Creationists Will Destroy ATS

The first page of this thread is a brilliant little microcosmic picture of what's going wrong with ATS and the world.

When Godwin's Law takes less than ten posts to come into effect, and the thread is still going five pages later, you know you did something right.

Astyanax... keep on, brother. I feel your pain.

Originally posted by ZiggyMojo
Are we not here to DENY IGNORANCE? If you do not approach a debate with an open mind and a willingness to hear the other side of the debate, you are inevitably denying yourself of knowledge and information to an extent. Thus you are REMAINING IGNORANT!

I have to disagree with you on this, and my reasoning is thus: Some of us here, myself included, HAVE heard and seen both sides of many arguments posed on this site. I was raised Catholic, attended an Evangelical youth group whose members and leadership were staunch Creationists, and I continually read and study science.

What exists here is not debate. Debate presumes there is no objective right or wrong. However, I do not think this to be the case, and I would hazard a guess that many here agree with me. In order to "debate" one must be able to remove one's self, experience, and observations from the equation, because they form the basis of our personal reality. When one is confronted with a challenge to that reality the natural reaction is to respond in kind.

ATS is NOT about debate, at least not from what I have seen.

It is about being a champion for one's reality and taking on all comers.

Most posting members I have read from are far too polarized for the kind of "reasoned debate" you propose. I myself am a part of it. I see myself as an advocate of what I see as reality, both the way it is and the way it could (and should) be.

My role is not to change the minds of members who disagree with me.

My role is to present my evidence in as strong, and entertaining, a manner possible in order to convice the casual visitor with no definitive opinion that I am right and my opponents are wrong.

You may find that abhorrent, and I respect that opinion. However, it is my reality and my reason for being here, and I would bet real money there's a lot of others here just like me (whether they admit to it or not).

We are all propagandists here. Some of us just have higher quantities and qualities of facts and evidence to back up what we say.

[edit on 5/30/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Originally posted by intrepid
Science, meet your maker

The Gullibility of Evolutionists

Do I need to go on?

You might need to, yes, because those two threads were topics opened to discussion and debate. Their focus was not on complaining about how rotten and biased ATS is, how certain groups are taking over ATS, or asking mods to silence opposing views like the threads I mentioned did. There are tons of anti-religion threads on ATS so if I start a thread critical of evolution (which I have been told repeatedly is a science opened to criticism) or if Bigwhammy starts a thread tying science into a process of God, I truly don't see that as Christian fundies taking over ATS. I take it as an alternative view.

I think Zeitgeist is complete propaganda probably in the same way Astyanax views creationism but the difference is I would not have the audacity to make a thread asking for mod involvement to silence those who endorse the film.

Then what is the point? I would think religious folk would take the high road, was I wrong?

Yes and no. Most of the time we do however we are entitled to participate in heated debates along with the best of them without being accused of being a bad representative of our faith or tag teaming. Astyanax is entitled to his opinion with this thread and I am entitled to mine. My major issue with his thread is the asking for creationists to fall under staff review as we are 'destroying ATS.' All six of us.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by intrepid
Ashley, read the part below, then read your words above. Irony, not just for pressing clothes anymore.

Irony? On that I will agree with you. It is ironic in the sense that the OP is one of the most antagonistic members in this forum so it is blowing my mind how he is the one who started this thread to play the victim.

_______________________________________________________________________

Edit: And just for the record to anyone who is reading my comments, I am not remotely upset at the moment although I am sure I am coming across as very vocal and matter-of-fact. I'm just bringing another perspective to this thread and am not taking the OP or anything else in this thread personally.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by The Nighthawk


If I could quantify levels of truth from 1-10, Id give you a 10 for your last post.

reply to post by AshleyD


I've had my say, NO ONE knows my beliefs as it comes to this discussion. I know I won't move atheists nor the religious. The reader sees, that's the big thing. I'm NOT going to bang my head against the wall BUT, if anyone wants to go head to head in the Debate Forum, I will welcome that. Structured debate, judged by impartial members.

reply to post by intrepid


I understand and I think what you are saying is actually the voice of reason concerning debating topics where you know the people you are debating will not be swayed.

