Fluoride is Natural in Water

reply to post by LoneGunMan


You are confused. Here, read this link. It will explain why people are getting confused about what the Nazis did (actually Dr. Willy Lange).

en.wikipedia.org...

Sodium monofluorophosphate was first described in 1929 by the German chemist Dr. Willy Lange, who was then with the University of Berlin. His fruitless attempts to prepare the free monofluorophosphoric acid led him to check the stability of its esters. Together with Gerda von Krueger, one of his students, Lange thus synthesized diethyl fluorophosphate and some analogs, which proved to be quite toxic; the first nerve agents were discovered. In the 1930's, Gerhard Schrader, working for the German company IG Farben, tried to develop synthetic insecticide. His work focused on esters of phosphoric acid and resulted in an accidental discovery of some other nerve agents such as DFP (= di-isopropyl fluorophosphate), Tabun, Soman, and Sarin. In the meantime, Lange, who was married to a Jewish woman, emigrated from Germany to the United States and started work for Procter and Gamble Company. In 1947, he and Ralph Livingston of Monsanto Company published reports on the preparation of the free fluorophosphoric acids and mentioned the use of some toxic esters of monofluorophosphoric acid (like DFP) in the treatment of glaucoma and myasthenia gravis. The well known toxicity of these esters led to fears that the simple salts might also be toxic, and such fears precluded any large scale commercial use of the salts

reply to post by TheComte


well you can have my share, drink up!

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

You are confused. Here, read this link. It will explain why people are getting confused about what the Nazis did (actually Dr. Willy Lange).

According to the book "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben," you are mistaken:

"...The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water on Earth was found in Germany's Nazi prison camps. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride`s supposed effect on children`s teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force the people in their concentration camps into calm submission." (Reference book: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" by Joseph Borkin.)
 
The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from Mr. Charles Perkins, a chemist:
 
"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, The Truth About Water Fluoridation, to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. "In the 1930's, Hitler and the German Nazi`s envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place. ...
 
"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual`s power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient light lobotomy]
 
"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty.
 
"When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go into Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plan to communize the world. ...
 
"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great IG Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years` research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine -- any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically." CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October 1954. __________________________

www.rense.com...

reply to post by TheComte


This is bull#. Flouride is the TOXIC BYPRODUCT OF MANUFACTURING ALUMINUM. When aluminum production soared in the mid 20th century, they didn't know what to do with all the leftover poison. They didn't want to dump it on the planet, so they figured, hey, we can just put it in the drinking water. So much flouride has been added that is has contaminated the planets natural water sources. FLOURIDE IS NOT NATURAL, PEOPLE, WAKE UP! It is the BYPRODUCT OF MANUFACTURING ALUMINUM!
As far as health concerns, please research what FLOUROSIS is. Flouride is in no way healthy for you. Adolph Hitler put it in the drinking water at the concentration camps. You think he did that b/c he cared about the Jews' teeth? The nazi scientists found that flouride makes people more docile, thus making them more likely to accept their enslavement.
It's the same with us. We are the prisoners and the flouride helps us ignore the cage around us.
WAKE UP AND STOP POISONING YOURSELF!!!

reply to post by GoldenFleece


I already acknowledged that in excess amounts it is toxic. Good thing they don't put in more than the safe level of 1mg/l. As for why they put it in. It's because it prevents tooth decay. 50 years of studies prove this.

Again I ask, where are all the victims poisoned by fluoridated water? Where are they? And I don't want to see examples of people who took 5 fluoride pills or had a vat of it dumped on them or drove through a spill. Where are the victims from drinking water? Anyone?

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Ahh, Rense. The conspiracy site of all conspiracy sites. That is nothing but conspiracy theory. There is no proof that fluoride makes people docile and easy to control. LOL

reply to post by TheComte

Please show me any valid scientific study that says 1 mg/l of fluorosilicic acid is safe. Fluoride is more toxic than lead and slightly less than arsenic. When lead levels exceed 15 parts per billion, utilities must inform the public, treat the water to make it less corrosive, or in some cases, replace pipes.

If you don't trust Rense, maybe you'll trust the 11 EPA unions who represent over 7000 employees who've been calling for ZERO levels of fluoride for nearly three years:

www.washingtonpost.com...

In the county I live in (Brazil), both Sodium Fluoride and Fluosilicic Acid have been used for water fluoridation. The latter - Fluosilicic Acid -, due to it's cheapness, is way more popular than Sodium Fluoride. Fluosilicic Acid has never been tested by our brazilian FDA (ANVISA), so it's not approved for ingestion. This is pretty much the same situation most amercans that live in fluoridated communities find themselves in.

