Man killed after grabbing officer\

If three cop's cannot take one man down with all their weapons then they deserve to get their asses kicked, and good.Today most cops are cowards and have never been in a real fight in their lives. Most cops today have never really scrapped and torn it up on the street with no holds barred and winner take all. So, they resort to using improper force more often than not.

In the old days cop's didn't mind a real scrap now and then as it gave them their jollies finally winning and it proved to themselves that they were tough and able...a confidence booster. But now they don't need confidence and a hard pair of fists and some cohone's....now all they need are more weapons!! Tazers and mace and guns and batons and dogs and other cops....and still they are shooting people for merely being more of a badass then they are...pathetic.

No self respecting cop would murder a guy simply because the fight was not immediately won...shame on any cop that has so little guts that they grab a weapon before a perp does. If it is hands only jump in there and get dirty and win...and then brag about it...NOT when you have shot an unarmed man to death who has no weapons.

So the cop's got shocked a little during the fight,,,so what? THEY brought the tazers into play, now didn't they? If they had just fought the guy they either would have won or they would have learned a lesson about thinking they are so tough. Take one of these real tough guys..like those massive thugs that fight in the arena's for money..those are real tough guys..no necks, massive chests, arms like beams...I can understand tazering someone like that who is more than a normal man can handle but a regular guy who is just wanting to fight cop's should not be murdered because the cops are scared..and thats what it boiled down to...the cop's were SCARED they would lose a fight..

In days to come we will read more and more about citizens being offed by the cop's because they didn't fall down and obey all orders in an instant and the cop's will keep on gaining more and more weapons and will lose more and more guts...and pretty soon anyone that looks the arong way at a summy cop will be taken down...sick nation we live in...sick.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I agree with you completly. This officer looks like someone with good intentions up until the part when he begins to take out his taser prior to any "real" conflict. It is officers like this that make the majority of communities, states, and the nation for that matter FEAR the police.

I understand the fact that the kid did not obey orders and even the fact that he began to walk away from the officer. Now I ask is he justified to tase him? In my opinion had the kid refused to obey the officer and begin to walk away prior to the taser begin removed from his holster, then yes it was justified because the officer can reasonably think that the kid may have been retreating to grab a weapon from the vecihle. But the mere fact that the officer took out the taser before any instruction were given and ignored gives me the impression that the office wanted to teach the kid a lesson so to speak. The lesson being to obey what ever an officer of the law tells you because you are pretty much a nobody compared to them.(officers).

This is something that is all to common with todays law enforcement officals and quite frankly in is unacceptable. If law enforcement officals want to have a better relationship with the public then they themselves need better training on how to deal with people. I mean I don't expect perfection, but I do expect for the public to be treated fairly and for officers to use their brains rather than their tasers\guns\batons\mase when possible.

Cops are total puss' these days. Way too eagar to shoot.

Cops are total puss' these days. Way too eagar to shoot. What happened to the good ol' billy club, at least you get a beat down instead of getting murdered.

[edit on 11-6-2008 by Nikon]

All police officers who violate their oath or out constitution should be punished immediately. No exceptions, no whining, no "ratemycop" just the most efficient/just punishment possible. . Make it into law please, and you'll get my vote.

This will serve as an example to all the crooked cops that we now have.

The power we give these people is ridiculous and when they abuse it, they should face a punishment that assures that they will never abuse anyone again.

Got a problem with the new policy, just don't enlist in the police "forces"

There will be plenty of positions for good honest cops, once such a policy is instituted.

I am sick of treating victims of police abuse, I remove on average, 3 sets of taser prongs every months... for the past four goddamn years. Not to mention the cases of hemorrhaging I encounter when "the force" brings in one of their victims to be treated before 'processing"

I would like to note that police officers are placing a major strain on the health care system be abusing so many of their charges. I am obligated to treat their victims upon arrival, giving them priority over patients already waiting.... It breaks my heart.

It breaks my heart when I am called to testify in Police abuse case that I was involved in, and I do it more and more often as of late. It has gotten to the point where I give my interns permission to stop working and act as a witness whenever the "force' brings in another lump of battered and broken human life. I have face harassment for this. Police harassment. Criminal Police Harassment

I have heard this thrice:

"We have concluded that the officer(s) reacted accordingly to the perceived threat posed by the deceased. Furthermore, although Mr Doe has been found to be a person other than that identified by the arrest warrant/not been charged with any crime and we feel that it would be unjust to punish our Dedicated Law enforcement Officials for following standard operating procedure in response to the perceived threat posed by Mr. Doe."