However, the point of this thread is asking for the mods to silence one side of the origins issue and that is what I have problems with. If people want to engage in threads where nothing will ever be resolved then by all means do so- it's their time and energy. But don't make threads asking for staff interference to silence your opponents and resorting to false accusations in an effort to make your case. It's childish.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Most posting members I have read from are far too polarized for the kind of "reasoned debate" you propose. I myself am a part of it. I see myself as an advocate of what I see as reality, both the way it is and the way it could (and should) be.

My role is not to change the minds of members who disagree with me.

My role is to present my evidence in as strong, and entertaining, a manner possible in order to convice the casual visitor with no definitive opinion that I am right and my opponents are wrong.

Now there's someone who "Get's It".
Your previous post (on the previous page) was also applause worthy IMO.

As for the OP, no one "group" or "gang" no matter how large or small or how vocal or shrill will be the end of ATS.

We've simply grown too big for that IMO.
.

All those words to make such a simple statement:

- You don't like Religion.

- You don't like Religious People.

- You don't want Religious People to be allowed to argue their side while you discuss how you don't like them or their Religious Beliefs.

- You want participation in your topics of interest limited only to those you approve of.

Did I miss anything? Yes I did:

- Religious People will eventually destroy ATS just by participating here.

There, now I think I have it. Perhaps we should use some sort of Black Ball system to keep out the undesirables with you controlling it. Would that please you?

I have never seen anyone banned who did not deserve it and that includes the time I was banned briefly. The Mod's here are very fair and respectable.

You have proved here, that persecution of classes of people based solely on their beliefs, is alive and well in this world. I hope you did not wear any blisters on your fingers expressing your intolerance toward others beliefs in such a LONG flowery dissertation.

If ATS ever becomes this exclusive club you want it to be, I'm sure an extremely large number of us, both Religious and Non-Religious, would be glad to quit coming here as we would not want to offend you.

Zeich Heil Astyanax. Somehow, I'm unsurprised to see that Religious Persecution is alive and well in this world. I'll pray for you

reply to post by The Nighthawk


Awesome post Nighthawk. Those stars are well deserved

reply to post by The Nighthawk


Point well taken friend. After reading through some other posts I realized "Discussion" may have been a better word than "debate". Lately though, it seems that many threads have become nothing more than debates or arguments as opposed to discussions. It's the lack of real content that bugs me. There used to be a lot of intellectual conversation to be read as the OP mentioned, but presently a much of what I read has no relevance to what the threads are about. It is a lot of name calling and finger pointing.

In my first post in this thread I mentioned that a lot of things are repeated, and I think that directly affects the way in which discussions progress. When information that is constantly presented over and over, people want something else.. That is why I mentioned several times good credible sources and at one point I said NEW information.

I will admit whole heartedly that I'm new to posting here on ATS and I don't necessarily share the some "polarized" opinions that many here do. I was simply giving my perspective on this and I see where you're coming from. I figured it couldn't hurt and I might learn something about fellow members and I did! You have given me a look at this from your perspective and I appreciate your honest approach.. That's what I think its all about.. Of course, to each their own

Great thread, I'm optimistic that this board can outlive the ignorant/ignorance!

Like the "fringe thinkers" title (could be a forum in itself!) It's great but lets remember that there is a reason that Einstein began as a fringe thinker but soon became mainstream. He was actually theorising with provable parameters - much more convincing than the other theories held in high regard at the time -much of his work still helps us send probes out into space or predict the movements of bodies in the solar system and beyond. Many of peoples arguements for an "alternative truth" don't stand up to much scrutiny so I don't think they deserve the courtesy of being called fringe thinkers!

The internet is as much a hinderance as a help! Many people I read on forums don't come online hoping for enlightenment but to prove themselves right. They come for a virtual slanging match (because they don't like the ones they have in real life!) hoping for an ego boost. Many are too proud (or insecure) to admit they were incorrect or didn't have their facts straight or that they learned from someone else. 9/11 debates are filled with them.

