Need some advice about property

I know I will sound too extreme, but I am planning to do something similar and here is what I am considering to do.

I am planning to go underground. This would provide a shelter in a case of radiation. I'll build it not directly under the house but locate it slightly away from the main residence. I'll create a tunnel from house to the underground facility and build a tunnel in a way it can be collapsed and filled up with dirt. The underground entrance will have another emergency hidden exit some 50m away from the underground residence.

reply to post by ag2000

While I think it is a great idea to have land away from the cities not just so you can bug out but also so you and your family can enjoy nice picnics and being able to look at the stars. Rural areas have just as many problems as surburban areas. If you fall on the wrong side of local authorities you may end up in the same postition as the FDls polygamist colony. In small towns the judges and the lawyers are all friends and people in small towns have been known to give newcomers the cold shoulder.Also many people who live in the country are forced to move to the city for economic and educational opportunities. If you are not independently wealthy living in the country permanently could lead to impoverishment. Good luck to you but I will pray the poop does not hit the fan.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft

Most criminality will be focused on buildings visible from a paved road. It is very rare indeed to have people try to squat and grow things on your land--that sounds too much like work. No, they'll be looking for unprotected buildings to raid. Dogs will take care of 90% of that.

I agree. We haven't made any final plans on the home locations and they will each be on their own 10 acre lot...But within each lot I am sure we will cluster any outbuildings we might have.

I will take a look around for the thread you referenced. Thanks alot.

reply to post by Blobsquatch

Also, 48ft used shipping containers can be purchased for about 1,500 and placed in the ground pretty cheaply.

Thats a great idea! Thanks.

reply to post by eradown


Thanks for the reply. The land is only about 25 minutes from where I live now and about 30 minutes from where I presently work. I have lived in this area for 19 years so its not a completely new type of area for us. I am actually pretty good friends with one of the local judges.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by FIFIGI
I know I will sound too extreme, but I am planning to do something similar and here is what I am considering to do.

I am planning to go underground. This would provide a shelter in a case of radiation.

What about a basement under the house, that connects to a shelter under the driveway. It's cheaper to build, and the cement thick enough to support a vehicle is also thick enough to x out radiation.

I think there's a fema fallout shelter blueprints kit that suggests that.

I know that a lot of conspiracy theorists will balk at ANYTHING suggested by the FEMA. But honestly, there's a lot of good ideas, and there are workers at that institution who really want to help the American people. Remember, it was mainstream media who laughed when FEMA told the public to get two weeks of food together, and enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to cover windows and vents---which really would protect against anthrax and dirty bombs. FEMA has also suggested people under forty having two weeks of potassium iodide tablets, in case of iodine or potassium based dirty bombs. Now maybe those ideas are stupid, but it doesn't invalidate everything else they said.

After all, they funded the plans for the Non-electric Fallout Meter.

Anyway, back on point.

FEMA has lots of old blueprints available for free. And most police have never seen or been briefed on those designs. Something not liable to change any time soon. In situation X, the authorities will be desperately trying to maintain the banking system--the last people they will want to harrass is farmers, whose land underwrites so much federal finance.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
...
The usual policy is for the county appraiser to inspect initial building plans, but nothing further unless you tell them....

In my county they reinspect every so many years. Sounds good but don't count on the tax man not being aware. The state pushes counties to keep raising appraisals for the tax revenue.

reply to post by roadgravel


really? wow. What state (or region) do you live in?

I know appraisers use google earth, and generally ask about amortization, and just base things on that. The last time we had property privately appraised, the guy was done in 15 minutes. Sure he measured the dimensions, which would show a hidden room, but not undergound building and so forth.

I bet a printed "Danger Biohazard: Pesticides" sign would keep most appraisers out of a shack next to the barn. But who knows. I'm sure it varies by time and place. Thanks for pointing it out, though.

.

Congrats on the land. You have slightly over one section, nominally 1 mile square. Therefore each strand of fencing would be over 4 miles times 8 or nine strands for an effective electrified security perimeter. Plus you would need a very expensive and sturdy post for a multiple stranded wire at about a 50' interval.

My point is you get into big $$$ pretty quickly. You might want to look at surveillance rather than fencing.

Good luck...

That's a lot of land...I would look into a few UAVs-either fixed wing or helo type with fly by camera capability and infra-red/night vision for night flight.

Not only will it save you a trip in the middle of the night to investigate suspicious activities or noises-they're a lot of fun...

Put some 360 view cameras on top of those windmills too...

reply to post by ag2000


my suggestion would be to build you house underground there is a home not far from where i live and it is great. its a great insulation and who would think to look down in sertain situations. you don't have to worry about the heat or cold then you create the best cover by planting on top it just look like a small hill or mound. all really good camoflauge. you can't get what you can't see. great thread.

