Fluoride is Natural in Water

Originally posted by Agent_Orange
Feces can also be natural in water, it doesn't mean it's healthy for us.

lol, I think i must in the kool-aid some are drinking as well!

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
You say fluoride is healthy, fine.

Nope, didn't "say" that. I'm suggesting it is, in minimal quantities, not harmful. Beyond a certain point, everything can be lethal. Too much pure, cold, clear spring water can kill you.

You're the one suggesting it's harmful in the normal levels used in municipal water systems. Anomalies, such as would occur in mechanical or system failures, allowing more than the correct amounts, are not particularly good examples for your outrage. They are statistically insignificant.

Your argument seems to be centered around being forced to intake some substance at the whim of the "powers that be"....goodness, makes me wonder what your reaction would be if you could look behind the curtains at food processing. Have you ever checked into what they do with chickens nowadays? I guarantee, unless you literally grow and process every morsel of food that enters your mouth, you are ingesting some of the most noxious concoctions imaginable.

But flouride in water really has you worked up.....okay, have another Twinkie.

About Fluoride

Look just read this.

It blows apart your false statements about natural fluoride and the chemical by-product that is placed in our water.

If you still say 'fluoride is natural in water' I will agree. If you still say that this harmful chemical by product added to water is the same as whats found in nature I will laugh at you and call you names.

How many times do i have to say this ? whats found in nature, and whats added to water is two entire different materials with one being natural and one being a by-product.

Enjoy your medication.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
You say fluoride is healthy, fine.

Nope, didn't "say" that. I'm suggesting it is, in minimal quantities, not harmful. Beyond a certain point, everything can be lethal. Too much pure, cold, clear spring water can kill you.

You're the one suggesting it's harmful in the normal levels used in municipal water systems. Anomalies, such as would occur in mechanical or system failures, allowing more than the correct amounts, are not particularly good examples for your outrage. They are statistically insignificant.

Your argument seems to be centered around being forced to intake some substance at the whim of the "powers that be"....goodness, makes me wonder what your reaction would be if you could look behind the curtains at food processing. Have you ever checked into what they do with chickens nowadays? I guarantee, unless you literally grow and process every morsel of food that enters your mouth, you are ingesting some of the most noxious concoctions imaginable.

But flouride in water really has you worked up.....okay, have another Twinkie.

Ok, let me go though this again. If you look at my posts you will see that I am in fact the only one that never contested whether fluoride is good or not. When I say "fine" I mean I'm happy to concede the point to you that fluoride isn't harmful in small doses. I don't even think there's a conspiracy here. Forget fluoride, it's not about fluoride.
Yes I eat at McDonalds, I smoke, I drink, but I do all of those things by choice. My choice!
So if I want to take a fluoride supplement I will, but I just don't want to concede that choice to the government.
Substitute fluoride with elixir of youth and it is still wrong to force it on the population!

[edit on 16-6-2008 by schrodingers dog]

I've been doing a little a bit of research in regards to fluoride in water after I came across a thread on ATS. I was very displeased to find out that my county In England fluorides it's water Most of Britain is fluoride free, except for the Midlands and some parts of the North-West.

My position on the subject is, I brush my teeth twice a day. I go to the dentist every three months. My teeth are perfect and healthy. I don't need my god dam water to be treated with crap.

I've drastically cut down on drinking tap water. I only use tap water to cook. If I could afford to completely cut the tap water out, I would.

My question to you very knowledgeable people is, Which is the best mineral water to buy In Britain? I've been buying highland spring and Evian.

Many thanks.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I mean I'm happy to concede the point to you that fluoride isn't harmful in small doses. [...]Yes I eat at McDonalds, I smoke, I drink, but I do all of those things by choice. My choice![...]it is still wrong to force it on the population!

Okay, so we agree flouride in small doses is not harmful. We agree you eat crappy food, smoke, and drink....by your choice; as do I.

You have a choice in water too. Go buy water without flouride. You've already shown the willingness to spend money on food and other items that may have questionable qualities.....So spend some money on something positive.

