Freemasonry is NOT a Religion!

Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.

Wrong. Been there, done that. I just quoted the definition of religion and showed how it doesn't fit masonry. Your going to have to try another angle. Perhaps find another fictional book to quote from?

I have no idea what your talking about when it comes to "tombstones, the supremes and the department of defense" - did you miss the part where we just found out your quoting from a fictional book? I do notice something about tombstones in it. You need to get another source, Rockpuck already exposed you.

Now...unless you care to show how masonry is a religion within the scholarly definition of religion that I previously posted, we're done here - you've been debunked.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

It appears to me that Freemasonry is all about self discipline.

It doesn't matter what you are learning, it only matters how you learn it.

You can go to school to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, anything, but only discipline can teach you common sense. The schools are supposed to be teaching you how to learn, only you should decide what to learn.

Is this correct?

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALLis0NE]

As I have read this thread, I thought I might add some food for thought. In the controversies and debates over Freemasonry, I would state categorically that Freemasonry is "experiential" in nature, and it is very, very difficult to put into words the actual experience of being involved with a Masonic Lodge.

Both the ritual work, meetings, and general involvement in Masonic prganizations cannot be explained easily in writings or books. It has to be experienced firsthand. Masonic scholars can attempt to explain the ritual, and give definitions, historical context, and explanations. But reading about the ritual is very, very different from actually taking part in the ritual or belonging to a Lodge.

It's like trying to explain to someone what it was like to attend a fabulous concert, or attending Mass at the Vatican. How do you convey the experience of a Masonic Lodge ritual? The description of the event has to be experienced firsthand in person, and cannot be relayed via writing or reading. Words can only convey so much.

Masonry is generally condemned - even today - by the Catholic Church in particular, and by individuals with very misguided knowledge gleaned from books and writings of a conspirational nature. For Masons, it is near impossible to explain exactly what being a Mason means to them. It is a private matter, and difficult to describe in words - not from a lack of desire, but from the rich complexity of the experience.

Fundamentalist Christians and the Catholic Church condemn Freemasonry on various grounds. Most importantly, they condemn Freemasonry on the grounds that it does not preach salvation from Jesus Christ. This is a major point of contention between the two parties, as well as the historical power struggles between the politicos of both the Catholic Church and the Freemasons. It is a debate that may never be resolved. From an outsider's perspective, it looks more like a political power struggle than a real debate.

Freemasonry aims to bring members of all religions and political beliefs together in a fraternal brotherhood of harmony, without contention. The goal is inclusion, not exclusion, provided one is not an atheist. This aim of inclusion is compatible with many Christian tenets.

Brothers are expected to provide assistance to others in need - both within their Lodge and within the community at large. This is again another very Christian tenet - to help those less fortunate.

Lodge members are strictly forbidden from discussing religion or politics in the Lodge - This rule is to prevent infighting and to promote harmony among the brothers. One's religion is generally a separate matter from their involvement in Masonry.

Masonry has elements of religion in the sense of a recognized belief in God, and in its ritualistic nature. But I would be hard pressed to call it a religion in the traditional sense. We have many rituals, but these are all highly symbolic, and can easily be misconstrued as being religious in nature. The best description would be a fraternity - with its own distinct rituals and philosophical belief system.

Many Masons are very devoted to the Craft, and the friendships and comraderie that develop among brothers is unique. I have been impressed with the general quality and character of most of the Masonic brothers that I have gotten to know over the years.

It is truly sad to see Masonry condemned in these forums by individuals who, quite frankly, have probably never stepped foot in a Masonic Lodge in their life. Reading books or citing speculative articles are no replacement from the actual experience of being a Freemason.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


I would say yes, in a way. Freemasonry can only teach you so much by rope memorization and going through the ritual. It takes initiative to learn the rest and explore broader topics. But there are still certain things that just aren't truth, no matter how much further investigation you do - in the context of this thread - no matter how much you look into freemasonry as a religion, it is not.

didnt read the replys, sorry if this is already covered, but there can be a public and private front of the freemasons. like a tool chapter that is open to the public eye so any further investigation on such issues will turn up empty. and if so, the one behind the curtains could be a religious like cult. we still don't have all the dirt it will take to turn up all these answers. like many have said on this issue, hidden in plain sight, so not many people will look farther into it. that is most likely why some people are such strong skeptics against the idea that the government would do any thing wrong with intention.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
It is my understanding that when Masons meet as a Lodge there is a Bible on the alter with a compass resting on it. The Bible passage, and the compass position change depending if the Lodge is open in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree.

