Republicans block measure s.3044 in attempt to investigate gas gouging

reply to post by Janky Red


WTF your link says

Vote Number: 146 Vote Date: June 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Rejected
Measure Number: S. 3044 (Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices, and for other purposes.

Why are you talking about a vote over 2 years old??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

WTF your link says

Vote Number: 146 Vote Date: June 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Rejected
Measure Number: S. 3044 (Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices, and for other purposes.

Why are you talking about a vote over 2 years old??

If you are not in the US and you are not just posing n' lying why do you care???

This examines a pro Big Boy GOP attitude that Americans pay for just the same as taxed spending on behalf of the government, last I heard $25 extra on a tank of gas is much more stout than any tax levied at a gas pump.

Thanks

reply to post by Janky Red


Have you read this thing?

The Summary is not that long, but it certainly isn't the best batch of cookies.

5/20/2008--Introduced.
Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to: (1) deny major integrated oil companies (i.e., companies producing at least 500,000 barrels of crude oil daily) a tax deduction for income attributable to domestic production of oil, gas, or primary products thereof; (2) conform tax treatment of foreign oil and gas extraction income and foreign oil related income for purposes of the foreign tax credit; (3) impose a windfall profits tax on major integrated oil companies; and (4) establish an Energy Independence and Security Trust Fund funded by revenues raised by the tax provisions of this Act to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign and unsustainable energy sources and reduce the risks of global warming.

Translation: tax the piss out of it, especially if it is produced in the U.S.

Petroleum Consumer Price Gouging Protection Act - Declares it unlawful for a supplier to sell crude oil, gasoline, petroleum distillates, or biofuel at an unconscionably excessive price in an area for which the President declares that an energy emergency exists. Grants the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) authority to enforce this Act.

Will have to read the full bill to see exactly what is used to determine "excessive price."

Authorizes the President to declare a federal energy emergency if the well-being of U.S. citizens is at risk because of a shortage or imminent shortage of adequate supplies of crude oil, gasoline, petroleum distillates, or biofuel because of: (1) a disruption in the national distribution system; or (2) significant pricing anomalies in the national energy markets for such products.
Authorizes state attorneys general to bring civil actions to enforce this Act. Sets forth civil and criminal penalties for violations.

Because the IRS is not intimidating enough, apparently.

Directs the Secretaries of Energy and the Interior to suspend acquisition of petroleum for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve until December 31, 2008.

.... Why?

No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act of 2008 or NOPEC - Amends the Sherman Act to make it illegal for any foreign state to act with another foreign state to: (1) limit the production or distribution of oil, natural gas, or any other petroleum product; (2) set or maintain prices for such products; or (3) otherwise take any action in restraint of trade for such products. Denies sovereign immunity or act of state doctrine protections for foreign states who engage in such such illegal conduct. Amends the Commodity Exchange Act to require the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) to: (1) determine that foreign boards of trade subject to CFTC jurisdiction regulate and provide information on off-shore oil trading; and (2) set a substantial increase in margin levels for all oil futures trades, contracts, or transactions.

So... attempts to claim other sovereign nations under U.S. jurisdiction? If I'm reading that correctly? .... That's sure to go over -really- well. Or perhaps it just declares their actions illegal and bans them from selling to the U.S. - but I don't really see how that helps much.

The last part, if I'm reading it correctly, will allow the trading of more oil futures (selling oil and other commodities on paper only)... unless I have the meaning of that phrase inverted, somehow.

Even if the "NOPEC" act has any merit to it at all - there is enough "WTF" in that bill to vote it down. That whole first section would need to go before I even considered it - and that's on the presumption I'm reading the last section entirely wrong and it is a rather sensible set of changes.

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Have you read this thing?

The Summary is not that long, but it certainly isn't the best batch of cookies.

5/20/2008--Introduced.
Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to: (1) deny major integrated oil companies (i.e., companies producing at least 500,000 barrels of crude oil daily) a tax deduction for income attributable to domestic production of oil, gas, or primary products thereof; (2) conform tax treatment of foreign oil and gas extraction income and foreign oil related income for purposes of the foreign tax credit; (3) impose a windfall profits tax on major integrated oil companies; and (4) establish an Energy Independence and Security Trust Fund funded by revenues raised by the tax provisions of this Act to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign and unsustainable energy sources and reduce the risks of global warming.

Translation: tax the piss out of it, especially if it is produced in the U.S.

Petroleum Consumer Price Gouging Protection Act - Declares it unlawful for a supplier to sell crude oil, gasoline, petroleum distillates, or biofuel at an unconscionably excessive price in an area for which the President declares that an energy emergency exists. Grants the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) authority to enforce this Act.

