Man killed after grabbing officer\

Man killed after grabbing officer\

www.kpho.com

The man pulled the Taser probes from his body and began fighting with two officers in the front yard, Derge said.

One of the officers fired his Taser but the man continued fighting and was able to grab the weapon from the officer, Derge said.
The man then fired the Taser at other officers, investigators said. A third officer arrived who saw the man still had the Taser and was fighting with the other two officers.
The third officer shot and killed the man, Derge said.
The officers were not seriously injured but received minor scrapes in the fight.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The man was asking for something and was resisting arrest. But still 3 on on 1 and the guy ends up dead? Is that justified? It's not like he reached for the officers gun.

www.kpho.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by thegdfather


i dont know if its justified, the courts will figure that one out

but don't be so fast to pass off judgement on the officers

we were not there, and didnt have a clue what was going on.

There are corrupt police, i agree. But to insinuate that every officer who has to use his or her gun is corrupt, isnt right. (not that you are insinuating that of course)

I say we let the facts pour out before letting a media source tell us how ti "really" went down. I believe the rodney king trials should be a lesson for us to learn on how to take what the media shovel feeds us.

Im not judging them at all. All I am saying 3 against 1 is never a fair fight, it just seems like death is a little too harsh of a penalty for this guy for what he was doing. Stealing metal flower holders? He sounds like he was probably under the influence making him even that more difficult to deal with so it is hard see what was the best option available. ESPECIALLY since we weren't there.

On the face of it this is totally justified, the man was armed with those metal flower stands, then took the officers weapon - he was given his chances, the tazer was the final non lethal resort, doubt mace would of been used as the cops were already in very close and would of dosed them selves as much as the crook.

Can't of been that long ago that the Tazer would not of even been present - I know I'd rather get zapped first and asked questions than shot and asked questions if I pulled through!

i agree with what you're saying

but i also take the appraoch that i dont think the officer INTENDED to kill the man.

The fact is: if the man hadnt done, the things he did to get shot, then the police would never have had a reason to pull their guns.

But thats just me. I dont blindly side with police, but im always 99.99% skeptical of criminal intent.

Its unfortuate, yes, and i never wish death on anyone

Anytime you fire a weapon you should KNOW that there is a high chance of death as the result. Read the article it says two officers were struggling with the suspect when the third arrived and shot the man. It didn't say he tried to separate the three, it says he drew his weapon and fired.

Umm aren't the Tazers Police use single shot? How the crap was the guy shocking them with it after he'd already been shot with it?

This isn't exactly a stun gun that he can keep jabbing with or aim and take down multiple targets...

It's a probe on a wire, It's pretty limited,

I don't know maybe I'm off here but something seems iffy with this story, Is there a Dashcam of this?

Heck even if there is another probe that can be fired from it, One was already used on him, The second one assuming it hit one of the Officers only takes one of them out of the game, So this guys either flailing around wires like a crazy person or one Officer is being shocked, So basically this dudes pretty distracted in either case, What exactly kept the other Officers from tackling him?

I'm just confused here.

I'm certainly not taking sides in this one, The guy was an idiot regardless, I'm just trying to add thing's up here...

I'm also wondering since cops can shoot people for using a Taser on them Can we shoot them for using one on us? or likewise anyone who uses one on us?

I mean if it's dangerous to them it's certainly dangerous to those of us they protect yes?

Seeing as they shot and killed this guy for shocking them does this mean the Police are basically unintentionally admitting the Taser is a deadly weapon? that when used warrants a response of deadly force?


Lastly on the other side, A reason this could be justified is that the responding Officer considered that this man while shocking these Officers, could have managed to gain their sidearms which could then be turned on them...


Without seeing a tape and having a full understanding of how this all went down this is all really for both sides a big gray area, I doubt the Officers will have any problems from this either way, It's a hindsight issue.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by C0le]

3 cops and a bozo stealing garden stuff

were the cops afraid of being hit with the garden stuff ? wtf ?

they HAD, to stun him?

they couldn't just surround him?

did these guys have an appointment at dunkin donuts or somethin'?

wtf was the hurry? AND

what are they pumping up these cops with, that THEY HAVE TO TASER FOLKS over stupid infractions?



I wasn't there, but all this tasering seems OVER THE TOP in my book...

probably a closer look at the pre-work brief in the squad room may answer some questions

Originally posted by C0le
Umm aren't the Tazers Police use single shot? How the crap was the guy shocking them with it after he'd already been shot with it?

This isn't exactly a stun gun that he can keep jabbing with or aim and take down multiple targets...

It's a probe on a wire, It's pretty limited,

The footage I've seen of these things usually shows the user taking a cartridge type thing from one point on the tazer and attaching it on the business end - I suppose depending on the model it could have more than one cartridge, ofcourse that would mean that the crook had the wherewithal to know that and re-load, but maybe he was just pistol whiping with it.

reply to post by toasted



Good points, If they had never brought the Taser into it, The scenarios explained in my post may not have been an issue.


[edit on 8-6-2008 by C0le]

and like i said
there may be more to the story than the MEDIA leads you on to believe

of course, this is just a guess

there are stupid cops, just liek stupid citizens

what do you do with a stupid cop? Make them another stupid citizen...


what do you do with a stupid citizen?

It's kinda hard to take one side over the other if i wasn't there, and there is no video, but it really doesn't make sense to me. The man didn't have a gun, so if he wasn't using deadly force why did the police ? Seems like maybe they were too quick to use the tazers in the first place. I don't understand why they used them, simply because he didn't listen ? I thought they were only supposed to use them if absolutely necessary.