Then there are the issues of informed consent, bodily integrity, the precautionary principle, the limits to police power (the capacity of a state to regulate behaviours and enforce order within its territory).

Still, you have to look at the pharmacological implications. Tooth decay, at least here, is classified as a disease. That means that the administering of medicines, even for prophylactic treatment, must be in accord with the principles of pharmacology. In modern pharmacology even if you have a fixed dose of a drug, the individuals respond differently. When it comes to water fluoridation, you have it in the water and people are drinking different amounts of water. So you have huge variations in the consumption of this drug.

Lastly, the benefits - if they exist - derive exclusively from topical use. Many european countries do not fluoridate their water supplies and still have fewer cavities than other fluoridated countries. There is not a single reason why you should INGEST Sodium Fluoride or Fluosilicic Acid.

Water fluoridation has to be discussed outside of the paradigms and horizons of the 40's and 50's, when it was first implemented. Please help bring the debate to the 21st century.

Only 3rd World Nations would have a shadow of an excuse to keep fluoridation as a state practice. Only masses of poor people without access to toothpaste and basic health could maybe bring the issue up. Topical treatment is the only reasonable way to go, and that's what many countries did (Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, France, Norway, among otthers).

Can anyone tell me what are the benefits the come out of ingesting Sodium Fluoride and Fluosilicic Acid?

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

Again I ask, where are all the victims poisoned by fluoridated water? Where are they? And I don't want to see examples of people who took 5 fluoride pills or had a vat of it dumped on them or drove through a spill. Where are the victims from drinking water? Anyone?

You rang?

Fluoride the Aging Factor: How to Recognize and Avoid the Devastating Effects of Fluoride, by John Yiamouyiannis

A courageous and straightforward account of fluoride and the politics of fluoridation by one who was in the thick of the scientific and political battles for more than a quarter of a century. Yiamouyiannis, with a Ph.D. in biochemistry and a former biochemical editor at Chemical Abstracts Service, the world's largest chemical information center, is the world's leading authority on the biological effects of fluoride. He documents with 50 pages of references a very readable explanation of how fluoride upsets the body's collagen metabolism, causing damage to bones, teeth, connective tissue, arteries and skin; how it damages DNA and upsets the body's ability to repair its DNA, with tumors and cancer as a result; and how it damages enzymes and proteins, upsets the immune system, and causes autoimmune diseases. He thoroughly refutes the idea that fluoride is beneficial in preventing tooth decay and that it has a useful function in human nutrition.

Fluorosilicic acid or FSA is, in fact, a toxic pollutant generated by many industries, such as the manufacturing of aluminum, phosphate fertilizer, steel, nuclear materials and fuels, ceramics, brick, glass and concrete, to name a few. These industries have turned a tidy profit by disposing of this poison in our water supplies. Yiamouyiannis lays out the long, ugly, and outrageous history of fluoride. He is a lot more even-tempered in his presentation than you will probably be after reading his book. A must-read for anyone contemplating the issue of water fluoridation, and wanting to do so from a factual basis. Further along the "social corruption" connection to water fluoridation, one may also wish to read "Water Fluoridation and Crime in America" by Jay Seavey: www.fluorideresearch.org...

www.amazon.com...

There is a huge difference between sodium flouride and natural flouride... All you have to do is call your local water company to find out the source..., which usually comes froma byproduct of aluminum manufactuing.. It is in fact TOXIC.. just to to your local Home Depot and get yourself some rat poison... the main(and usually the only) ingredient is sodium flouride!... so please educate yourself natural flouride is no where near as dangerous as the flouride that is being put in our waters... It has a different chemical strucuture.... if its "natural" and good for you.. then why are the bottles labled "toxic"if you think its so good for you, then I suggest you go to Home Depot get yourself some sodium flouride and drink it... you will see right away that it is not so good for you!

reply to post by GoldenFleece


I already acknowledged there was scientific research both for and against. Your study attributes the properties of aging to fluoride. Not exactly definitive. Where's the guy who drank 5 glasses of water in a row and had to go to the ER because he was poisoned?

reply to post by GoldenFleece


The question asked by TheComte, and ignored by many, bears repeating...

