Need some advice about property

I suppose you fear looters. The best thing would be have cameras to alert you to them. They will go through any barrier. I went through a blackberry bush barrier in central Texas last week. ouch

reply to post by ag2000


The GCDs are setup to follow the state water code. Basically taxing land owners for water. Without a GCD it is right of capture. The idea is to preserve local water. There are restrictions that they can put into place. Not sure whether they are good or bad. There are many people who think they are entitled to all the water they can get.

Guess you are northwest or west of the Austin area.

Texas aquifer map

One a person spends time away from urban areas it is hard to go back.

reply to post by earthman4


We might go the camera route at some point. Probably not in the near future. They would definately be beneficial though. Thanks for the suggestion!

reply to post by roadgravel



I will certainly be looking into that. I don't think we fall into GCD but I am not sure. Thanks for the heads up...Would probably be a good idea to find out.

electrified fence is probably the best answer for whole area perimeter. that combined with alarmsystem connected to fence should be good enough to warn you. if the shtf most people probably don't expect people to have fences alarmed (or any electricity at all). Allso hidden cctv-cameras with motiondetection alerts at main entryways are good. majority of people are not any survival or hiding specialist, so they will stay on roads and other clear paths.

in the near procimity of actual housing i would prefer high tile or decorative bar fence. don't look as assaulting as wirefence and are much more durable. allso one way to hide high fence is to build a tree fence just in front of it. it doesn't hide it from close inspection, but makes it look more like a landscaping object than heavy defence. in any case dont use modern high chain link fence, those things scream miles away that you are protecting something and dont actually bring much defence, because you can easily cut throught it.

built couple bunkers, one at the housing and other hidden somewhere in the wildernes. housing bunker is the main one, the remote one is for the situation that you need to abandon housingarea.

[edit on 11/6/08 by hopea]

reply to post by hopea



I like the motion camera idea. Will probably put a couple of those up. I also like the bunker idea. I have thought about that and can't come to any decision. definately want one away from the homes. Bad thing is its pretty rocky unless I put it in the pastures but that doesn't seem like a good idea. Thats something I will need to look into further. How big of one would you need? Seems like they would need to be quite large to be comfortable in one for a week or two...If it came to that.

I am hesitant to do to much blockading barriers etc... around the homes right now. I want to leave it as natural as possible. Probably not the smartest idea when it comes to surviving a sitx. Hopefully it won't ever come to that but you never know. I may just change my mind once I get out there.

Thanks for your input.

As a person who lives in a wild & wet climate that would make most people
scream in defeat, I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU DO NOT USE WOODEN POSTS!

if you have any ability or access to free (or nearly free) sand or
volcanic ash, you could purchase bulk quantities of material to mix
your own concrete by either using standard Portland Cement and
mixing with Volcanic Ash, Sand & crushed rock or you might even
be able to create a CHEAPER (although less strong) version of your
own Portland Cement) for concrete mixing...

See:
www.enigmatist.com...

And See:
www.howtopedia.org...

With your own concrete mixes, you can then make concrete
fence posts and fence cross-beams which are strong enough against
even large animals such as bears and bulls. (and vehicles too!)

To make the fence posts last much LONGER you can create your own
kiln / heat treating oven using common materials....

See:

groups.google.com...

so that you can GLAZE the concrete posts and beams so that they
become much more weatherproof and last up to 50 to 75 years!

Concrete is WAY BETTER than wood, just remember to use wire mesh
and rebar to reinforce the columns and beams (rebar & mesh can be
bought in fairly cheaply when in bulk)

You could ALSO use concrete for your WEATHER & PEST proof
housing in above-ground and below ground applications and you can
make False-Finishes on concrete so that it looks like tile, brick, or block
just using some fairly simply finishing techniques and colouring.

See:

www.concretenetwork.com...

and see:

www.all-things-concrete.com...

To make the forms for a round concrete fence post
take a 7 foot long piece of Metal 6 inch or 10 inch diameter pipe.
Weld a rounded end-cap on ONLY ONE end of the pipe and then
cut the whole pipe length-wise in half and then weld
a 4 inch wide, 1/4" thick long strip of steel along the edges
of each of the cut halves of the pipe so that you essentially
make a fence post mold that can be clamped together
easily using simple wood or metalworking clamps.

For creating fence-beam grooves or wire-fence tiedowns, glue
small plastic plugs or blocks to each interior half of the mold in
a linear fashion so as to form a cut-out within the cement post.
i.e. the plastic plugs or blocks will not be filled with cement as
you pour concrete into the post mold.

