More secret files found on train

Originally posted by infinite
A third leak, which may happen, could send the government into chaos.

What ever you think of the government, this information should never be made public. People lives are at risk now.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by infinite]

From what, paper cuts or the bogey man?

Several months ago after all the data outbreaks i said that this was being done on purpose. Come on guys this can't be an accident, two set of files, both left on trains in only a week?

Either the intelligence services are trying to take down Gordon Brown becuase they think he's a bad prime minister. Or one of the intelligence servies is annoyed at the other and trying to get them in trouble.

Whatever is happening it has the unmistakable smell of deep politics.

reply to post by infinite


I`m sorry but you have not made your case using facts or reason.
You know people around Westminster so that means what exactly?.
All you seem to do is offer dead end statements and sly insults.
I have not mentioned Alex Jones or conspiracies.

No, cause its not happening and I do not spend my time believing every conspiracy theory that ends up on the internet.

Me neither but,

PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A VOTE WHEN WE JOIN THE EU?
PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A SAY REGARDING ID CARDS?
PLEASE TELL ME THEY DID NOT QUOTE WMD TO INVADE IRAQ?
I could go on and on..........SEE THE BIG PICTURE!!!!!

Look,

Einstein

"If only 2% of those assigned to perform military service should announce their refusal to fight, governments would be powerless; they would not dare to send such a large number of people to jail."

"More praise of peace is easy but ineffective. What is needed is active participation in the fight against war and everything that leads to it."

"The pioneers of a warless world are the young men who refuse military service."

No sympathy there aye.

Your theory falls to bits. How can it be a government conspiracy when the government itself is at risk? Dan Tanna has confirmed it too. The security service itself is damaged. Why are you being blind?

Firstly, should I know who Dan Tanna is?.....tell me its not some TV private eye.
I`m sorry its you not making sense.
Take America for instance....there has been a number of resignations at the very top of there military, calls for impeachment of Bush and many more things besides.........Internal government scuffles....they happen here too.
What is so hard to understand?
Please don`t tell me its white blond Muslims or Chinese special agents or a crack team of Iranians blah blah blah.

This is not information about bringing in a police state, which you seem to think, this is about how the government protects you and me. Nothing suspicious.

OMG.
I reckon you will regret that.
All I can say is its you and me they send to war wile they stay home and get rich.
If all politicians were made to put on the uniform and go fight there would be far less wars.
Its not about you and me you silly sod, its about them...its about protecting themselves and there advantage over the rest of us.

By Franklin H. Littell
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I can think of a barrow load of words I can substitute for communist, Jews etc to make it more relevant to our times....can you?

It seems you have narrowed your vision.
Its clear to me you are in denial.

If I`m wrong about there desire to protect me, I promise to find you, apologize and give you credit for your faith and wisdom.......will you I wonder?
Time will tell I guess.

Anyway, I can see this will lead nowhere.
I`ve enjoyed your thread.....Thanks.

reply to post by Dillons


You REALLY think I am going to name my sources on a open forum?
Pay attention to thread and you would notice Dan Tann is a ATS member

Again, you are putting generic conspiracies to a subject that has nothing to do with it Christ, I am not in denial because if this secret cabal existed I would be the first to be taken away and shot for knowing too much

I've even attended conferences that deal and recommend government policy, including ID cards, it was a public event. All your doom and gloom ideas are talked about in public by government ministers. You can even attend the events if you want. Its free.

Am I apart of the conspiracy then? I've given advice and opinion on certain topics.

Feel free to think "they're coming for you" but I shall enjoy my life in the real world with rational thinking

My guess is, the official newspapers have not posted everything revealed with the documents.

My guess, its to undermine government, the investors of wars, money trader, world ruler, etc.

In fact it is said that most of the bad stuff happen in the todays world has its roots in england. "The think fabric"

The confidential files were said to include details of how trade and banking systems could be manipulated to finance illicit weapons of mass destruction in Iran.

Now the question is who gonna use this matieral.
I guess they would not hand it over to terrorists, would they ?

unless the full documents are made public its complete nonsense to debate it.

it could be everything..

shame on the person who handed the documents to official media. Why dont post it here...

This makes me wonder just who the "oil speculators" really are. The accused "they" may not be among us at all.

To me, this smells like some kind of whistle-blower set up. Something akin to the photos from Abu-Ghraib that were staged by whistle-blowers to expose the much worse things that were going on at the prison. There could be someone trying to expose something nefarious going on at this meeting of "financial crime experts".

Is there any reasons for the media not putting our little theory forward to the public? I watched the report on the BBC news. They're just following the script.
If we can put two and two together, then surely our media can. It just goes to show, you can't really rely on our media for the balanced truth.

Originally posted by paul76
Is there any reasons for the media not putting our little theory forward to the public? I watched the report on the BBC news. They're just following the script.
If we can put two and two together, then surely our media can. It just goes to show, you can't really rely on our media for the balanced truth.

Of course they won't.

Last thing the population wants to hear is the government cannot look after its own citizens. This is all across foreign media.

Infiltration all the way ... only explanation for all of these so-called files going missing / laptops being allegedly stolen

They always say what happens in the movies is fictional ... no its not ... if you want to know how the world operates go to your local multiplex cinema!

