More secret files found on train

Originally posted by Ste2652
Still, one wonders why MI5 and MI6 want to fight each other... surely they have plenty of external enemies to be going on with?

More competition not fighting.

MI5 deals with the domestic stuff and MI6 the international community. The criticism of MI5, including by MI6, it acts like a secret police in the United Kingdom. MI5 is more secret about their activities than MI6.

Ireland during the 1970s led to fighting between MI5 and MI6, both organisations have investigated each other in the past (even tried arresting). Cold war led to other problems between the two too.

Originally posted by infinite
Ireland during the 1970s led to fighting between MI5 and MI6, both organisations have investigated each other in the past (even tried arresting). Cold war led to other problems between the two too.

Out of the two, the Irish trouble were i think the more decisive showing of their rivalry. The whole steaknife affair was apparently a major concern and caused some heavy questions to be asked.

I hope those documents are released some day in full. Shayler and Tomlinson both speak of this heavy rivalry. However it may simply be that some government minister has angered a high up intelligence officer. I know that might sound slightly far fetched but whenever ihear things come out about a politician i do wonder if the intelligence services havn't stepped in to cause the trouble.

That's slightly conspiracy though so i'll stick to my original point. If it were foreign agents or a simple frustrated civil servant then they would have posted it online anonymously to inform the public. The fact this didn't happen says to me there is some deep politics going on within our own government. first we had the computer leaks, then the leaks of cd's and disks, now it's hardcopy.

Someone is trying to undermine either the government, or it's sister service.

If it were foreign agents then:

1) They wouldn't be left on a train. They'd be smuggled into the nation in question's embassy in London, put into the diplomatic bag and then sent back to their own nation.

2) They wouldn't want this made public. If some foreign nation has found a way into the UK's intelligence network, it most certainly would do everything possible to keep it secret so that the weakness isn't corrected and can be exploited in the future.

We can discount the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (some of the best intelligence agencies in the world) because they'd have access to the files anyway.

Given the subject of the files, I would say there are probably about a dozen or so foreign nations that would have the potential motive to steal them. But it doesn't feel like any foreign intel agencies were behind this.

Now, either we have some very inept foreign agents, or something else is happening. My guess is the latter.

BBC:Hazel Blears may have broken rules on handling restricted documents. More soon.

A laptop containing restricted information has been stolen from her office.

A personal computer holding sensitive documents relating to defence and extremism has been stolen from Hazel Blears' constituency office in Salford.

The theft may mean the communities secretary has broken rules on the handling of restricted government information, the BBC has learned.

Again, information about defence and terrorism has gone missing. The documents also damage the government even more because of potential disagreements..

They also contained information that shows Cabinet members disagree over the government's proposed planning laws.

She could lose her job over this, Jacquie Smith could be sacked from the Home office relating to the other top secret documents discussed in this thread.

Whatever has happened, two ministers careers are in pieces.

Source: BBC

[edit on 17-6-2008 by infinite]

WoW This is getting quite ridiculous. It's obvious this is a coordinated attack on the Government. The amount of damage this is doing to Labour is quite significant. Mr Brown must be pacing his office like a mad man. His mind must be racing like hell. There's not a thing he can do about it, just hope this is the last of the leaks. I highly doubt it though. Mr Brown will be having sleepless nights for a while.

"The thief broke in through a window, triggering the building's security alarm. A PC was stolen. Nothing else was taken.

The laptop was specifically targeted. The question is, was it a opportunist smack-head, or something more sinister?



[edit on 17uTuesday08/27/08 by paul76]

Gordon Brown has read the Riot Act apparently and demanded all ministers to watch over secret and restricted information.

Again, what is more worrying, the laptop was the only item stolen. So it seems the laptop was targetted.

Wow this is all so intriguing.

Have specifics in the documentation been revealed??

I agree with you it is either to bring down the government or communicate an important message.

Didn't this correspond with Bush's trip? It could be the person is trying to expose an upcoming attack on Iran and the UK's complicit officials.

Or another false flag event and the perpetrators.

reply to post by infinite


Jacqui Smith's dismissal is unlikely at the moment, since she herself didn't have anything to do with the lost files (much like the Chancellor, Alastair Darling, had nothing to do with the lost child benefit data) and the Home Office hasn't been dragged into the quagmire just yet.

Hazel Blears, however, is another story... she has clearly broken the rules and is personally responsible for this breach. Of course, the whole incident could still be just a random and unfortunate burglary - we can't discount that. It looks like something a little more serious than that, though.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


Read through the thread because I think you have misunderstood the potential reasoning we are constructing here. This has nothing to do with false flag terrorism.