And using plastic plugs rather than wood or metal would allows you
to use a propane torch to burn out the plastic plug or block from the dry
fence post once it has been removed from the mold and it allows you do
make different size cutouts as your fence beam needs are determined
or changed.

As a suggestion so that the final set concrete doesn't stick to the sides
of the mold, coat the interior of the mold using a grease or
lard-like material so that when you pry the mold halves apart
after setting, it will be a much easier job.

Slide a pre-made wire mesh or rebar reinforcing into the
mold interior and pour your concrete into the vertically stood mold.
You'll need to aerate the concrete so that voids are
eliminated using a concrete vibration stick (can be rented).
just ensure that you don't over-aerate to avoid any larger
aggregates settling to the botton of the mold.

Let the concrete set for 2 days and then pull the mold apart
using the steel pry handles which you REMEMBERED to weld
to the mold sides and let the concrete post air dry for about 10 days.
Lightly misting the concrete with water every 5 to 12 hours will
actually make the concrete stronger over time.

After 10 days of air drying the concrete post can be sealed using
concrete sealer, glazed or painted and inserted into the ground.
with 10 pre-made molds you could easily cover your acreage
within a few weeks.

Instead of fencing, you might try some type of natural barriers to discourage trespassers and save the fencing for a smaller and more easily defended area.
A few ditches dug around the edges and concealed with light brush to trip the unwanted intruders or their vehicles. Throw in some blackberry bushes, and you have thorns to make it painful for them to gain access and you have something to can for later.
I guess the goal, IMO, is to make it difficult for them to sneak up on you and anything that might slow them down would be a help.

If you plan on hiding out, you'll have to give up the windcharger and switch to solar cells and hydropower. Hydro should be just as cheap as windcharger as long as the creek has a fairly constant flow. Nothing screams look at me, I'm over here in the country like a windcharger. Not to mention your local meth heads will try to steal the copper wiring from it. You should try to hide your house from being viewed from the road. Are you on a county road or state road. A county road should be fairly easy to block especially if you and the 4 other families are the only on the road. I wouldn't worry too much about the fence unless your livestock starts disappearing. I would put all 4 homesteads within a small area and build a stockade around it. It could be a simply as 5" mound of dirt with gated entry/exit points. A house without a fence even in the country is an easy target for marauders. You should have a well and rainwater collection system with a least a 10k gallon cistern inside the stockade. You'll have to start thinking like the Western pioneers if you feel that there's going to be trouble with looters . Good hound and cattle dogs are also a must. Keep them outside. Get prepared to deal with wild boar as well if you plan on growing any grain crops. They're rampant in most of rural Texas.

Get a couple of Mules.


Bring them in to your farm when young so they bond with the kids and the property. They will attack mountain lions, people, wolves, just about anything they see as a threat to their domain. They are like having 900 Pound german shepard attack dogs.

ag200:
Since this little unknown section of ATS has a pretty mellow user base, I'm sure that you are likely to get plenty of info here, so feel free to stick around awhile 'eh. Oh, great score on the land, man, that really sounds like quite the find.. almost too good to be true for my neck of the woods really, but that is sweet!
Oh, (and) oh... BTW, welcome aboard!

Alright, now the first thing I am gonna ask is this:
Are you planning on living/residing there primarily or is this acreage just used seasonally?
The only reason I ask this is because I am curious if there are any pre-existing shelters or structures in place on the property. I would assume that there are some outbuildings that are useable since the amount of wells on the property, but that is only an assumption by me. If you don't have any existing structures there, the very first thing I would do if I were you is to look into that aspect. Whether it be a simple camp trailer parked somewhere, to a log cabin... shelter is primary since water and possible food sources are somewhat covered from what you said.

Now if you are planning on setting this place up to be a permanent self sufficient place to live, with your ideas and what you have at your disposal you are well on your way.
I myself wouldn't worry about the fencing too much for the time being, but that is just me... if you don't have anything to hide, then you shouldn't fret the small things... although that electric fence is a good idea if you are going to have the backup solar. You said it was pretty overgrown and wooded right? I say work with that.. it's already there and it's free, you can always add or take away later.