This is correct in all regular lodges. Except the "alter" is only called the "alter" in the US

If the majority of the Masons present are not Christians, how does this differ?

Under the English Constitution (others may differ) it wouldn't make any difference. Freemasons can choose to be initiated on a book other than the Bible, but the Bible always remains open.

Many freemasons regard the Bible, known in freemasonry as the Volume of the Sacred Law as symbolic, and representative rather than literal. Christian freemasons of course don't need to do this.

In a lodge, say in Saudi Arabia or Malaysia, do they emphasize different passages of the Koran for each degree?

I've no idea. Actually there aren't many regular lodges in Islamic countries, due I suspect to the lessons of religious tolerance taught in the Lodge conflicting with the somewhat fundamental nature of some Islamic nations. Its actually illegal in Saudi Arabia - for example.

There is some excellent background reading for you at Pietre-Stones - here and here.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
By the way, who is Wayne? Are you sure your mentally stable? Are you OK? I don't know of any of the masons here named Wayne. If the voices are telling you that...seek help. Its not the Holy Spirit, I'm afraid.

This is probably part of his cut 'n' paste that wasn't sanitized properly before posting. I suspect the "Wayne" mentioned is Pastor Wayne, a former anti-mason who studied freemasonry most carefully in order to hone his argument - and ended up becoming a freemason himself. He used to post regularly on such fundie nutjob sites as Ephesians 5-11, and it could well be our new fundie visitor is cutting from that site or from one similar.

The arguments repeated by mitchelcopper are old - I haven't seen anything new from the fundies for a while. However these hate sites are probably one of the best recruiting tools of the modern age for freemasonry. I've lost count of the number of Christians I personally have communicated with who researched freemasonry and ended up joining.

reply to post by Rockpuck

thanks for the post but masonry started in religion like all other things i guess its forsaken that the misconceptions come because masonr used to not be a religion but be religious

reply to post by Anonymous ATS
first of all the catholic church does not condemn masonry they have similiar orginizations within their own church second of all the reason why masons cant explain what a mason is is because personally there rituals are pointless and do not make a person a better man i think masonry is condemned because its misunderstood and misunderstood b/c its to take up someones time not to do all the things they say they do

see Duncans Ritual of FreeMasonry

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


It is my understanding that when Masons meet as a Lodge there is a Bible on the alter with a compass resting on it. The Bible passage, and the compass position change depending if the Lodge is open in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree.

If the majority of the Masons present are not Christians, how does this differ?

In a lodge, say in Saudi Arabia or Malaysia, do they emphasize different passages of the Koran for each degree?

In every Lodge, there is a Bible opened to the appropriate passage. In some countries, the Tanakh and Qu'ran are also on the altar. The candidate will take his obligation on the holy book of his faith.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews all consider the Old Testament to be Scripture, and the passages used are from the OT.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
First ML: Where or rather when are non masons referred to as Profane in Masonry? I cannot recall ever hearing that word used.

The only ritual I remember hearing it in is the AASR 30°. However, the word is found in the Gothic Constitutions to denote the uninitiated.

In the Eleusinian Mysteries, before the Assembly was formerly opened, the Dadouchos announced "Depart hence, ye profane".

Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Pike also wrote page 213: "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion."

I guess what we are left with is trying to figure out which time he was lying?

Neither time. You can't just quote a line from a book you've probably never read. The quote has to be read in context.

Pike said that Masonry is not a religion. In this, he agrees with practically all other Masons. I've never met a Mason who considered Masonry his "religion".

On the flip side, Pike later talked about what the Apostle James wrote: that pure religion consisted of charitable thoughts and charitable deeds. In this sense, "Masonry is a Temple of Religion and its teachings are instructions in Religion".

". ; . Pike argued that one could not hold two religions at the same time and hence, a Christian, a Jew, or a Moslem could not also accept Freemasonry as his religion. The logic of Pike's statement is not convincing,for,while one might not hold two inconsistent religions at the same time any more than he could be a monarchist and a republican at the same time, there is nothing to prevent one holding two or three religions, philosophies, or political theories which are not inconsistent."

Coil here has a point. For example, the first Christians were also practicing Jews, so they held two religions.