I have heard this "excuse" to cover up three D.O.A at my hospital.
It is a common one and extremely frightening as there is no oversight, and documentation is always minimal/biased in these internally-conducted investigations.

The point is that Justice is absent in the majority of these incidents... not cases, incidents. It is as though "Law Enforcers" are held to a much lower Standard of justice than the plebeians who are subjects to their varied interpretations of the law.

That said...

I have confirmed and documented the time of death in two of these cases ( or should I say 'incidents?') and witnessed confirmation on the other. Both cases were innocent victims of "The Force." No officers were punished in any of the incidents. Investigations were internally done as per usual.

The Police State has arrived.

Uh... don't attack cops?

Sorry for the one liner. Can't think of anything else that needs said.

reply to post by titorite



"" I said it before and I say again, this story smells ""


I gotta agree .



But I still don't see any justification for tasering someone WHO IS NOT A THREAT to the officer....because

all these stories CAN'T be bogus....and I'm sure you've read about at least a cpl of them, if not lots more.

It seems to me that, the only reason these guys taser mostly unarmed civilians......is because they can.

And THAT excuse, just ain't good enough for me. And it shouldn't be good enough for anyone.

I don't know if I posted it in this thread or not, but in case anyone is interested, here is the story of how I got tased. The second thread is the update...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by eyewitness86


Eyewitness I see you are cop bashing again, once again and this will be my very last post here...you have no idea

and for all those that are saying cops are pusses and they deserve to get their assess kicked and we are in a police state. You better pay attention police right now maybe the very reason were not in a police state and dude who was fighting with the police he had that same attitude apparently.

Dont break the law and dont fight with police that is really the bottom line here. You blame the police for taking the action that this idiot caused himself, try blaming criminals, because if it werent for them police would be out of a job.

Later cop hater, I hope they are not there for you when you need them. I mean it!

reply to post by birchtree

You blame the police for taking the action that this idiot caused himself, try blaming criminals, because if it werent for them police would be out of a job.

The system is self-serving. There will always be criminals because the system will continue to make ever-more stringent laws. Did you know that looking at someone the wrong way can be interpreted as a terroristic threat, and therefore grounds for arrest? So, unless you are catatonic, being human makes you a possible criminal.

reply to post by jackinthebox


OK what you need to do is show me the federal terroristic threat laws and the elements of the crime section; by the way I have it right here and again the self serving part here is being made by you. It shows that there does in fact need to be a threat and that the culpable mental state needs to be proven as purposely; which means that it was that persons concious object or desire to inflict apprehension upon the person which is being threatened. First of all what you are saying would never hold up in a court of law and I know you are just trying to bait me, it is ok I love to debate, but at least address something that holds water instead of just coming out with junk that isnt the case. ITS JUST NOT THE CASE AT ALL.

this is from a legal sight off the internet but there are many take a look

commonly used definition of a terrorist or criminal threat has five elements:

Someone willfully threatens to commit a crime that will result in death or great bodily harm. This means that the threat obviously has to be of a highly dangerous nature. Threatening to slash someones tires, for instance, would probably not be sufficient. However, the threat can be made in any medium, written, orally, or electronically transmitted.

The threat was made with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat. Although this certainly seems like a redundant sentence, it is meant to convey that the threat is a crime even if there is no actual intent to carry it out. The only intent you need is the intent to make the threat itself. So if you threaten to blow up a school, you will still be guilty of this crime even if you are completely unarmed and have no means of accomplishing this at all.

The threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and immediate prospect of execution. This extremely complicated sounding sentence is very important to the law,


[edit on 14-6-2008 by birchtree]

reply to post by birchtree

OK what you need to do is show me the federal terroristic threat laws and the elements of the crime section

First of all, I never said anything about "Federal."

And the point is, that if an officer decides, on his own and arbitrarily, that you may constitute a threat, there is nothing that you can do about it. It can be something you said, a body gesture, even a look in some states. From that point on it is your word against the "expert" testimony of the officer.

I have seen resisting arrest charges stick, simply because someone stated a few words of protest during an erroenous arrest. No physical resistance mind you, just a phrase was enough for a new charge on top of the trumped up charge. If a cop wants to arrest you, there is nothing to stop them.

Here's a good one. In NYState we have vehicle inspection stickers on the windshield, in the lower driver-side corner. Now, the owner/operator does not place the sticker, it is done by the shop. Yet if it is so much as a centimeter "out of place" you can be stopped and/or ticketed. Same goes for if your glass is "too dirty." The officer can claim that it was obstructed from view. If the glue comes loose, you can be found to have "tampered" with an official document. Now this is all over a stupid inspection sticker. Now imagine taking things to the next level.