What about the other families that you are subdividing this property with? 10 acres each is pretty substantial, so you should in theory be fairly spread out... so use the terrain to your advantage there. As long as they all are on the same page, the "neighborly early warning system" is as good as it gets. There is that old saying though... keep your friends close... wait, no nevermind.. wrong one, it's wednesday night and I need a drink.
Anyway, just make sure that you are all comfortable with that style of living and if the fan does get hit, make sure you're all ready to deal with it in all climates and situations, that is the best advice I can offer on that. Sorry to pick this apart and play D.A. (devil's advocate) here but it's a great start, seriously... better than most.

You are going a great length just by getting "off grid" and back to the roots, and for that, I salute you. Please do keep us all updated, and when I have something more useful to say, I will drop back in.


Cheers,
~end telemetry~






(re-formatted)

[edit on 12-6-2008 by telemetry]

reply to post by ag2000


If the proverbial SHTF than living anywhere within 3oo miles of Mexico
is not a good idea. Borders become irrelevant and Banditos will stream
across the Texan border Mad Max style. You guys could fight it out down there.
I'd rather be closer to Canada.

Hi Ag2000,

The fence, electrified or not will not be much of a barrier if people can just dig under it. You'll need to go down a couple of feet with some kind of fence or buried concrete wall - although the latter would be expensive. Of course the underground fence couldn't be electrified.

Good luck with the project! Let's hope you never need the defences!

[edit on 12/6/08 by Insomniac]

reply to post by Electricneo




You obviously have been listening to those morons on the mainstream media because if anything like TSHTF any 'bandito' on this side of the Rio Bravo del Norte will likely catch a bullet if they try any of the crap they pull in Mexico. Folks in Texas have lots of guns and know how to use them. We've got the highest percentage of military veterans/retirees of any of the lower 48 states. The folks on this side of the border who've been troubled by the few criminal element types who are here are the usual criminal victims, single women, the elderly and of course their fellow Mexicanos. If there's a bandito raid ala Pancho Villa, the border works both ways, the Mexicanos have a knickname for Texans who've they managed to harass , Los Diablos Tejanos or the Texan Devils. During the Mexican Revolution of 1914, Texans had a bad habit of ignoring the border when dealing with banditos. Many of Tejanos or Tex-Mex folk who've lived on this side of the border since 1846 have little love for their cousins from the other side of the river. We actually may have a reverse situation where a Texan Army goes across the border and wipes out many of the drug gangs. Like I said before Texans have lots of guns.

I dont have a lot of experience in this area, but ill give my 2cents anyways. First off in my opinion focusing on a huge border fence of 650 acres to keep people out is a little hard to believe. I dont think having it is a bad idea, but to rely on that alone wouldn't be the best idea. I personally would focus on my own home first and work out, like a concrete reinforced basement, or bunker. From there expand with a perimeter alarm system with cctv, motion sensors, german Shepard ect lol. I think by having a safe and secure place to go in your home in bad times is the smartest thing you can do. You and 4 families can easily hold down an acre or two with small arms, but good luck with 650 acres. So overall i would recommend building a very strong and large basement with capacity to keep your family and others comfortable. Next if your really concerned get bullet proof windows, full cctv of the house and perimeter. I think your mass amount of land should be a big plus for you also.

Ya Got Alot Of Great Ideas From All Of Your Fellow ATS Members . I Think You Are Pretty Much On Track With Your Plans . Have You Considered Solar Chargeing Cells For You Fences And Out Buildings And The Such ? As Far As Rain Catching Rain Water , You Can Never Have Enough Of Them . What Type Of Building Material Are You Considering For Your House's And Storage Buildings ? Have You Ever Considered Straw Bale Home Construction ? It's Very Cost effective and the insulation factors are unbelievable . If You Have Firearms , Which I no doubt you do , You Might Consider grabbing Up As Much As You Can As Well As Spare Parts For You Weapons Of Choice . Plus Get Reloading Equipment And All The powders , primers , Bullets , and Various case's For You Calibers Of Your Chose Weapons And Practice , Practice Practice . Keep Radio Equipment On Hand Just In case You Need To Reach Out To Your Friends And other Family and to stay informend as to the situations That May be happening everywhere . If You Go To The Web Site - Simple Survival .com They Have Alot Of Great Info And Web Sites That May Help You Out With Ever You May Need . And I Would Strongly Suggest Getting An HEIRLOOM SEED cATalong At Their Website Because You Dont Want Any Geneticaly Modified Seed Stock That Is Designed To Have Sterile Seeds That Wont Be Of Use To You After You Harvest Your Crops To Keep Your Seed Stock For Future Planting . Planning Is The Key Brother. And We Are All Wishing You The Best For You And Your Extended Family . Hope This Helps You In Some Small Way !