Confidential is not secret. The menu at the cafeteria is confidential.
Secret is reserved for important things, like the work schedule, and who brings in the doughnuts next, and troop movements. Then you go to top secret for even more important things like which planes are carrying live nukes.

Think about it.... if it was someone who was wanting foreign governments to have their hands on it, why "leave it" on a train? They wouldn't.

No, SOMETHING in those files needs to be seen by the general public. Too bad they haven't been posted on the internet. Internet denizens, taken as a whole, are very good at putting 2 and 2 together.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Think about it.... if it was someone who was wanting foreign governments to have their hands on it, why "leave it" on a train? They wouldn't.

Not twice, anyway!

As I intimated earlier in this thread, this was done, in this way to Insure that the information contained in those documents Would See The Light of Day out in the public view!

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
No, SOMETHING in those files needs to be seen by the general public.

Exactly my point.


One thing we need to ask ourselves:

-Assuming that these incidences Were Not the result of a Major Goofball repeatedly "forgetting" the documents he he/she had in his/her posession; can we assume that the perpetrator would have been able to anticipate the handling of these documents once they were found?

In other words, anticipating how these documents would likely be disclosed to the public once they were discovered, do we now have sufficient information regarding the nature/contents of the documents to ascertain their likely import, and the intended message?


Is the information so far disclosed considered a sufficient "Word to the Wise", or was the perpetrator hoping that the full contents would be disclosed inorder to relay the warning?

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Not twice, anyway!

As I intimated earlier in this thread, this was done, in this way to Insure that the information contained in those documents Would See The Light of Day out in the public view!

I am afraid i have to disagree, i think this was a ploy to either undermine the government, showing them to be unable to control our information or it was to get another intelligence service in trouble. MI6 and MI5 have massive rivalry and for all we know something big has happened behind the scenes that has them at each others throats.

If someone wanted this in the public forum then they could easily have posted it online, it's not hard to be anonymous. Scan it in, or photograph it, drive around London and find a wireless access point that isn't secured. If your average IT person can do it i'm sure a spy or civil servant could.

Originally posted by bodrul


looks like more important files left on a train,
not very supprising considering the goverment are rubbish at keeping files and documents safe.




news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yeh your right Gordon Brown personally affected the behaviour of an individual to make them leave the documents on a train! DUH!

This has always gone on. What we do have though is a culture of "no blame". The persons involved will no doubt be excused their behaviour due to "not being trained effectively".

yet another example of the 25% of the human population who screw things up for the rest of us and are allowed to get away with it.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I am afraid i have to disagree, i think this was a ploy to either undermine the government, showing them to be unable to control our information or it was to get another intelligence service in trouble. MI6 and MI5 have massive rivalry and for all we know something big has happened behind the scenes that has them at each others throats.

If someone wanted this in the public forum then they could easily have posted it online, it's not hard to be anonymous. Scan it in, or photograph it, drive around London and find a wireless access point that isn't secured. If your average IT person can do it i'm sure a spy or civil servant could.

Totally agreed.

I remember a case a few years back when an MI6 agent created a website and uploaded the names of MI6/MI5 agents. It is easy to make secret information public.

This case is just about damaging someone. Some have called for the Home Secretary, Jacquie Smith, to resign over this. The Home select committee have demanded she explains what has happened, Jacquie could walk over this.

i just wonder when there will be another 'accidental' loss of info from the goverment......

Originally posted by infinite
I remember a case a few years back when an MI6 agent created a website and uploaded the names of MI6/MI5 agents. It is easy to make secret information public.

Are you thinking of David Shayler by any chance? Doesn't he think he's the Messiah or something? I recall him saying that on Channel 4 news.

Still, one wonders why MI5 and MI6 want to fight each other... surely they have plenty of external enemies to be going on with?

Originally posted by infinite

This case is just about damaging someone. Some have called for the Home Secretary, Jacquie Smith, to resign over this. The Home select committee have demanded she explains what has happened, Jacquie could walk over this.

Yep agreed fully. We'll see what happens in regards to resignations over the next month, i think it might take another leak to get the job done but we'll see. Also we should remember that it may be someone high up in the intelligence service that we don't know of who is being forced out. That's the problem with us arguing why it was "accidentily" left on the train, we aren't aware of the inner workings of the intelligence community at this point in time. We don't know of any major disagreements or sore points.

However i do not buy that this is some keen civil servant trying to make something public to the country because as stated earlier, if it were they could release it online, anonymously with great ease. Once its out in the wilderness of the internet it's out and done.

As for the idea it was Israeli Mossad or the Iranians, i think people here have watched one to many episodes of spooks. Whilst intelligence communities have historically been at war (granted my knowledge is limited to books by ex spies here), if such agents wanted to cause trouble then again they would have released it online. That would have been very damaging and they would have been completely clean diplomatically/

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Agreed again.

If it was Iranians, then the information would of been sent to Tehran, not left on a train. And, as the picture I posted showed, some of the information is beyond the security levels of a civil servant i.e restricted to senior figures.

Another leak would result in heads starting to roll.