McCain Trusted More Than Obama on Economy, Iraq, National Security

Originally posted by LostNemesis
mybigunit, do describe what it means to be Conservative.

RockPuck, I thought voting was a Freedom. A Right. Why make it so difficult for an average person to get a vote in for who they want? Especially if no Conspiracy is involved, whatsoever? I understand what you are saying... But I don't think it is right.

Sure Ill be glad to my friend. First off there is the base conservative or conserve which is hold traditions or lack of change. Thats where the notion of traditionalists come into play. General policies of a "conservative" are legislative morality, small government, fiscal responsible budgets, conservative foreign policies like no nation building/policing the world. They prefer to lay low and let things ride.

Well thats what a conservative USED to mean. The new definition on how the people we label as "conservatives" act is as follows,

Big government, Big spending, Big Debt, police the world and nation building, and very liberal when it comes to traditional constitutional liberties for the new conservatives or the "neo cons" which neo=new have completely thrown out the window. McCain or Bush or anyone that ran the conservative ticket is not a conservative they are neocons or new conservatives. Im sorry but I like the idea of being a libertarian better. Vote Ron Paul.

reply to post by Rockpuck

SO I guess you could say that I trust McCains people more then Obama's People.

Well, I guess this would be a more accurate assessment.

Tell me though, how would you defend this gas tax that McCain is pushing? Where are his people on this one?

reply to post by mybigunit


Conservatism has been high-jacked by the Christian community.

They turned it from being a legal idea, to a belief system.

If your Christian your a conservative!! .. you don't support state rights, you don't like drugs, you don't like abortion, you don't like stem cell research!!!

Well all I gotta say is wtf does that honestly have to do politics? Morality has no place in government, it has no place at the federal level anyways. People in Maine have NO RIGHT to tell Oregon how to live. Get my drift all you 2 party'ers out there?

A real conservative will not put moral issues into the debate when discussing politics. The federal government is a legal system, it should be defined by legality not moral dilemma.

So just add all that to what you said Big and ah, think it should be complete.

Originally posted by bigbert81
That's it. Proof positive that voters are some uneducated, dumbed down folks who don't do enough research at all. Or, they're letting their intolerance for another candidate blind them.

Your comment is just another example of why Obama and his followers are perceived as elitist snobs.

This might surprise you and BO, but intelligent and educated people don't like Obama and don't trust Obama for a number of valid reasons.

The whole "if you don't vote for Obama you must be a stupid, red-neck, uneducated racist" is getting really old.

I have a close friend who is a liberal as a person can get, and she absolutely will never vote for Obama and will vote for McCain instead. Why? Because she TRUSTS that McCain will be better for our country than Obama!

Wake up. He's not the change we are looking for. Maybe this is why people don't trust BO with the future of America:

reply to post by bigbert81


Explain what his tax is? .. I don't follow politics during primaries, it makes me want to start a revolution and commit the worst of all war crimes.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mybigunit

 

A real conservative will not put moral issues into the debate when discussing politics. The federal government is a legal system, it should be defined by legality not moral dilemma.

So just add all that to what you said Big and ah, think it should be complete.

Correct but this is my point. When people think they are voting conservative they really are not. They are voting Neo Conservative and there is a difference. The most conservative on the republican ballot did not even get to see the light of the camera and that is Ron Paul. The McCains of the world are posers and thats why he will not get my vote because as vor said earlier "we are not going to fall for that again" and neither will I. If you want to vote for a neo con who wants legislative morality, world police, Ill push my way of living on you, big government, big spending, big corporatism then go ahead and vote McCain hes your man but what HE IS NOT is a conservative. This is my point.


Oh and an edit. Id vote Obama over McCain anyday. Even Obama is more conservative than McCain. He believes in individual rights and not policing the world or nation building. He even believes in balanced budgets which is why he wants to raise taxes to not add so much on to our national debt. BUT he is for big government and big spending and that is why I cant vote for him. Ill stick with Paul.



[edit on 30-5-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by jamie83


So Obama want's to de-militarize America? Clinton did it, I would imagine he could. Obama would probably end up being a lame duck from the start.

reply to post by jamie83


Agreed and I think that its a tactic that is going to backfire on Obama and his supporters this fall if they continue it.

Another tactic that's going to bite them in the rear-end will be this constant barrage on McCain's age. Most old people vote and if they keep trying to turn it into an issue, they may alienate a rather significant part of the voting population.

reply to post by mybigunit


I don't vote. It's my way of protesting my disdain for Democracy.
But you know my feelings on Democracy so I will hold back my typical rant!

[edit on 5/30/2008 by Rockpuck]

Found an interesting article on McCain's economy "prowess"!

McCain Economic Policy Shaped By Lobbyist

Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain’s national campaign general co-chair was being paid by a Swiss bank to lobby Congress about the U.S. mortgage crisis at the same time he was advising McCain about his economic policy, federal records show. [See sidebar.]