You have the choice to not eat at McDonalds, not smoke, and not drink. But you continue to pursue less than healthy habits, while conveniently ignoring the choice you have in drinking water....the use of which would completely eliminate your concerns about some condition being "forced" on you.

Exercise your choice....drink bottled water. It could be easily afforded if the cost of cigarettes disappeared from your budget.

reply to post by MrPenny


Yes, I do drink bottled water, not for that reason, but that's neither here or there. But this isn't about me, it's about the principle of freedom. What if I couldn't afford it?

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
it's about the principle of freedom.

Thus, you're free to complain about it. You're also free to drink some other liquid. You're even free to go live in a country that does not flouridate its municipal water supply. You're free to buy a flouride filter.

What if you can't afford it? You're kidding right? You pay hard earned money to burn a stick of paper and tobacco, fouling your lungs, making your breath horrible, etc.....(I smoke myself, this is not a lecture, just reality). Yet, it's an issue whether you can afford flouride free water?

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by dervishmadwhirler
Silly post, actually (in my opinion:lol

Hey, man go ahead and drink your fluoridated water, drink whatever the fork you like.

Your post is silly as well as it doesn't provide any evidence that the levels of fluoride in water are harmful. Nor does it address the fact that fluoride is natural in water.
And, thank you, I will drink water. Since it's not dangerous.

The government in Amsterdam doesnt fluoridate water and the water in Amsterdam is deemed the best in the world.
Ingesting fluoride doesnt do any good for the teeth, anyway.

Nice try. Amsterdam has the best water in the Netherlands not the world, sometimes only in the top 3. But, congratulations on having good tap water. Here is the reason, not because it's not fluoridated.

The reason that the tap water is of this high quality is that the water company (Waternet) has an advanced and innovative water purification system, and constantly invests in the latest technology.
www.simplyamsterdam.nl...

This post is clearly again one of those posts that doesnt want to prove anything, but tries to discredit and divert attention.
From your previous reactions and posts it is becoming clear that you have a certain hatred for people who mistrust authoritiy as we have it now.
Anyway, join the conspiracy if you will, but do not begrudge people their own choice.

You could be talking about your own post with this statement. And, no, I don't hate people who mistrust authority. I do myself but in this case there is no proof that fluoridation harms people; there is evidence that it does prevent tooth decay. Plus, it occurs naturally in most water.

Well, as to the evidence; if you scroll up, you will find oodles of links; they only havent been provided by me.
I am getting tired of people constantly starting threads that seem to disregard all the evidence provided by doctors and dentists and researchers about this. When the levels of fluoride we ingest rise, due to the fluoridization of drinkwater and other ingestables, it becomes toxic.
Toxic levels of fluoride have as an effect the inability to make one's own decisions (check a portion of the abovementioned links or, youtube "the fluoride deception" or ANY of the sources you say do not exist.)
It seems you think this forum is a sort of war of polemic, which in my case totally is not the case. I do not wish to win a polemic battle, but I have just had enough of all the aggressive attacks on what in my opinion has been documented and proven a long time ago. Fuoridization of water can be harmful. One never knows the amount of fluoride a person already ingests and fluoridizing the water can raise the levels in a person's body to unwanted effects.
Yes! natural water has some fluoride in it.

But: we wish to have a choice in when and how we ingest possible toxins.
Government fluoridization bypasses our choice; therefor it is a dictate.
I do not wish to be dictated what to believe and choose and what not, again it is not a championship of polemics in which the best word-user is the one that gets to be the one who tells the truth. Scientific research has proven that elevated levels of fluoride are toxic. I do not want to be poisoned.
In my opinion, your "getting tired of..." as stated in the OP is entirely YOUR problem.
But fluoridization and toxicity of fluoride are MY problem as well as YOURS. You may not as yet see it that way, but I prefer to at least stay vigilant, concerning noticable and reported toxic effects...
And, furthermore, I do not start threads about me "getting tired of people debunking what cant be totally debunked" -again, no disrespect intended.
I am sorry for not PERSONALLY providing links, but I CAN refer you to the sources that google can provide at a press of a button or a click.

reply to post by MrPenny


Oh man, did I not say that it's not about me? Did I not say I don't care about fluoride?
According to your logic the poor deserve to be subjected to the whims of the government.
In any case, I suspect you understand perfectly but just enjoy being contrary.
So you stay cool giving up your rights. I'm gonna exercise my right not to stop you.