Will have to read the full bill to see exactly what is used to determine "excessive price."

Authorizes the President to declare a federal energy emergency if the well-being of U.S. citizens is at risk because of a shortage or imminent shortage of adequate supplies of crude oil, gasoline, petroleum distillates, or biofuel because of: (1) a disruption in the national distribution system; or (2) significant pricing anomalies in the national energy markets for such products.
Authorizes state attorneys general to bring civil actions to enforce this Act. Sets forth civil and criminal penalties for violations.

Because the IRS is not intimidating enough, apparently.

Directs the Secretaries of Energy and the Interior to suspend acquisition of petroleum for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve until December 31, 2008.

.... Why?

No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act of 2008 or NOPEC - Amends the Sherman Act to make it illegal for any foreign state to act with another foreign state to: (1) limit the production or distribution of oil, natural gas, or any other petroleum product; (2) set or maintain prices for such products; or (3) otherwise take any action in restraint of trade for such products. Denies sovereign immunity or act of state doctrine protections for foreign states who engage in such such illegal conduct. Amends the Commodity Exchange Act to require the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) to: (1) determine that foreign boards of trade subject to CFTC jurisdiction regulate and provide information on off-shore oil trading; and (2) set a substantial increase in margin levels for all oil futures trades, contracts, or transactions.

So... attempts to claim other sovereign nations under U.S. jurisdiction? If I'm reading that correctly? .... That's sure to go over -really- well. Or perhaps it just declares their actions illegal and bans them from selling to the U.S. - but I don't really see how that helps much.

The last part, if I'm reading it correctly, will allow the trading of more oil futures (selling oil and other commodities on paper only)... unless I have the meaning of that phrase inverted, somehow.

Even if the "NOPEC" act has any merit to it at all - there is enough "WTF" in that bill to vote it down. That whole first section would need to go before I even considered it - and that's on the presumption I'm reading the last section entirely wrong and it is a rather sensible set of changes.

Well I expect that conservatives would not like this, because it interferes with business by attempting to curb behavior with penalty, sort of like, law...

I do not take issue with the bill, some the WTF you see is FINALLY for me -

As it is the inaction/blocking helped ensure the Second largest transfer of wealth as an event went on unfettered , in this I would say your decision to remain passive as foolish. This proxy tax elite shakedown really served as the final straw leading to the 2008 crash... There was no competing GOP bill - IMO that is a bigger WTF

I was ripped off, you were ripped off - same money as tax money, just as green...

So... attempts to claim other sovereign nations under U.S. jurisdiction? If I'm reading that correctly? .... That's sure to go over -really- well. Or perhaps it just declares their actions illegal and bans them from selling to the U.S. - but I don't really see how that helps much.

So lets not pussyfoot -

In short you are saying the Gasoline consuming American public has no recourse in the event of gouging less Jesus and Optimism??? It is funny how focused pessimistic insistence can force optimism

America land of getting ripped of by the Princes of the Middle East - cause your only free to take it

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Have you read this thing?

The Summary is not that long, but it certainly isn't the best batch of cookies....

>snip

Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Have you read this thing?

The Summary is not that long, but it certainly isn't the best batch of cookies....

>snip

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

WTF your link says

Vote Number: 146 Vote Date: June 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Rejected
Measure Number: S. 3044 (Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices, and for other purposes.

Why are you talking about a vote over 2 years old??

If you are not in the US and you are not just posing n' lying why do you care???

This examines a pro Big Boy GOP attitude that Americans pay for just the same as taxed spending on behalf of the government, last I heard $25 extra on a tank of gas is much more stout than any tax levied at a gas pump.

Thanks

edit on 12-11-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

No I'm not in the US, I'm in Australia and we are being ripped off far worse than you guys.
What I take offence at is fools like you insulting me and accusing me of lying..

Exactly which bit was a lie???
The Dems holding a majority or this news being over 2 years old???

reply to post by Janky Red


Wow.... That was so witty, and childish.

reply to post by Janky Red

This examines a pro Big Boy GOP attitude that Americans pay for just the same as taxed spending on behalf of the government, last I heard $25 extra on a tank of gas is much more stout than any tax levied at a gas pump.

Mate I'm in OZ and your profile says you are in Russia say I can say what I want...

Ya know what, I'd rather pay tax today for todays gas than have my great,great grandchildren paying for the debt Obama and his cronies have added by financing their mates at the bank...
Insult me all you wish..

Originally posted by abecedarian
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Wow.... That was so witty, and childish.

Thanks - yours was so defeatist and servant-like

I am glad you agree, nothing can be done when it is done to you by a logo, a crown or a Billionaire

Like I said they had their way - justice was served, praise be!