“Countdown with Keith Olbermann” reported Tuesday night that lobbying disclosure forms, filed by the giant Swiss bank UBS, list McCain’s campaign co-chair, former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm, as a lobbyist dealing specifically with legislation regarding the mortgage crisis as recently as Dec. 31, 2007.

And, interestingly enough, McCain's "campaign co-chair, former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm", is also the one that, while he was a Senator, pushed to ease the regulations on energy commodity trading, which has turned into this high gas prices fiasco we are dealing with today!

After Gramm passed a law easing regulation of energy-commodity trading, California experienced a sharp run-up in energy costs. The energy-trading company Enron was blamed and soon collapsed.

And just how did Gramm help with the mortgage crisis?

Some economists fault Gramm’s deregulatory successes, as well as lax enforcement of remaining oversight powers, not just for the subprime mortgage crisis, but for its spread to other sectors of finance. Even Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has expressed interest in toughening regulations.

Sounds like Gramm is just the man we need to give McCain economic advice if he becomes president. [/sarcasm]

He pretty much already has McCains ear now, do you really think that would change if McCain becomes president? I believe with Gramm at McCain's side as president, the US economy will suffer worse than anybody could imagine!

[edit on 5/30/2008 by Keyhole]

So who specifically is shaping Obama's policies?

Are the people Obama is catering to any better than those that McCain might cater to? Or are they just different?

It strikes me that what this election boils down to is WHICH group of people will benefit disproportionately, not whether or not the U.S. will be better off as a whole.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by jamie83]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

So Obama want's to de-militarize America? Clinton did it, I would imagine he could. Obama would probably end up being a lame duck from the start.

No, Clinton might have cut back on some things, but BO SERIOUSLY proposed eliminating the entire U.S. nuclear deterrent. Plus he vowed to not put any weapons in space. Anti-missile satellite technology is the cutting edge of defense weaponry. How does it serve he U.S. to NOT defend itself from missile attacks?

Originally posted by bigbert81
Proof positive that voters are some uneducated, dumbed down folks who don't do enough research at all. Or, they're letting their intolerance for another candidate blind them.

Speaking from experience, aren't ya' berti?

The FACT is that both McCain and Obama stink at economics.
Obama is worse, but not by much.
His tax increases will kill the economy.
His destruction of space and military programs will cripple us.

BTW - You are quoting Huffington, NY Times and Think Progress????
Oh .. like they don't have an agenda!!

Find some non-left wing - moderate - economic folks and your
discussion would have more weight.

In the end - McCain isn't great with economics. But Obama's economics stink. Vote for Ron Paul and avoid having to vote for someone who stinks.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

In the end - McCain isn't great with economics. But Obama's economics stink. Vote for Ron Paul and avoid having to vote for someone who stinks.

Yeah I think that sums it up vote Ron Paul. Keep in mind when you vote for the lesser of 2 evils you are still voting for evil.

I do disagree though I think McCain would be more horrendous when it comes to the economy. Tax increases as much as they suck would strengthen the dollar but we wouldnt have to increase taxes if it wasnt for all the government spending. Thank the republicans.

reply to post by Rockpuck


No, explain where the heck McCain's economic advisers are on it since you trust them so much.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The FACT is that both McCain and Obama stink at economics.
Obama is worse, but not by much.
His tax increases will kill the economy.
His destruction of space and military programs will cripple us.

Oh really...

And the gas tax?... Which one was for and against it?

And the war?... How will that fare on the economy?

And if you wouldn't mind reading the sources and the quotes pulled, I think you'll see that they are quoting facts. Because something comes from the NY Times does not mean you can discount it entirely.

And what's with this space thing? Mind telling me your stances on this?

Originally posted by LostNemesis
Why in the world are Conservative voters not PISSED at this insult to their intelligence? (must be lack thereof if they are falling for it)

We are pissed, and any defense I proposed to support my intelligence level would be seen as an internet pissing contest, so I'll just say your little jab was uncalled for and out of line and leave it at that.

The problem is this, the Republican party is no longer controlled by real conservatives. The PTB within the party are liberals who sit slightly to the right of the current DNC, so they run as Republicans. They're basically fiscal and political leftists who hold social conservative viewpoints. Since the DNC has built it's entire platform on social liberalism, they have been forced to look outside their natural party and have hijacked the party I once considered myself part of. Rudy, McCain, Romney, (financially speaking) Huckabee... all liberal mindsets, all unsuited to represent the party in the manner Goldwater envisioned it. Reagan was the go between... the man who held the core beliefs while also attempting to bring in the Christian right to beef up the party and, unfortunately, that has opened the door for this current generation of GOP elite to throw away the core values of the party as long as they claim to embrace the moral high ground. Hell, even under those guidelines Rudy & McCain are fish out of water, actually.

Ron Paul, while I appreciate the man, has no chance of winning. Real conservatives look at Barack Obama and see a socialist who stands for every single thing we despise about the current democratic party. Personally, I don't believe our sovreignty or our history can withstand an Obama presidency. Things may be tough currently, but if the great appeaser and wealth redistributor gets elected, watch as the wheels fall off the bus and the engine explodes, leaving everyone on board mortally injured. What other options are there?