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by dervishmadwhirler
Silly post, actually (in my opinion:lol

Hey, man go ahead and drink your fluoridated water, drink whatever the fork you like.

Your post is silly as well as it doesn't provide any evidence that the levels of fluoride in water are harmful. Nor does it address the fact that fluoride is natural in water.
And, thank you, I will drink water. Since it's not dangerous.

The government in Amsterdam doesnt fluoridate water and the water in Amsterdam is deemed the best in the world.
Ingesting fluoride doesnt do any good for the teeth, anyway.

Nice try. Amsterdam has the best water in the Netherlands not the world, sometimes only in the top 3. But, congratulations on having good tap water. Here is the reason, not because it's not fluoridated.

The reason that the tap water is of this high quality is that the water company (Waternet) has an advanced and innovative water purification system, and constantly invests in the latest technology.
www.simplyamsterdam.nl...

This post is clearly again one of those posts that doesnt want to prove anything, but tries to discredit and divert attention.
From your previous reactions and posts it is becoming clear that you have a certain hatred for people who mistrust authoritiy as we have it now.
Anyway, join the conspiracy if you will, but do not begrudge people their own choice.

You could be talking about your own post with this statement. And, no, I don't hate people who mistrust authority. I do myself but in this case there is no proof that fluoridation harms people; there is evidence that it does prevent tooth decay. Plus, it occurs naturally in most water.

Well, as to the evidence; if you scroll up, you will find oodles of links; they only havent been provided by me.
I am getting tired of people constantly starting threads that seem to disregard all the evidence provided by doctors and dentists and researchers about this. When the levels of fluoride we ingest rise, due to the fluoridization of drinkwater and other ingestables, it becomes toxic.
Toxic levels of fluoride have as an effect the inability to make one's own decisions (check a portion of the abovementioned links or, youtube "the fluoride deception" or ANY of the sources you say do not exist.)
It seems you think this forum is a sort of war of polemic, which in my case totally is not the case. I do not wish to win a polemic battle, but I have just had enough of all the aggressive attacks on what in my opinion has been documented and proven a long time ago. Fuoridization of water can be harmful. One never knows the amount of fluoride a person already ingests and fluoridizing the water can raise the levels in a person's body to unwanted effects.
Yes! natural water has some fluoride in it.

But: we wish to have a choice in when and how we ingest possible toxins.
Government fluoridization bypasses our choice; therefor it is a dictate.
I do not wish to be dictated what to believe and choose and what not, again it is not a championship of polemics in which the best word-user is the one that gets to be the one who tells the truth. Scientific research has proven that elevated levels of fluoride are toxic. I do not want to be poisoned.
In my opinion, your "getting tired of..." as stated in the OP is entirely YOUR problem.
But fluoridization and toxicity of fluoride are MY problem as well as YOURS. You may not as yet see it that way, but I prefer to at least stay vigilant, concerning noticable and reported toxic effects...
And, furthermore, I do not start threads about me "getting tired of people debunking what cant be totally debunked" -again, no disrespect intended.
I am sorry for not PERSONALLY providing links, but I CAN refer you to the sources that google can provide at a press of a button or a click.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Many foods are already fortified with iron and vitamins. What's your point? Vitamins are bad for you? They probably are, in extremely high doses. Does that mean there's a conspiracy to dose our food with vitamins? No. Same with fluoridation. Is that clear to you now?

Listen, fluoridation began back in the 40s and 50s, at least in the US. The decision was made to fluoridate the water because studies showed it prevented tooth decay and was not toxic. I don't know how individual municipalities came to their decision to do it, whether by referendum or city council vote, but I'm sure it was democratic. Show me that it wasn't. Just because you weren't around to cast your vote on the issue you cry that it's against your consent. If you don't like it, don't drink it. But don't go around saying there's a conspiracy to poison people. Facts don't bear it out.

