fear of gays with hatred of Jews, Blacks and women.

"Conversion": Presenting images of gays that look like regular folks. "The image must be the icon of normality."

They say "it makes no difference that the ads are lies" because "we are using them to...counter negative stereotypes that are every bit as much lies."

reply to post by doctormcauley


why do you suppose jesus pointed out the references to laws of Moses regarding divorce? remember what he said? if you even think of committing a sin, in God's sight, you've already committed it. that means every man who has ever been sexually aroused by looking at female or every female who has been sexually aroused by looking at a man, has already commited fornication with them in the eyes of God. jesus wanted us to know that we are so hopelessly sinful, that the idea of trying to say we could stand in righteous judgement of each other is laughable. Because a thing is secret (only in your mind) does not mean it isn't a sin and who are we really trying to please here: God or other people?

this puts a whole new spin on the idea of casting stones, since even the thinking is the doing: he who is without sin cast the first stone. any takers?

i didn't think so.

reply to post by doctormcauley


"Ding Dong"

"Honey, there's a delivery for you. It's that Broad Brush you ordered. You know, so you can make sweeping generalizations about any group you don't care for? Oh, and your porn video arrived too. Let's see....Oh, Leave it to Beavers. That sounds nice.....maybe two women will be in it together, you like that, right? Well, I'm barefoot and pregnant, so I'll go make you dinner now..."

Originally posted by XyZeR

It proves without a doubt that homosexuality is "natural"
Why ? Because of the abundant observations of homosexuality in animals, not just one, but almost in any species.

No it isn't "Natural and it doesn't come naturally to those of us who would place our existence above an alley cat in heat.

It may be natural to you in AS a naturalist but the act itself is OBVIOUSLY not the way sex is ergnomically adapted. Take a common sexual practice among gays, anal sex. The rectum and hemoroidal arteries are expressly made for the elimination of fecal matter in an exit only aperture closing method of elimination. The female counterpart and I might add the ergonomically correct compliment is entirely designed to accomodate not only the sex but the resulting pregnancy if one "Naturally occurs.

How you can even argue this point is too much to fathom UNLESS you are speaking from a the person who has an interest in indulging in this un natural form of male on male or female on female sex , then yes I can understand why you are getting all indignant about it. It is your brand of sex your bent and as I said before if thats your flavor of sex then just do it and shut up about it BUT DON'T TELL ME IT IS NATURAL WHEN CLEARLY IT IS NOT! If you can't handle the lable that goes with the fetish then too bad but you arn't going to make me see it like that so YOU don't have to feel like an outcast.


If I am committing a crime and I can't help myself or pan handle money because I am too lazy to work or have a drug problem, and sell drugs as an illegal alien, I am get just as angry that they want me to call them undocumented workers when they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. If they sell drugs am I to call them an undocumented pharmacist:?

So lets put it into words you might understand:homosexuality IS NATURAL, period !

Ok live in the lie in addition to your lusts and depravity, I really couldn't care less.

If God created every living thing, and he made some of them have homosexual tendencies, then he must have f*cked up...But go on,keep telling us we're wrong ....

You are wrong. If you want to talk about God and religion than don't bitch when it becomes a topic about religion. The fall of Adam is why we have this and this is not the fault of God it is the fault of man who like, like you, don't want to be judged and want to use scripture like that to keep anyone like me to from judging the behavior as just what it is.

When you are arguing in support of being completely and totally un repentant it is then we see the true meaning of Jesus teaching when he asked who is left to persecute the woman about to be stoned,, he said go now and SIN NO MORE and THAT is what liberalism and cushy useless spineless Christians are into these days.

Judge the sin not the sinner.

NO JUDGE THE SINNER AND REBUKE HIS SIN

Sin doesn't acknowledge us, it doesn't care but besides that you aren't fooling anyone with crap like that anyway. When someone says Gay Anal sex is unnatural, I am talking about the act itself, correct?

But what does it say about the one engaging in that kind of depravity?

They feel judged.

Now as I have been talking on these posts I have answered undo who made the same mistake as you are. Personally, I couldn't care less what floats your boat and would welcome you in our church knowing you are gay like anyone else but when one questions me about facts of nature or what the Bible says,, Im gonna answer it. If you want my personal opinion, it's like I said,, You wanna play that than it isn't up to me to say you can't but that's as far as it goes. I will not agree with it being natural or feel sorry for them when they are persecuted.