I'm no huge fan of John McCain, but when I compare him side by side with Obama, I see a lot of "mights" and "coulds" over his head vs alot of "wills" and "definitelies" over Obama. For example, my wallet might suffer under McCain, but my wallet will definitely suffer under Obama. I could honestly care less about international opinion, international well being, or international good will at this point. I'm in this thing for 4 people, my 2 kids, my wife, and myself and everyone else can go screw for all I care. I look at Obama and don't see anything even resembling my best interests or my country's best interests surrounding his potential presidency... what I do see is a socialist and globalist agenda in which I lose money from my pocket, only to watch it being given to all the have nots around the world. Throw in the fact that the man is a major enemy of gun owners, couldn't care less about the price of gas as long as the urbans have cheap public transit, and has major patriotism and loyalty questions as well as his close association with race mongers like his good reverend Wright, and it's fairly easy to see that we conservatives are pinned against a wall here and being forced to pick between the lesser of evils.

reply to post by jamie83

The whole "if you don't vote for Obama you must be a stupid, red-neck, uneducated racist" is getting really old.

Jamie, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that it's very odd and funny that despite McCain himself admitting he doesn't know economics, and the whole gas tax thing, that people still trust him more than Obama.

Huh, you really think this whole gas tax thing would've scored some points for Obama, but it didn't.

And like I've been saying, I wish Ron Paul could win. But he won't and it would be a wasted vote.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6



Ron Paul, while I appreciate the man, has no chance of winning. Real conservatives look at Barack Obama and see a socialist who stands for every single thing we despise about the current democratic party. Personally, I don't believe our sovreignty or our history can withstand an Obama presidency. Things may be tough currently, but if the great appeaser and wealth redistributor gets elected, watch as the wheels fall off the bus and the engine explodes, leaving everyone on board mortally injured. What other options are there?

Ron Paul would have a chance of winning if every person out there who said Id vote for him if he chance of winning actually voted for the guy. The thing about Obama is he would raise taxes there is no secret there. But let me ask you a question why does he have to raise taxes? Ill ask that of you first. Second who says there isnt wealth distribution going on now just the money going from the poor to the rich? Third question what does it mean to appease?

I'm no huge fan of John McCain, but when I compare him side by side with Obama, I see a lot of "mights" and "coulds" over his head vs alot of "wills" and "definitelies" over Obama. For example, my wallet might suffer under McCain, but my wallet will definitely suffer under Obama. I could honestly care less about international opinion, international well being, or international good will at this point. I'm in this thing for 4 people, my 2 kids, my wife, and myself and everyone else can go screw for all I care. I look at Obama and don't see anything even resembling my best interests or my country's best interests surrounding his potential presidency... what I do see is a socialist and globalist agenda in which I lose money from my pocket, only to watch it being given to all the have nots around the world. Throw in the fact that the man is a major enemy of gun owners, couldn't care less about the price of gas as long as the urbans have cheap public transit, and has major patriotism and loyalty questions as well as his close association with race mongers like his good reverend Wright, and it's fairly easy to see that we conservatives are pinned against a wall here and being forced to pick between the lesser of evils.

As far as the globalists and giving all our money to the nots around the world that is going on right now and McCain is a big part of this. What do you think will really change if he is elected? I hear you keep saying socialist globalist agendas but this agenda has been going on under the republicans. Ill ask you what I asked vor and dont steal my answer from my post but what does it mean to be conservative? Because when you answer it you find that Obama is actually much more conservative than McCain sad fact as it is but its true.

Vote Ron Paul!!!!

Originally posted by bigbert81I'm saying that it's very odd and funny that despite McCain himself admitting he doesn't know economics, and the whole gas tax thing, that people still trust him more than Obama.

Huh, you really think this whole gas tax thing would've scored some points for Obama, but it didn't.

And like I've been saying, I wish Ron Paul could win. But he won't and it would be a wasted vote.

Actually, the gas tax thing did score some points for Obama with me. The McCain/Clinton summer tax relief plan was about the most idiotic idea I've ever heard. The price is being set by demand. Removing the tax wouldn't lower the price -it would only put more profit in the pockets of the oil companies.

McCain is the only politician that's ever angered me enough to call his office.

Want to torpedo McCain? Find the sound bite from the Sean Hannity show where he said something like, "Mexicans don't take jobs Americans WON'T do, they take the jobs that Americans CAN'T do. Americans aren't tough enough to pick avacados all day in the hot sun."

That was pretty close to what McCain said.

The only reason I trust McCain more than Obama on the economy is because McCain *might* err on the side of Reagan-like conservatism, whereas Obanma is going to err on the side of intellectual, Marxist-like theories he's learned from his intelligentsia buds.

If Obama's theories don't worked, the U.S. economy and military is TOTALLY FUBAR. If McCain gets in, at least the Dems in Congress might keep him from totally screwing up EVERYTHING.

I'd take Ron Paul in a heartbeat.