I agree with the above poster: surveillance will be more economically feasible. However, around your ten acres, or at least around your house, I'd go as hardcore as possible. A tall fence with razor wire is good, barbed wire is OK. I'd also advocate dogs around your living area. Make sure you have a sturdy door to the cellar, steel shutters, just in case the human animals come calling. Best of luck to you. Me, I'll be taking to a commune in Minnesota that my cousin currently lives in. They also have some land in Canadian wilderness picked out, just in case of EXTREME trouble....

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


I live in a rural county in S Texas. I am keeping an eye on all this as I wonder how much this is on the up and up. The area seems to be a network of ole' boys I do believe. After 20 to 30 years a person is still an outsider it seems. It is mostly about whose family one is in.

Is seems the gov thinks it is a business.

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the replies. I will be away from the computer until monday. I do not have a computer at home...So if I do not get back to you I will whenever I come back to work on Monday....

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PREVIOUS QUOTE:
For two, that amount of land is unnecessary especially if the world ever
ends up bad because you cannot stop desperate people from going
through your land.
----

Actually, that above statement is quite untrue....
You ability to stop trespassers or desperate people when the SHTF
is highly dependent upon your RUTHLESSNESS and ability to
look away from pain, death & suffering.

When it comes to PROTECTING YOU and YOUR PROPERTY when
a SHTF event happens, I am NOT condoning or in any way advocating
the use of the means outlined below...but I am merely outlining the
undeniable historical record that humans are a savage species and
have used any and all means to so-called "protect" their ways of life.

For example. the American Military (in Vietnam) found a VERY EFFECTIVE
means to prevent incursions by enemy forces into protected areas...FIRE!
Specifically NAPALM from flame throwers which burns HOT ENOUGH to COOK
people that are in even shielded vehicles or to totally crisp them when
in the open.

When the SHTF, you may have to decide what parts of your humanity
to keep or discard...and then act accordingly...and be prepared to
accept the personal and legal consequences if and when some semblance
of normalacy ever returns.

On a practical level, it's not that hard to buy multiple SEALED 200 litre drums
of alcohol or gasoline that can be long-term stored and then mixed on-the-fly
with a flammable liquid or powdered emulsifier such as styrofoam
micro-beads and then run those binary materials into a high-pressure pump
(of solvent resistant construction) that can then be jetted out at high
pressure through a nozzle that contains an ignition source.
At 50 to 250 yards depending upon pressure and stream length,
flame thowers are a terrifying weapon of war against the invading hordes!

It also tells the other hordes that you're not playing around
and that they had BETTER LEAVE !!!!

Another age-old method is to dig 4 to 8 feet deep fire ditch encircling
a large area containing flammable materials such as brush, gasoline
or piles of wood kindling that was historically used as a temporary
measure to re-direct hordes away from critical areas of a compound.
Once the invading hordes saw a WALL OF FIRE encircling a compound,
the combination of smoke and crowd discord tended to make the desperate
hordes flee to other more amenable areas.

Of course, if those hordes lay seige and try to wait it out,
you'll need to resort to more brutal methods of crowd dispersal
and that is where flame throwers and a few tens of thousands of
rounds of .308 ammo will work wonders.

I am being a bit flippant here, but protection against hordes
of desperate invaders is a function of YOUR WILLINGNESS to
do what is NECESSARY to EFFECTIVELY REMOVE trespassers
for LONG PERIODS of time whenever a catastrophic SHTF event happens.

The discussion here is more a matter of individual psychology
rather than practical abilities since even 10 very motivated people
with long, sharply pointed sticks can be a very effective deterrent
against the "Invading Hordes".

It is with the more able and more-equipped invaders that many of you
will find problematic in a SHTF scenario and YOU, on an individual basis,
will be required to DECIDE and then ACT UPON how far you are willing
to go to protect your property and or family.

It's a complicated juxtaposition between being ETHICALLY HUMAN and
reverting to savagry upon stressful circumstances.
Hopefully it won't have to come to that, but at the very least,
ATS is an OPEN forum that allows such discussions to take place and
thus MAKES YOU THINK of what MIGHT need to happen when the SHTF!

Any Comments on the Morality of being Brutal in a SHTF scenario?

Lots of good ideas here. Congrats, BTW, on the land purchase. You have the MOST important variable -- water. Protect those springs.

It occurs to me that aggressive fencing says to a maurading band: "there are valuables in here." I would think about fencing your core area, your fallback position, and fencing with a material you can hide behind if under attack....... My Dad and I once made a very stout fence from old railroad ties -- creosote soaked and tougher than nails. Drilled and spiked, there isn't much that could bust through it. You could also go the hay and adobe way or as another poster suggested concrete. Whatever is stout and affordable for you and the group. I don't think you'll be able to fence the whole thing effectively. As you say, if TSHTF, you'll be doing mounted patrols, hopefully with some manner of communications to alert the core group. Army/navy surplus stores used to sell perimter alarms. These are tough devices, and used to be pretty cheap to acquire. Maybe they're not available anymore, and they don't carry for a long distance, but that's a possibility too.