I get persecuted on these boards everyday just like you do and we both stand for what we believe is right but I will not condone it and I do NOT believe you are any bigger a target for bigotry than anyone else, in fact GAYS BEG to be persecuted by setting up forums for debates they already can expect this kind of dialogue then when they get it they post in a gazillion exclamation marks with this in your face madness as if bitching to the segment of the very votes they need to advance their cause in politics is a smart idea when it is STUPID!.

Now I not only think their sex life is not conducive for a Christian Consciousness but I begin to think there all more dogmatic more steeped in zealotry and bigotry than the religious fundamentalists.

Oh, sadly for you , we are
Mr. Conspiriology has conveniently forgotten basic high school biology.
The field of taxonomy clearly shows that humans are Homo sapiens, primates in the animal kingdom.

No YOU forgot reading comprehension,, READ MY POST!

I said we are not "LIKE" other animals in the context that we are OBVIOUSLY the top of the food chain and like the Bible said we'd be,, WE ARE! Other animals do not contemplate thought like we do, they have all pretty much stayed the same in their evolution to defend themselves from us while we on other hand used to hunt with stones and sticks but now we use camouflage and radar, night vision and laser accurate scope high powered rifles and hunting now,, they don't stand a chance.

You don't think WE are somewhat of a GOD to them if not a perfect one but what is perfection to an animal other than us anyway?

Now for this last one, I said it makes me sick to my stomach to see two guys kissing and you called me a homophobic hater who shows bigotry toward gays. in the same argument you want to say our sexuality is predicated on our genetic design.
'
HELP ME WITH THE MATH GUY!

Blame it in evolution IT JUST MAKES ME SICK and ya know what??

That is what it is SUPPOSED TO DO!

You think I am supposed to get turned on by it? or just be indifferent? How would you gays have us act so our repulsed reactions and the grip we have to get JUST so you won't have your feelings hurt is something you have to accept when I have to accept seeing that on TV or where ever it happens.

I can no more change that than you can change your sexuality furthermore, I have cradled more gay friends that have died of aids on there last day, hired more, worked with more than you will ever know.

I, don't care what they do in bed but I don't it in my face. Most of the time I see gays creating problems for therm selves asking for it by forcing the fact there gay down our throats when it really is none of our business.

I have no phobia of gays but I am first and foremost a Christian and when I am asked questions about an activity of sex sin, I am going to tell you what for. Am I gay? No. Have I ever committed sexual immorality

Guilty as sin.

Does a Gays sexual sin get treated worse?

No. the wages of all sin

is death.

- Con


[edit on 27-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

he said go now and SIN NO MORE and THAT is what liberalism and cushy useless spineless Christians are into these days.

The issue is bigger than your aversion to the act of homosexual sex, Con. It's about anything that separates us from God. You're banging the OT on the pulpit while living in an NT era.

What else does it say in the same text where it discusses the problem with homosexuality? It also mentions kids not behaving. It mentions the loss of kindness and charity between people (and doesn't stipulate what sexual proclivity they might have). It mentions all manner of things you see inherent in the every day activities of pretty much everyone on the planet. Homosexuality is isolated out because it is more offensive to people than the idea of someone being rude while standing in the grocery line, but in God's sight, they are both flesh responses. If God doesn't differentiate, why are we?

Originally posted by undo

What else does it say in the same text where it discusses the problem with homosexuality? It also mentions kids not behaving. It mentions the loss of kindness and charity between people (and doesn't stipulate what sexual proclivity they might have). It mentions all manner of things you see inherent in the every day activities of pretty much everyone on the planet. Homosexuality is isolated out because it is more offensive to people than the idea of someone being rude while standing in the grocery line, but in God's sight, they are both flesh responses. If God doesn't differentiate, why are we?

Ill tell you why,, Gays have a problem with it and whether they want to admit it or not, need confirmation, they have natural guilt and shame and set up threads like this WE don't THEY DO. It is always the same. I dont hate them, undo not at all and I agree with you girl but I have for a long time felt gays sublimating their own inability to accept themselves without some weird fascination with getting the Christians approval and it just won't happen when it is a specific sin discussed then that is the one I am going to talk about. I don't start threads saying gays are sinners and any one that does that is a Christian is the kind of Christian you are casting me as and I think you are not being as objective as you can is all

- Con

[edit on 27-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

Con,

Well the battle is between the natural man and his spiritual side.
So what they are arguing is in essence, true. Nature does make
some odd decisions. It does indeed create hurdles we are compelled
to leap over by the teachings of Jesus. But not because any particular
aspect of the natural man is any more sinful than any other in God's sight, but because there's a natural enmity between the temporary flesh body and the eternal spirit body.