Honestly in my opinion I would keep the barb wired fence. If this location is semi-square, then I would build out several different grassing fields useing Electrical wire. In this way, you lower the size of the perimeter fencing. and therefore reduce cost. Keep in mind though that Electric fencing is to keep the cattle in, not to keep people out. Best thing you could do is buy a brand with your name, address, and tele on it, and brand your cattle. You mention that there is 4 families that control that 650 acres with each having 10 acres. How many people is this total. Do you plan to coral your cattle at night? Have you space out the 10 acres so that you can provide an effective protective barrier?

My thought would be to put the 10 acres on each corner of the lot. Fence it of with electrified mesh fencing. at the one location with the wind generator, you could put privacy fencing, razor wire, and might I suggest running 2 consequtive rounds of fence spaced 6 feet apart. Put a 3-4 dogs in there to run in play. When you get that many, pack concepts start to override what you have taught them, and if they see one getting hurt, they tend to attack, vs wimper and run. I would also suggest you look into Proxim's P2MP infrastrucure. You could create wireless bridges between the 4 locations, additionally I would add a 5th location as a connecting point for a camera setup.

Outdoor cameras are prettt cheap you can buy a low light infared for about $60. You would have to spend around $800 for a server, and the wireless bridge would be the most, as ruffly 8-10k to install. This being said, you could implement voice conferencing on it, run an IP security system with 24 cameras, and use it in its current component to have highspeed internet ran to one location and feed it to all 4 houses.

Other sides notes, don't forget to post the private property signs. You'll want to secure your water wells. I suggest building a concrete enclosure around them, with a 3/4 inch steel plate. put a coupe padlocks on that bad boy and it will keep anyone entertained for hours. As a final thought, if you put your windmill near the center of your property, then you could keep it off the beaten path. Nothing says go away better then putting a few signs up saying an area has been mined. Fence it offer. Put mines on it "1 inch metal tubes 1ft in diameter tied in a cross" bury those bad boys in the ground, that way if or in the even some walks though with a metal detect, they will be flipping out by the shear number of mines that you have. It causes 2 things to happen, either A, they go away. or B, They go away and come back with some serious crap. Either way it buys time, which is essential for organizing a proper defense.

Have you decided on bunkers yet? Best types of bunkers are the once that serve duel purpose. Buy some mesh wire, make them into a box, fill it with stone, take a 3 of these put them in a row, put a piece of plyboard on each, and you just made a couple of seats and a picnic table. You could also put plywood on the bottom of them, and put wheels on the plywood, makes it easy for moving to a better position.
'
The ultimate thing to keep in mind is people. How many do you have? Is it sufficient to hold and protect all of the property? You would need in my opinion at least 1-200 to do so. That ncludes protecting the 4 main houses. Mounting a tower in the center, protecting your cattle, and protecting your wind mill.

cheers,

Camain

I wish you well with you endeacor...Wish I had the same opportunity.

Why put a fence up in the first place? I understand the idea behind it...BUT if you ARE planning for the STHTF then I would go for something not so obvious. Survey your land and see from what direction attacks could come from. Find the safest(hardest place to get to) place you can then plan atleast 2 escape routes.

People have already mentioned it but use nature to funnel people to where you want them to be. Plant bushes...surely there are already thorn bushes on the property...start xplanting them and use them to your advantage. The europeans did it with hedge bushes...some of them were so strong and dense that tanks couldn't get through them. Explosives had to be used to blow them up first. Now, I doubt you have the time to do that (some of the hedge rows were hundreds of years old) but berry bushes grow quite fast and wild game likes them too. It doesnt matter what you build if I wanted in I would find a way to do it....if it looked interesting enough A high tensil electric fence says that there may be something good behind it. Dont draw attention to it would be my 1st line of defense...then a way to funnel any invaders to where you want them to go...keep them in the open.

I have been away from the computer for the night. I will try and get back to everyone that has replied at some point today while I am at work. Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone! I knew I would learn a lot by coming here...Thanks again.

reply to post by BadgerJoe



BadgerJoe,

I like the natural barrier idea. I am leaning towards the electric fence for the perimeter. We do have quite a bit of wild blackberries and such that are down by the creek. I am thinking it might be a good idea to use the electric fence with some type of thorny berry bush together. Make it a little more difficult to get through. That might discourage at least some people.