Originally posted by Ste2652
Jacqui Smith's dismissal is unlikely at the moment

Well, the Home Select Committee think differently. Keith Vaz is demanding she explains to them how classified information on terrorism and national security was left on the train.

Every since Jacquie Smith upset the police over pay; many in Westminster have been looking for a reason to get rid off her.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by infinite]

Originally posted by paul76
I'm beginning to think these files/data are being left on purpose to undermine the government.

i couldnot agree with you more maybe someone on the in side is try to help out by leaking information to the public for people to wake up with proof.

reply to post by infinite


at risk of what ? knowing the truth that they should have know all along at how when you put people in a position to be servants to the masses that think they can what ever they feel at whatever cost .

reply to post by crawgator406


If you've paid attention to the thread, you would know the information has put many individuals at risk: including me and you. So how the hell is this some sort of maverick helping the public? Its not.

An individual or a group has successful undermined the government and the United Kingdom.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by Leo Strauss

 

Read through the thread because I think you have misunderstood the potential reasoning we are constructing here. This has nothing to do with false flag terrorism.

I did read it through...I have not seen any evidence yet to assume anything about what this may mean. Do you have any evidence??

Have the documents been released to the public??

Are you saying it is impossible that there may be a "maverick" patriot fighting for your country on the inside. Why do you dismiss it out of hand without any supporting reason??

By the way I did mention in my post that it could be strictly for political reasons.

However from what has been written here someone is willing to risk it all to get this info to the public.

PS...I remember the Downing St memo...

[edit on 17-6-2008 by Leo Strauss]

reply to post by Leo Strauss


Because I know what was in the documents through a source and I know what effects are. I still cannot understand how people think this is a maverick when the whole UK anti-terror strategy ended up on public transport. One is struggling to comprehend how these documents apparently mean we are going to war or the London Underground is going to be blown up by Jacquie Smith as well.

Am I not paranoid enough?

These files are not "let's bomb Iran" or "plant bomb on a train" sometimes I think certain members fantasy about terrorism in order to shout and scream "false flag" louder than Alex Jones sorry if those comments are harsh, but please apply reality and common sense before thinking big brother is out to get you.

If you think leaking an anti-terrorism strategy is a heroic act then I think you need to check your morality levels.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
PS...I remember the Downing St memo...

Yes, and I remember reading it as well. Clearly you never read the memo because it was completely different to what has happened now.

Originally posted by infinite
Well, the Home Select Committee think differently. Keith Vaz is demanding she explains to them how classified information on terrorism and national security was left on the train.

Every since Jacquie Smith upset the police over pay; many in Westminster have been looking for a reason to get rid off her.

This is indeed true, but there is significant evidence to suggest that the Home Secretary actually wanted to give the police their extra pay; it was Brown who stopped her from doing so. Hence, Brown won't sack her unless he absolutely has to (and we're not approaching that stage just yet) because the press and most of the police know it was Brown who forced the pay deal upon them and they'll drag the issue back up if Jacqui Smith is replaced. The Prime Minister set a precedent with Alastair Darling over the loss of the child benefit data last year, and given the difficult political situation that Gordon Brown faces at the moment, is he really in a position to find a new Home Secretary?

Unless the leaks taint her or involve her personally (as the Blears situation seem to have done) then I can't see Jacqui Smith leaving the Home Office over this.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by crawgator406

 

If you've paid attention to the thread, you would know the information has put many individuals at risk: including me and you. So how the hell is this some sort of maverick helping the public? Its not.

An individual or a group has successful undermined the government and the United Kingdom.

Let's not be so dramatic.

If this information was so important as all that, how on earth did the government of the United Kingdom allow someone to take it home with them in the first place? Where are the basic protocols of security, then?

I would say the government of the United Kingdom undermined the government of the United Kingdom.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by Leo Strauss

 

Because I know what was in the documents through a source and I know what effects are. I still cannot understand how people think this is a maverick when the whole UK anti-terror strategy ended up on public transport...

If you think leaking an anti-terrorism strategy is a heroic act then I think you need to check your morality levels.

Look I am not trying to annoy you although it appears I am doing a great job of it.

You say "I know" what is in the documents. So we need to take your word for it?? No evidence. Has the info been released by the press?

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
PS...I remember the Downing St memo...

Yes, and I remember reading it as well. Clearly you never read the memo because it was completely different to what has happened now.

My point was not the content but the fact that other documents have been revealed by the "mistake" of an insider within your government. Get it?