Masonry has been very successful in its syncretistic blending of religions, so as to be able to point to quite a bit of what it teaches about morality, integrity, faithfulness, etc., and be able to convince Christians, for example, that on the basis of such matters Freemasonry is not incompatible with the Christian faith. This claim of compatibility is, in actuality, false, when realizing the differences in the doctrinal statements of each, pertaining to God and Religion.

I disagree. At best, you could perhaps argue that Masonry is incompatible with some interpretations of Christianity, but not all of them. It would probably be better to say that Masonry is compatible with traditional and mainstream Christianity. If Masonry is not compatible with some forms of modern fundamentalism, with all due respect, I won't lose any sleep over it.

Freemasonry has managed, by ritual, to gloss over the heresies and concentrate on matters such as Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth

Sorry, but any time I hear the word "heresy", my BS detector goes off. Masons are grown men with free will, and are capable of determing for themselves what is truth, and what is not.

And, of course, always falling back to, "After all, we are only a fraternity, and our principal tenets are Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth. What's wrong with that?

Good question. What *is* wrong with that?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Sorry, but any time I hear the word "heresy", my BS detector goes off.

Sometimes I read something that just makes me laugh out loud. It's so true! I had to turn my BS detector off as it continually bleeped during meetings at work.

The pressure is really seems to work, but We should take the time
needed to help them without putting to much stress on them otherwise
they could get sick, realising it all at once, don't forget that for some
they have been, Psycholigicly Programed, since 5, 10 or even 20
years in their '' Temples '' by the cult of Freemasonry and their Brainwashed Friends

Specialy if we look at this thread Anti-Mason found guilty of 1st Degree Homicide,

Originally posted by Road Warrior 31
reply to post by cbass

 

Yap..! it really looks man, like our freemason friends, our getting PARANOID

We can understand the pressure your are all living, when we,

***************************************
'' The Gentlemen, Conspiracy Theorists '',

***************************************
are trying to HELP you get out of the spiderweb of Freemasonry.

You have to get your self calm and relax, thousands of Adepts succeded to
left Religious Cult, You can trust all the Ex-Freemasons and Conspiracy
Theorists. With our help we will get you out of this Cult, and you will feel
back secure, all you have to do is to be honest with your Self...!

If you need it, don't hesitate to U2U me if you need more privacy help.

Your Friendly

RoadWarrior 31

Your Friendly
RoadWarrior 31

reply to post by Road Warrior 31


And why should we trust you? We've seen one anti-mason is a killer, and using your logic, all anti-masons - and thus you - are a killer.

Do you have any proof your not a killer? Do you have any proof your not part of a brainwashed Anti-Mason Cult? Lets see it. Now. I think its pretty obvious the anti-masons are as brainwashed as Scientology.

If you need it, don't hesitate to U2U me if you need more privacy help.


[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by cbass


I just called my local lodge, I'm planning to join. If I find anything that goes against my beliefs, I'll quit. I'm sure I won't though as I've educated myself on what Freemasonry is supposed to be about. Trial by fire.

from what I always understood, Masonry was founded by the Guilds in the middle ages when the people were robbed by the same taxes and classes we are robbed with now, and to protect their knowledge and to make people aware of what was going on they went underground

Edit - Double Post

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Grey Magic]

Edit triple post

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Grey Magic]

Hey Rockpunk,

Just kidding Steve, I thought that was quite funny. Your original Post was very well thought out and well put togeather. I wasn't sure of I was alowed to post on a Pro Mason forum due to previous complaints of "masons ganging up". In my lodge, about 7 of the regulars all go to the same church. That doesn't make my lodge a Baptist lodge, it just makes several members Baptists. I in fact was never asked what religion I was, only that I believe in God. The reference to "God" as the one christians worship was just due to the fact the the guy who asked me wasn't a muslem of a budist. Otherwise he might have asked if I believe in Alah of Buda. I have enjoyed the spiritual aspect of Masonry because I don't aggree with organized religion to the point that I have to give money to the Church to be saved. That is just my opinion. To all those who might be thinking of joining, my reason for believing that there was not a conspiracy to take over the world, or rape goats or whatever, is that the people I trusted to answer my questions about masonry were people that I respected and trusted. If they were to steer me wrong, I would have no reason to ever trust anyone again. I am happy to say that I haven't been let down, but the exact oposite, I have been lifted up.

When do I get my "take over the world" handbook and paycheck?