I think that maybe the police have become so comfortable with using them that they have forgotten how to deal with people. Oh the guys not listening let's just shock the crap out of him. Seems to me that the police would've been able to subdue the man 10-15 years ago without using a tazer' why can't they do it now ? If you ask me they've just become to damn comfortable using those things at the first sign of resistance.

I have a good idea! Don't fight with police. Do what they tell you (they do have guns you know and are paid to stop ass-clowns like this) and for gods sake don't take any of there toys away!
Well anyway one less ass-clown to spoil the gene pool.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by RUFFREADY]

Originally posted by thegdfather
The man pulled the Taser probes from his body and began fighting with two officers in the front yard, Derge said.

Um, call me stupid, but why on Earth would anyone try fighting with two officers???

Originally posted by thegdfather
One of the officers fired his Taser but the man continued fighting and was able to grab the weapon from the officer, Derge said.

Um, I must be an idiot, but why on Earth would anyone grab a weapon from an officer???

Originally posted by thegdfather
The man then fired the Taser at other officers, investigators said.

Um, damn, I must be a complete moron, but why would a man fire a taser at police officers??????

Originally posted by thegdfather
A third officer arrived who saw the man still had the Taser and was fighting with the other two officers.

Crap, I must be retarded, I can't figure out why a man would be fighting with two officers with a Taser????

.......don't answer the questions. They are just so damn obvious. I am actually completely angry anyone could even post the crap in this thread.

Just another fearful lemming.

You should actually be glad they tried using the Taser first, before the gun.

[edit on 8-6-2008 by ALLis0NE]

i love it how most ATS members blame the officers without even knowing the facts! i have two friends that serve as police officers and they are nice guys and respectful as most people in the south (or i wouldn't be friends with them).
sure there are bad cops out there but statiscally (sp) speaking they can't ALL be bad.

How about we give them the benefit of the doubt until we get more info, oh but wait,... the info will come from the msm so we can't rely on it hmmm a dilemma.

I guess i will just side on the police side this time and say the loser had it coming. attacking cops and resisting arrest means he was probably on some kind of drugs.

ANYTIME YOU ATTACK THE POLICE YOU MUST KNOW, IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND WHAT THE ULTIMATE FINALE COULD POSSIBLY BE.

Interesting.

Phoenix appears to be one of the regimes that believes tasers are not capable of causing death and suitable for deployment when a suspect fails to obey verbal commands.

So what were these cops in fear of as to prompt them to use their firearm? They apparently don't believe tasers can kill.

Funny. With the high voltage probably came the delicious scent of bacon. Now I'm hungry.

Totally justified, and should be nominated for Darwin Awards. Did this man honestly think attacking officers and grabbing their weapons would end well for him?

In police acadmey, officers are trained to shoot and kill anyone that attempts to grab their gun, as it only means one thing: The person grabbing it is going to use it to kill them.

If you were an officer you would have done the same thing. Some real sickos out there kill cops just because they are cops and nothing more. During a robbery of a hair salon in LA, two officers were off duty in plainclothes getting their hair cut. The robbers told everyone to get on the ground, and the robbers then went though everyones wallets/purses. When they went through the officers wallet and purse, they found their police ID's. When the robbers saw the ID's, the robbers executed both officers with a bullet to the back of their heads while they were laying face down. It was determined the robbers only executed them because they were police officers. No one else in the salon was harmed. The two officers were married or engaged IIRC, a female officer and a male officer.

You have to realize police are a BIG target and lots of people want to kill them and would do it if they know they couldn't get caught or at least thought so. If you think you can waltz up to an officer and attack them, resist arrest, grab their guns, and not expect them to want to stay alive, you are sadly mistaken.

I find it ironic you have a lot of anti-police types that cite the 2nd amendment every 10 seconds and say they would shoot anyone breaking into their home, but at the same time these same people fail to forget that officers are citizens of the USA too and also have 2nd amendment rights to protect themselves and shoot and kill if they are being attacked.



[edit on 8-6-2008 by AgentScmidt]

reply to post by apc


Voltage does not kill, amperage does.

Of course, not all people are 100% healthy so you do get an occasional death when their muscles and nerves are contracted in ways their ill body could not handle.

Put yourself in the police officers shoes... They get up, get ready for work, drive to work, clock in, then go on patrol. Another day in the field. Now, they come across some crazy guy. They don't really care what he did or didn't do, because they are not judges. They just want to detain him, run him through the system so he can meet a judge, and move on to the next problem. Obviously they want to do this as fast and pain free as possible. So when someone resists, they are making their job harder. When someone fights back, they are making their job needlessly more dangerous.

If you were hired to dig a hole in the ground, would you use a spoon, or a shovel?

Originally posted by apc
Interesting.

Phoenix appears to be one of the regimes that believes tasers are not capable of causing death and suitable for deployment when a suspect fails to obey verbal commands.

So what were these cops in fear of as to prompt them to use their firearm? They apparently don't believe tasers can kill.

Funny. With the high voltage probably came the delicious scent of bacon. Now I'm hungry.

Are you an anti-taser type?

Do you realize as part of training in police academy, all officers have to take a tazer ride? If it's such a bad thing they wouldn't have THEIR OWN riding the lightning.

Can it kill? Yes it can but you can also get bit by a spider and die. It can happen, but the chances are slim.

And honestly what would you choose, a bullet to center mass or a little zap of electricity?



[edit on 8-6-2008 by AgentScmidt]