I'd think about several fallback barriers in between the border of your property and the core, to shelter behind in the event you were under attack. There could be a cache of ammo, water and food there. A small group that is fortified has good odds of holding off a larger one, if all weaponry is equal in that situation. You can literally wait them out - no reason to advance an attack, let them come to you, if they're so foolish or desperate to try and take your assets rather than trading for them.

Good luck folks. I hope you don't need it, but it's better to have it.

Cheers

[edit on 12-6-2008 by argentus, and again for spelling and other strangeness]

[edit on 12-6-2008 by argentus and yet again for spellin']

[edit on 12-6-2008 by argentus]

First off I would like to say congratulations to fulfilling a long dream of mine, as well as others, of owning your own land and being able to do your own thing. Would it be too much if my friends and I could join you and your friends in your development of your colony and take up some responsibilities to help contribute to its growth and survival?

I would have to say this though, when SHTF there is nothing we can really do. The only thing is strength in numbers. The more people you have on your land with the "right to bare arms" amendment in action, you all will pose a threat to the "all seeing eye" and will make them not attack you.

I would strongly recommend doing some research for WACO Texas on what really happened. Here is a movie that freedom loving Alex Jones did:

video.google.com...

Good job with the electric wind mill. I would suggest also adding a whole bed of solar panels as well. I would recommend water filters too. I would suggest doing some research on HHO, which converts water into Hydrogen (combustible gas) using basic parts that can be purchased in any auto parts store. I have documentation on how to construct this HHO technology so if you are interested please let me know.

This is a big project but the religious people of Waco were right on this one, they constructed an underground bunker. This is not that bad of an idea. Though it should not just be a small living quarter... I am talking bunkers and tunnels systems on a grand scale that is comparable to the Vietnamese system that was constructed with the help of the North Koreans during the Vietnamese war. This allows for stealth, defense, mobility, and escape.





[edit on 12-6-2008 by unite_life]

[edit on 12-6-2008 by unite_life]

Certainly you do not want to forget about your method of getting around the property quickly. You'll probably want some ATVs since they're good on rough terrain and they are easier to deal with upkeep than a pickup truck or other SUV.

Also, maybe there might be some oil reserves under the property, you could try and put together a small oil well to get a continuous supply, also it adds something to trade in case of sitx. The water springs and everything could act as a nice little area for generating supplies.

Be sure to also get one of those older large satellite dishes and the included equipment. That would mean if everything local goes to the pits, you can still most likely get word from outside nations, etc.

And don't forget the good old armory in case if you have to go toe-to-toe with whoever.

reply to post by ag2000


As my avatar suggests, I have a hundred acres of remote real estate in Oregon with similar goals to yours including retirement place, seclusion, wildlife refuge, gardening, alternative energy.

After a major theft and breakin it became obvious that better security was in order. We began with beefing up the main gates. Nice heavy steel gates that could be chain locked on heavy posts, big locks, heavy high tensil steel chains, etc. It was also necessary to put up heavy fencing around the gates to avoid skirting the gates.

Then we put up security cameras. It isn't necessary to have functional cameras as they have fake cameras that look like real ones that even have blinking lights.

An internet linked security camera system is something we've been looking at. Costco has a good one for a little over $1000 that has 4 cameras that can be mounted at the end of cables that look in different directions going to a central unit. You just go on line and see live what is happening at your place. At night they have night vision.

Next we installed a call in alarm system in all the buildings. The second a door is breached or a window is broken a call goes in to a central monitor and someone gets a call. Good neighbors are great for this. Put up lots of warning signs advertizing your system. Again, the signs are worth as much as the system. Put signs at all gates, and doors.

Then make sure all your fences, gates, baracades are in good repair as wildlife are constantly knocking stuff down. Oh yes and make sure your locks look substantial, ie. good strong dead bolts, etc. Nothing shabby. Make the whole place look like you mean business and the rif raf will go do someone else.

Its just basic security 101. A good security firm can give you a ton of advise.

Be sure you have someplace underground to hide. I've always wondered why civilization goes up, but not down. A deep place underground is almost impossible to find, make sure you have two escape routes: main one to the top, and one emergency route that leads to an bramble of bushes or woodsy area, for instance.

Make sure there are no tall trees or buildings near your escape hatch. If your bunker is too well reinforced and there's a couple tons of blown-down tree or concrete on top of your hatch, you're in trouble! perhaps an 'screw' operated hatch is a good idea? I don't know. I'm not an expert!

Adequate ventilation is important too- perhaps have an metal tube that leads to an bushy area, where open holes in the ground are hard to see. Cover is important, especially if you are coming and going.

What else? I don't know. But If you want to hide from the world, going underground is the best option. Forget houses and homesteads. Waaaay too vulnerable.