The gospel message is not about beating the natural man upside the head with the LAW. it's about showing them the redemption and forgiveness in Christ. the law has already done it's bit and condemned all flesh. We got that part, already. The part we need help with is the ongoing, daily struggle, which we are all engaging in at various levels. You might be a shining example of spirituality in one area and a complete washout in another. Same for all of us.

But to expect the natural man to realize (who has no idea he has a spiritual body), that he's in the middle of a battle he's ultimately losing, is putting the cart before the horse.

Eh, I could be wrong. Just seems so logical...

reply to post by undo


undo, you never cease to amaze me!!!

Bleeping awesome thoughts, there!!! You earned this star!!

WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by ChronMan

 

Nope, Chron. It IS NOT a choice!!!

Homosexuality is genetic, plain and simple. NOBODY would wish to bring down distain and scorn on themselves, by CHOICE!!!!!!

Christianity, Judaism, Islam.....those are choices!! Well, actually, you can be born into a family, and be indoctrinated into a certain religion. BUT this is where the similarity ends.

A religion is, at heart....a choice. Sexuality is NOT!!

It's as simple as, saying you (for instance) as a heterosexual male suddenly 'chooses' to have sex with men. AIN'T gonna happen!!!! You don't "choose" your brain, at birth, just as you don't "choose" your parents. You get what you are dealt, in life.

You're too partial.
Lets examine a few aspects of your post...

1. You completely Disregarded the Fact that I said I believe Homosexuality to be a Neuronal Glitch, I'm guessing because you cannot challenge it.

2. You completely Disregarded the Fact that I said: "For SOME people..." homosexuality may be a choice. Instead, what you chose to do was percieve it in the typical partial POV, Black & White. Words like some, many, may be, can, and etc. seem to go unregistered with you.

3. Until you go out and survey every single homosexual out there, please don't make absolute statements such as: "No, It is NOT a Choice." All that does is expose your extreme partiality, to the point where you disregard logic to defend your stance on the issue simply because it applies to YOU. Like majority of other homosexuals, you are unnecessarily defensive.

And answer my question(s) from the previous post...

Hypothetically Speaking, Do you (Universal) as a Homosexual sometimes wish that Men would have Vaginas or Females Penis'?
Would you as a result date those Females that had Penis' or would you continue to Date Men?

reply to post by ChronMan


ChronMan...It is difficult to answer your post, since I don't know how to selectively 'quote' certain segments. I refuse to do that, anyway, since it appears disingenuous.

Sorry, had a phone call interruption. What I remember was a term 'Neuronal'....I'm going to look that up, because it seems a new term that I am unfamilar with.

BUT, if 'Neuronal' refers to the neurons, which, of course, are in the brain, then I thnk you're helping me make the POINT that homosexuality is not a choice, it is Nature.

reply to post by ChronMan


ChronMan...I just looked again at the bold portion, bottom of your post. I shuddered as I read it.

A penis or a vagina isn't the point!!!! Sorry for being graphic, but YOU brought it up.

There are many, many, many homosexual men that I would never be attracted to. It's not all about the physical!!! It's about the person!!!!

I imagine every straight man reading this, right now, knows that he each has a 'type'....but, I guarantee, your sex drive over-rode your opinion, at times. (We're men, after all!!!) BUT, the act of sex is fleeting, it is a temporary pleasure, it is transient.

What matters most is the bond between people. Too many 'commitments' are based on a fallacy.... a base sexual attraction, and that can die off very quickly. Hence, the 50% divorce rate, here in the US.

So, anyone who wishes to purport that Gays are more promiscuous, should just look inward.....and look at how many straight men cheat on their wives or girlfriends.

Doesn't it seem like it's probably either/or? choice/nature

take for example ancient greece. pederasty was all the rage.
take my word on this, you don't want to look up pederasty if you
are offended easily.
almost the entire population followed it. male children were highly
prized and females were frequently killed at birth. they had one
of the highest death rates of female children of any other culture in history
because the focus was on the male, the male physique, the male
strength, the male sexuality. women were a necessary evil,
for perpetuation of the family name.
anyway, that lifestyle, i see as a choice due to societal pressure, not entirely
as a result of nature, although i'm sure it was occassionally the case,
like in any other population.

so the real issue isn't that it's entirely one way or the other but any possible combination of reasons, leading from nature, to upbringing to society.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by undo]

reply to post by doctormcauley


Hey, doc, the only gay agenda is Starbucks in the morning, a trip to the gym for a workout, and maybe a dry martini later on while watching reruns of AbFab. That's pretty much the extend of the gay conspiracy!

But the stereotypes you present are entertainin. The actual research appears to paint a different story and it's a lot more boreing. It's the ones who fall outside the norms that make the reading interesting.