I've made a few arrests in my time, and never really worried about the exact charge until I was filing the paperwork.



[edit on 6/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


The expert testimony of a police officer huh. You obviously looked at my article but did not bother to read it, in order for it to hold up in court it an action must fit the elements of a crime....period....it does not matter what the officer says...a look will not constitute jack

By the wya I have been to court plenty, an officers word is not gold in court, it is always scrutinized.

So jack you are just talking out your box.. sorry I couldnt help that LOL

But seriously though it def is not as simple as you would make it seem.

reply to post by birchtree


Have you read the threads that I posted above about my incident incident with police last year?

I got beat up, kicked in the head, and tased ten times for telling the police that I was not afraid of them when they started threatening me after I had begun to volunteer information to them. I had a stack of charges on me, for not being afraid.

Despite witnesses for my side, the case was a loser and I still had to plead guilty under a plea-bargain or face a serious jail sentence.

And this is but one personal example. I could give plenty more from the "other side." I've never had a suspect walk when I testified. In fact, most of the time they take the plea deal because they know that their word is # against that of an officer or professional.

So jack you are just talking out your box.. sorry I couldnt help that LOL

[edit on 6/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


Well maybe New York and Ca. but that is not everywhere. Besides 12 1/2 years of operational experience I am also employed as a senior officer in my state, so I am not buying what you are saying.

By the way I have also been handcuffed in Ca. pulled off a bench on to my head and have them release me after they said I was intoxicated and blew below the legal limit.....and I am a cop...so I know it happens but I do not see it as a majority

yeah ive heard about that ny parking authority../

[edit on 14-6-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by birchtree]

reply to post by birchtree

yeah ive heard about that ny parking authority.

Besides 12 1/2 years of operational experience I am also employed as a senior officer in my state, so I am not buying what you are saying.

Aw come on man. You should know better then. Are you telling me you never took a collar and had to ask the Sergeant or the LT what you were actually gonna charge the perp with?

You know as well as I do that there are more than enough laws out there to justify snapping the cuffs on, and more than likely you will get a prosecution out of it. Of course, there are those cases where you know the perp really did do something bad and won't get enough time for it, but that's because the system is already so jammed up with people that don't even really belong mixed up in it in the first place.

Take speeding tickets for example. Revenue generator. That's all it is. Doesn't have anything to do with "safety" for the most part. You can go as fast as you want on the Autobahn in Germany and that is statistically one of the safest roads in the world.

Traffic tickets are revenue generators, and an excuse to get into people's business. And again, we're only talking about the simple stuff here.

The whole problem with the system is we have too damn many laws, that give any excuse to stick nose into people's business. That's why this is a police-state. If it were really about justice, we would have a set of basic, clear, unambiguous laws, that were strictly enforced with no exception.

You know as well as I do that law-enforcement is heavy on the arbitrary. You can let a cute girl be on her way, or give some tough a real long night. Someone starts running their mouth, you can start writing up more tickets. You know as well as I do how thick the traffic code book alone is.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Let me address the first thing I read here before I go any further, I have never never never hooked someonde up and then came up with a charge, not once ever, I do not play those rules, now I have hooked someone up and let them go, but I have never had to come up with the charge to keep someone, I either had the charge or they walked....NO never once in my life..never and I would sit down to a stress test on that.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Traffic tickets are revenue generators, that is not a secret, but there are laws that are put out there and a lot of times it is a safety issue, by the way the fatality rate of accident on the autbon is a lot greater then accidents here, although I will agree it is considered safe by all accounts

There are a lot of things like that but I will tell you that would not work here, we would have so many deaths on highway and such it would be phenominal and that is just due to the fact that its here. We are not the same as other places

There are laws for a reason and for the most part they are to protect but my position is to serve and that my friend is what I do, do i get annoyed with people...yes....do I say things I sometimes shouldnt,,, prob but this job is about people.......that slap happy stuff is becoming a thing of the past and I am sure erradicating it from cities may be long and far but you see what is happening in Chicago, what you are talking about is a thing that is going away, and it better because I do not play that....zero tolerance for deception and crimes against the people.

Originally posted by birchtree
that slap happy stuff is becoming a thing of the past and I am sure erradicating it from cities may be long and far but you see what is happening in Chicago,

What are you referring to when you speak of what is happening in Chicago ? It seems as though you may be saying that harrassment and abuse by CPD is on the decline, or that maybe they are actually trying to stop it.