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

This examines a pro Big Boy GOP attitude that Americans pay for just the same as taxed spending on behalf of the government, last I heard $25 extra on a tank of gas is much more stout than any tax levied at a gas pump.

Mate I'm in OZ and your profile says you are in Russia say I can say what I want...

Ya know what, I'd rather pay tax today for todays gas than have my great,great grandchildren paying for the debt Obama and his cronies have added by financing their mates at the bank...
Insult me all you wish..

HELL ya, Obamas Crony Bush set that up real well mate, his home boys set up $5.50 gas too and and 2 trillion dollar war and 5 trillion in the Stock Market - then Bush's Bailout, Obama's stimulus

Ah but this, this KICKED IT ALL OFF

Thanks GOP!!!

Masters be praised!

reply to post by Janky Red


Yeah right...Since that very long ago date the Dems have had two years of majority to right this wrong as you call it...
Guess what? Obama and his Dems didn't do it..Can you tell me if they even tried?????
The Dems just got hammered...Get over it!!!

reply to post by Janky Red


And where is this $5.50 gas you speak of??
You were shown to be wrong even on that point...

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

And where is this $5.50 gas you speak of??
You were shown to be wrong even on that point...

Thank god gas is no longer 5.50 -

And yes attacking semantics makes the gouging of the entire US population OK

Just Wonderful

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Yeah right...Since that very long ago date the Dems have had two years of majority to right this wrong as you call it...
Guess what? Obama and his Dems didn't do it..Can you tell me if they even tried?????
The Dems just got hammered...Get over it!!!

OK Murdoch - whichever - America is screwed

The Big Boys have free Polizi - they win - game up

Trained slaves work dutifully for free

Nothing to be over

reply to post by Janky Red

Well I expect that conservatives would not like this, because it interferes with business by attempting to curb behavior with penalty, sort of like, law...

What it would have done is taxed the unholy hell out of oil, natural gas, and other similar industries within the U.S. In that same paragraph, they mention wanting to limit dependence on foreign oil and non-renewable resources. Kind of counter friggin' productive, don't you think?

It doesn't do much to curb the bad policies - all it does is say "well, if we think you are selling fuel for too much, then we'll let some lawyers in suits crawl all over you." That aim is on local companies in the "last mile" of distribution that will occasionally hike prices when cars start lining up outside the pumps for whatever crazy reason they have for trying to hoard gas. It does little/nothing to curb large industries.

As it is the inaction/blocking helped ensure the Second largest transfer of wealth as an event went on unfettered , in this I would say your decision to remain passive as foolish.

I'm not following your line of reasoning here, probably because I'm simply not aware of this massive transfer of wealth, or how this bill would have done anything to prevent it - there is no provision for it in the summary, perhaps in the full version, but it's not a piece of legislation even being considered at this point in time (there are other, more current proposals making their way through committees).

This proxy tax elite shakedown really served as the final straw leading to the 2008 crash... There was no competing GOP bill - IMO that is a bigger WTF

You're confused, my friend. This was on the periphery of the 2008 collapse, at best.

As for no competing GOP bill - there are always different bills being passed through committees backed by certain interests and parties or another. There are more bills working through committees at any given time than there are representatives. This bill, in particular, was introduced by Harry Reid - that alone should be an indication that it needs to be set on fire. In either case - the Republicans have had similar bills, and the democrats have had other similar bills. Bills don't necessarily "compete."

I was ripped off, you were ripped off - same money as tax money, just as green...

There are much bigger travesties being committed. This bill would not have done anything to change prices at the pump for you - spare for make them even more expensive.

In short you are saying the Gasoline consuming American public has no recourse in the event of gouging less Jesus and Optimism??? It is funny how focused pessimistic insistence can force optimism

I'm saying that the U.S. should not set a precedent for imposing legal jurisdiction on the international market unless it is willing to pursue open war. The UAE is flying models of the F-16 more advanced than we operate (we should know - we built them under contract to the UAE). Start messing with their bread and butter - and things will start exploding in a hell of a hurry.

Now - that's fine. I've considered getting out of the military and joining a private defense contractor, and the type of war we'd be fighting against industrial interests would not be one we want uniformed soldiers fighting - kind of looks bad.

But - really - do you want the U.S. asserting itself as a police force with jurisdiction over foreign economies? Sure - we have interests we need to protect - but we're taxing the balls off of our in-house production of oil/natural gas with this bill. Then we want to turn around and say "we need oil, and you are charging us too much?" I mean - I couldn't care less if we made slaves out of the rest of the world - but I think the rest of the world does have a problem with that.