Fluoride does not accumulate in the body. It is expelled harmlessly within 24 hours.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by TheComte]

[edit on 16-6-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
According to your logic the poor deserve to be subjected to the whims of the government.

You'll need to support that conclusion with some examples of how my logic indicates that opinion......I already know you can't....you just made it up.

So you stay cool giving up your rights.

Your entire argument has dissolved into hyperbole and rhetoric. Equating my nonchalance about water flouridation to "giving up my rights" is grandstanding at it's worst.

You're right...I do know exactly what you're writing and trying to get at. I continue because I think you're reasoning is wrong. You haven't shown why the practice is a degradation of freedoms. You simply keep repeating yourself. I, on the other hand, have shown with examples just how many freedoms and choices are available. Bringing poverty into the discussion is deflection.....the problem there isn't flouridation of water, nor the "whims of the government"....it's poverty.

First let's clarify something here. The fluoride that is in most drinking water,

and should be of concern to those that care about their health is referred to

as inorganic fluoride. It is a by product of the glass and aluminum manufactur-

ing industries. Instead of throwing this toxic waste out as should be done, it is

pumped into our drinking water, and we are told of the myriad benefits of it.

But don't worry, if you're doctor says it's good for you then it must be good for

you. Now there is another form of fluoride which is naturally occurring, simply

referred to as organic fluoride. This is not a problem like the other version.

But if you still don't believe this is possible, go ahead keep drinking your

filthy tap water and you will soon be chemically lobotomized in the not so

distant future. Enjoy.

The water m'Bride and I drink does not have any fluoride it it. How do I know this? We have sampled and had atomic absorbtion tests conducted upon it, as well as our well water. These are extremely expensive tests, and only by virtue of an association I had with an analytical laboratory in Calif. before we left there, were we able to do so. Thank you folks (you know who you are, if you should happen to be reading).

We drink rainwater. Pure and simple. Nitrogen infused, and rain that falls through an unpolluted sky, from the clouds to us. My background is in chemistry; albeit, it was a long time ago that I was immersed in the rigors of saturations and regularly using Avogadro's Number (although I can still recall the constant). I believe Fluoride to be a cumulative poison, acting upon the cellular wall much in the way that metals do, cumulating until they reach a critical point of [possibly irreversible] damage. I also believe that Fluoride is beneficial as a tooth decay deterrant, in that it bonds to the interstecies in the outer layer of the tooth..... filling the minute holes, if you will.

Still, I'm not certain it's worth the risk. I'm 50 years old, have done the usual brushing and flossing, have excellent dental health, as well as overall health, and we will continue to filter our water with de ol' Big Berkey until it or us gives out. People say things like "any cistern that frogs live in is good water." Yah. I don't care to drink frog piss or fecal coliforms, thanks. Thus the filtration.

thunder rumbling...... gottta flee offline!

Thanks OP, for the mental candy Always good to debate things with folks....... find our way

Cheers

Originally posted by greydawn
First let's clarify something here. The fluoride that is in most drinking water,
and should be of concern to those that care about their health is referred to
as inorganic fluoride. It is a by product of the glass and aluminum manufacturing industries. Instead of throwing this toxic waste out as should be done, it is pumped into our drinking water, and we are told of the myriad benefits of it. But don't worry, if you're doctor says it's good for you then it must be good for you.

Now there is another form of fluoride which is naturally occurring, simply
referred to as organic fluoride. This is not a problem like the other version.
But if you still don't believe this is possible, go ahead keep drinking your
filthy tap water and you will soon be chemically lobotomized in the not so
distant future. Enjoy.

Um, wrong. Inorganic fluorides are just a subgroup of all compounds that contain fluorine. Inorganic fluorides do not contain carbon. It occurs naturally as well. Read this link about inorganic fluorides. And read where it says the levels in Canadian lakes and rivers is .05 milligrams per litre which is way less then the 1mg/litre which is safe level for humans.

www.ec.gc.ca...