Where are the specific "victims"? The "victims" that have suffered measurable, debilitating damage from the flouridation of a municipal water supply? Your contribution is scary, yes.....but I have yet to see any solid data that reveals real, empirical, problems with the level of flouride in water systems. I can find data tht shows various health issues about a large number of food additives. Sulfur dioxide is a common food preservative.....when used properly. Large doses can make a person very ill. Just as many other substances.

Originally posted by MrPenny
I'd love to be the proverbial "fly on the wall" and see what other noxious foods, substances, or liquids are ingested by those that whine about flouridation in public water supplies. Drinking a popular carbonated beverage right now? Munching on a Slim-Jim maybe?

I drink only self-filtered water, tea, or certified organic milk or juice.

I eat only what I grow, kill, or what I obtain in certified organic bulk from the local whole foods store.

I cook only over a living flame; wood.

I never drink chlorinated-fluoridated tap.

I am disgusted by the thought of bathing in such; but I do it anyway while I am in city limits and covered in the greater filth of city pollution.

Welcome to my wall, MrPenny.

I am,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by TheComte
Where are the victims from drinking water? Anyone?

They are all around you. It is why America sits back and does nothing while our country is systematically fleeced of its wealth and transfered to building China and India. It is not normal to do nothing while your country is robbed we have become docile and just lay down and take it.

The people of the 60's had not been exposed yet in quantity and length of time like we have. Its why they didn't take the BS big corporate was feeding them.

just some thoughts...

Fluoride can be:

Man-made
I have read many times that this particular Fluoride added to our water originated from factories. They didn't had any place to dispose of it. They then decided to use it for our drinking purposes.

Natural
Well...natural is natural. so Leave Nature alone.

Well now...the question is...are BOTH the same?
that...i do not know.

i guess everything has their pros and cons.
i am against the process of adding Fluoride to water of course!
how many people are suffering from TOO MUCH FLUORIDE in China and India.

and yes...it is also true we must strike a balance in everything. even an overdose of Vitamin C is...bad. too much of a good thing.

I do not know exactly if some organizations are actually...well you know..."controlled" by the governments to release certain "details" or perhaps even "facts" to the public. so not everything we hear or see is true...and even false as well. very complex...isn't it? Best i say is....Experience is your best teacher. hahaa..

just some thoughts....

I live in Colorado near Pikes Peak. That mountain is saturated with natural flourite. A favorite pass time is to go to the mountain and look for flourite crystals. They're everywhere; look like two pyramids base to base.
The city adds flouride so we take in massive amounts of flouride. All the long term residents have yellow brown teeth, especially children.
Fortunately I have space age bullet proof teeth.

Calcium Flourideis what is good for your teeth, it is applied topically and then spat out, the mouth is rinsed
- Poison Control must be called if .5mg or more is ingested.

Sodium Fluoride also known by the brand Stanis is not good for you. It is, as has been stated, a by-product of the aluminum and metals manufacturing process.

It is illegal to dump into the ocean, Rivers or any body of water, yet perfectly legal to be sold to municipalities who duly add it to their water supply.

This Sodium Fluoride (the kind in our water) is also in our tooth paste. A pea sized amount contains .5mg as does a 250 ml glass of Sodium Fluoridated Water.

Read the back of the Tooth paste tube, notice the warning that say you are to Call you Poison Control center Immediately. This pea sized amount contains .5 mg of Sodium Fluoride, the "recommended" 8 glasses of water per day contains 4 mg of Sodium Fluoride, exactly 8 times the amount stated as toxic on the back of the Toothpaste tube.

Read the back of your toothpaste tube if you do not believe me. Notice the warning? Notice how it is Sodium Fluoride and not Calcium Fluoride?

Remember, you can go to jail if you dump Sodium fluoride - even a small amount- into any body of water and yet countless amounts are added to our water supply each year... and it isn't even Calcium fluoride, Which occurs naturally and is the only type that helps prevent tooth decay (almost imperceptibly).

Sarin Nerve Gas is another variation of the Fluoride Molecule - Sodium Hexafluoride.

I pity us.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by doctormcauley]

reply to post by TheComte

I beg to differ my 14 year old daughter has no enamel on her teethe and we were told by the dentist that part of the reason is to much fluoride in the water. We lived in Kelowna at the time her adult teethe were forming in her gums, and at that time Kelowna was known to be one of the areas in Canada with the larger amounts of fluoride content in there water.

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

The question asked by TheComte, and ignored by many, bears repeating...