America land of getting ripped of by the Princes of the Middle East - cause your only free to take it

Well, the REAL solution to all of this high priced oil stuff would be to go to war with one of these oil tycoons of foreign nations, take over, implant a puppet government, give our industries control over all oil assets, and mandate their oil reserves go to us for a fixed price on the barrel as part of reparations.

Oh, wait - supposedly that evil Bush guy did all of that.... started a war for oil.... except... there's practically no damned oil coming from Iraq to the U.S. Nor is it owned by U.S. companies that Bush was supposed to be all buddy-buddy with... what kind of evil dictator doesn't even rape and pillage the country he conquers?

Anyway - none of these bills usually make it to the floor because the democrats tend to want to tax the piss out of everything and the republicans tend to not like arbitrary regulation of businesses. Neither is able to compromise or, God Forbid, write legislation based on economic and statistical facts - so they all stall in committees or get struck down on the floor.

Welcome to American politics, where anything and everything but the problem at hand is to be included in every bill so no bill will ever pass without 3000 pages of lawyer-babble attached to it.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

This examines a pro Big Boy GOP attitude that Americans pay for just the same as taxed spending on behalf of the government, last I heard $25 extra on a tank of gas is much more stout than any tax levied at a gas pump.

Mate I'm in OZ and your profile says you are in Russia say I can say what I want...

Ya know what, I'd rather pay tax today for todays gas than have my great,great grandchildren paying for the debt Obama and his cronies have added by financing their mates at the bank...
Insult me all you wish..

The bank bailout was put together and rammed through the Congress by Hank Paulson and George W Bush. John Boener actually cried on the House floor in support of the TARP bill. It amazes me how stupid most politically concerned people are. All Obvama ever did to TARP was require the banksters to pay back the 2nd half of the 700 billion they got. The 1st half Bush gave them, free and clear. "No strings attached, or I won't sign the bill." is what Bush promised as the crash loomed over the entire world's financial structure. The DNC Congress compromised by only allowing 1/2 to be distributed before the administration change. Then Obama came in and attached strings to the 2nd half. That started the accusations that he was "taking over the banks". Screw you people. It can't mean that much to you if you won't even bother to get the facts correct.

Regardless of who voted for or against any measure to prevent gouging of consumers, people have to realize that nothing will ever change unless they deal with this kind of crap first.

The oil industry, like almost every other industry left in this country, is just a way to make the richest of the rich . . . well . . . richer and there ain't a money grubbing politician out there who will ever do a damn thing about it until we, the people, lock and load.

I'm just that kinda pissed about how nicely we're swirling the bowl and those in positions of power are quite frankly giggling at our ongoing arguments about which side did what to who when in reality, both sides are the same butt-drilling bastards.

While we're focused on placing blame, those who fund the campaigns to make sure Frick or Frack get elected simply get richer because BOTH SIDES OF THE FLOOR ARE INHABITED BY THE SAME EVIL PANDERING MONEY GRUBBING ROTTEN LYING CHEATING THIEVING BASTARDS . . .

I'm going outside for a smoke before I give myself an aneurysm

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Janky Red

 

What it would have done is taxed the unholy hell out of oil, natural gas, and other similar industries within the U.S. In that same paragraph, they mention wanting to limit dependence on foreign oil and non-renewable resources. Kind of counter friggin' productive, don't you think?

Yeh, exactly, within the US. Yknow, companies like BP that are basically running roughshod over our country, basically for free. Why do you think BP is selling the idea "We are responsible, we will be here" so much? Because nothing COMPELS them to be here except HUGE PROFITS, and the fact that they know we arent gonna mess with them. See gigantic oil spill in gulf that no one got arrested for, much less personally fined. Poor Tony lost his job (with a golden parachute) and will drift away into obscurity, or more likely, another high paying CEO job for another oil company.

Originally posted by Aim64C
It doesn't do much to curb the bad policies - all it does is say "well, if we think you are selling fuel for too much, then we'll let some lawyers in suits crawl all over you." That aim is on local companies in the "last mile" of distribution that will occasionally hike prices when cars start lining up outside the pumps for whatever crazy reason they have for trying to hoard gas. It does little/nothing to curb large industries.

If you even believe what you wrote right there.......cmon, so if there is litigation possible, youre telling me the oversight committee is going to waste its time prosecuting thousands of small cases across the country, instead of the huge cases that affect EVERY citizen? Actually youre probably right, because if the law got passed, the companies would probably just pay for republicans to fill the oversight positions.

And the most ridiculous things I have read on this thread regard the Bush administration - it was a widely known and reported fact, here in america and around the world, even pre-bush presidency that he was a "texas oil man", and would be favorable to Big Oil. The only place I see this disputed is here (and other oil threads!).