My tap water is pure spring water. If you buy Nestle bottled water you may be drinking the same stuff as me. Is there an example of even a single "chemically lobotomized" person caused by fluoride poisoning? No. Care to try again?

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Are you serious? Go ahead laugh at me while I am ROFL at you. At least I try to cite credible sources. Just look at this website. No wonder you disguise the link.

www.greaterthings.com...

The first thing I see is "For the establishment of Zion..." Please tell me what makes this more credible than the sources I used. Please...tell me...I can't wait.

You go ahead and believe that if you want. And you think my mental faculties are diminished because of drinking the water...sheesh.

Isn't what I want in my water a matter of personal freedom?

www.fluorideinfo.org...

Some people against water fluoridation feel fluoridating a community water supply impinges on their personal freedom. They feel they are "medicated against their will." In fact, filters are available whereby individuals can de-fluoridate their water, or they can drink distilled water. Furthermore, participation in civil society in Humboldt County involves numerous examples where public policies are initiated for the common good, considering that the risks to an individual are absent or minimal. The law requiring use of helmets by motorcyclists "infringes on personal freedom" to protect society from the burden of caring for an injured individual. Vitamin D is added to milk, iodine is added to table salt and folic acid is added to cereals to prevent diseases arising from nutrient deficiency states. Immunizations are required for children to attend school. Children who cite religious beliefs to be exempted from immunizations would not be free to attend school if they were exposed to measles, however. Fluoridation is considered by the public health community to be one of the top 10 effective public health measures of the 20th century and the courts, either in direct judgments or on appeal, has universally upheld this view.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by TheComte]

Fluoride does not accumulate in the body. It is expelled harmlessly within 24 hours.

[

LOL.

) Fluoride is the only chemical added to drinking water for the purpose of medication (to prevent tooth decay). All other treatment chemicals are added to treat the water (to improve the water's quality and safety - which fluoride does not do). This is one of the reasons why most of Europe has rejected fluoridation. For instance:

In Germany, "The argumentation of the Federal Ministry of Health against a general permission of fluoridation of drinking water is the problematic nature of compulsion medication."

In Belgium, it is "the fundamental position of the drinking water sector that it is not its task to deliver medicinal treatment to people. This is the sole responsibility of health services."

In Luxembourg, "In our views, drinking water isn't the suitable way for medicinal treatment and that people needing an addition of fluoride can decide by their own to use the most appropriate way."

ooohhh and this.....

Babies exposed to fluoride are at high risk of developing dental fluorosis - a permanent tooth defect caused by fluoride damaging the cells which form the teeth (5). Other tissues in the body may also be affected by early-life exposures to fluoride. According to a recent review published in the medical journal The Lancet, fluoride may damage the developing brain, causing learning deficits and other problems (6).

The lancet reviewed...you do know what the lancet is i hope ? after all your so sure of your facts about the saftey of fluoride in the water....

10 FACTS about fluoride

Look your arguments weak. I have PROVEN that natural fluoride and the medication in water are two seperate chemical compounds... one is natural, THE OTHER IS A BY-PRODUCT OF A CHEMICAL PROCESS.

Yes fluoride occurs in nature.... but the process of fluoride production is MAN MADE. It is medication, NOT NATURAL.

There is a huge difference.

reply to post by Dan Tanna


You are still confused by fluorine and its compounds. Inorganic fluorides occur naturally as well as a byproduct of industrial processes. And yes, at least the Lancet is a bit more credible than the last source you linked...LOL

My arguments have 50 years of studies to back them up. Your arguments are conspiracy theories.

The story that I heard is that the use of fluoride came about because the people of Borger Texas had abnormally healthy teeth. It was supposedly attributed to the high amount of fluoride in the drinking water. There is a sculpture of huge tooth with a sign that reads "The Town Without A Toothache" somewhere in the town. The people in the area may not have toothaches but their teeth are covered with a brown scale that tooth paste won't remove.