Where are the specific "victims"? The "victims" that have suffered measurable, debilitating damage from the flouridation of a municipal water supply? Your contribution is scary, yes.....but I have yet to see any solid data that reveals real, empirical, problems with the level of flouride in water systems. I can find data tht shows various health issues about a large number of food additives. Sulfur dioxide is a common food preservative.....when used properly. Large doses can make a person very ill. Just as many other substances.

Well, here's the deal: before there can be identifiable victims who've sustained measurable, debilitating damage, there needs to be widespread acknowledgment in the medical community that fluoride is a toxic substance with numerous carcinogenic, mutagenic, glandular, osteopathic and degenerative effects. And before that happens, there needs to be more studies that conclusively prove this. Considering the toxicity and pervasiveness of water fluoridation, there should be no doubts about it's safety and efficacy. It's kinda like proving the damaging effects of asbestos, cigarettes or dioxin 50 years ago.

The Fluoride Deception starts out with a world-renowned neurotoxicologist who invents a new technology that scientifically measures the biological and behavioral effects of various neurotoxins. A co-worker suggests that she use it to study fluoride. She agrees and is shocked by the results, but has no idea of the political hornet's nest she's about to enter.

It's a fascinating story. You can read about her "Alice in Wonderland" journey in the first five excerpt pages of The Fluoride Deception.

From Publishers Weekly

Concerns over fluoridated drinking water have long been derided as the obsession of McCarthyite cranks. But this muckraking j’accuse asserts that fluoride is indeed a dire threat to public health, one foisted upon the nation by a vast conspiracy — not of Communist agents, but of our very own military-industrial complex. Investigative reporter Bryson revisits the decades-long controversy, drawing on mountains of scientific studies, some unearthed from secret archives of government and corporate laboratories, to question the effects of fluoride and the motives of its leading advocates.

The efficacy of fluoridated drinking water in preventing tooth decay, he contends, is dubious. Fluoride in its many forms may be one of the most toxic of industrial pollutants, and Bryson cites scientific analyses linking fluoridated drinking water to bone deformities, hyperactivity and a host of other complaints. The post-war campaign to fluoridate drinking water, he claims, was less a public health innovation than a public relations ploy sponsored by industrial users of fluoride — including the government’s nuclear weapons program. Legendary spin doctors like Edward Bernays exploited the tenuous link between dental hygiene and fluoridation to create markets to stimulate fluoride production and to prove the innocuousness of fluoride compounds, thereby heading off lawsuits by factory workers and others poisoned by industrial fluoride pollution. Bryson marshals an impressive amount of research to demonstrate fluoride’s harmfulness, the ties between leading fluoride researchers and the corporations who funded and benefited from their research, and what he says is the duplicity with which fluoridation was sold to the people. The result is a compelling challenge to the reigning dental orthodoxy, which should provoke renewed scientific scrutiny and public debate.

Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Product Description

"It is my sincere hope that Christopher Bryson's apparently thorough and comprehensive perusal of the scientific literature on the biological actions of fluoride and the ensuing debates through the years will receive the attention it deserves and that its implications will be seriously considered." -Arvid Carlsson, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Medicine

"The Fluoride Deception reads like a whodunit. . . .We are left with compelling evidence that powerful interests with high financial stakes have colluded to prematurely close honest discussion and investigation into fluoride toxicity." -Chemical & Engineering News

"Previous authors have presented the idea of a deception, if not an outright conspiracy, involving fluoride. What makes Bryson's book unique is that it is an up-to-date account supported by indisputable new evidence in the form of declassified correspondence and exhumation of buried studies." -Fluoride

"As with landmark titles, such as Silent Spring, Bryson's book is bound to become a seminal volume." -British Columbia Naturopathic Association

With the narrative punch of Jonathan Harr's A Civil Action and the commitment to environmental truth-telling of Erin Brockovich, The Fluoride Deception leads us on a terrifying journey through the history of the industrial use of fluoride, a chemical substance that has risen steadily in status from a deadly environmental pollutant responsible for injuring thousands to a key component in the development of the atomic bomb to a staple ingredient in toothpaste and drinking water all across the United States.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by GoldenFleece]

Direct question to the op.. Do you still think sodium flouride is the same as natural flouride? Please research well before you make a post like this.. Sodium Flouride is a poison period.. Would you allow the water companies to dump lead into your water? ... And again call your local water utility ask them exactly what kind of flouride is dumped in the water... Then go to your local home depot store... and look for rat poison... you will find it is the same exact chemical... Why do you think this is so? because sodium flouride is odorless... which makes it the perfect poison... for rats and Humans alike