I feel a little sad I didn't know of these forums before the RW BBC story...

If you ask me why there are debates between the 2 sides are because they fail to see the big picture. All of them do not just some but all.

GOD is the center
He created
SPIRITUAL WORLD - HEAVEN, ANGELS
PHYSICAL WORLD - ALEINS AND HUMANS
That is it............. THIS IS GOD WORLD



ALIENS - SATAN MAINLY
WE ONLY SEE THE PHYSICAL WORLD SO THIS IS OUR TRUTH FOR NOW THIS IS OUR FOCUS SO WE CAN NOT FIND THE SPIRIT REALM
RELIGION
THEOLOGY
PHYSICAL SCIENCE
TECHNOLOGY
GOVERNMENT
ECONOMY
EDUCATION
----THIS IS SATANS WORLD AN THE ONE WE ARE TRAPPED IN NOW.....HIS ENTIRE EXISTANCE NOW IS TO OWN THE PHYSICAL WORLD WHICH INCLUDES THE UNIVERSE....

HE MAKES YOU WANT PROOF AND HAS BEEN BREEDING IT INTO FOR ALMOST 3000 YEARS SINCE THE FLOOD.... THIS IS WHY MOST EVERYONE FORGETS ABOUT THE SPIRITUAL REALM BECAUSE IF YOU ARE NOT TAUGHT IT OR TALKS OF IT< THERE IS A LOSS ON IT.

GOD FINDS AWAY BECAUSE HE IS GOD TO SEND MESSAGES AND KEEPS PEOPLE WITH FAITH...GOD WORLD IS BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL...... SATANS WORLD IS JUST PHYSICAL.....

ILLUSIONS

LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.... ALL YOU do is just focus on the one subject without taking other possibilties.... Now put them all together and draw the picture out not just a piece...

We all know what that something is happening but we are limiting ourselves to only one thing. It is more then that. It is so many things that have connections and reason behind them and it all points to the one source.

GOD IS REAL, ALIENS ARE REAL, THE SCIENCE IS REAL, TECHNOLOGY IS REAL, PHYSICAL UNIVERSE IS REAL, SPIRITUAL UNIVERSE IS REAL, SLAVERY IS REAL, THE NWO IS REAL, THE STORIES LEADING BACK TO IT ARE REAL, GOD IS GOING TO SAVE MOST OF US IS REAL, SATAN IS GOING TO KILL A LOT OF US IS REAL, THE SPACE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED FOR THE ALIENS AND THEY USE IT AS THERE COMMAND CENTER OVER EARTH IS REAL, ALIENS HAVE A CONNECTION TO THE NWO IS REAL, GOD IS LETTING THIS HAPPEN IS REAL, THE GOVERNMENT ARE THE SLAVE OWNERS TASK MASTERS ARE REAL.

All everything everyone is saying on here is real. Just there are STORIES and I call them STORIES because thats what they are, are just here to indentify the wrong culprit and to lead you to a dead end.

reply to post by uknow_me72


And how do you know all this?
You don't.
You're just another mouthpiece of the twisted and deliberately misled that came before you.
Even as early as 300AD, Christianity was ripping off the Greek philosophers, like Plato, for their spiritual philosophy. Not to mention all the other early religious ideas they stole. All existant religions are total corruptions, and that being that, all followers have been conned. You're perpetuating a blatant control system that should have died the day the enlightenment was born.
Truth will set us free.

reply to post by Astyanax


I have a 5th "solution" for you people who dislike the Creationist threads...
Do not go into the Origins & Creationism board and or threads that contain that topic.

I dont believe in Creationism OR Evolution, i believe in my own type of Intelligent Design Theory. So i avoid threads like these. This way i can avoid the eternal back and forth ranting these type of threads produce.

If you dont avoid them then those threads can really got under your skin if your not careful. Im happy and confident about my belief so i dont need to go and try to make everyone else see my way of thinking because its impossible.

Theres no need to say ATS is going downhill because of "these" people who have "these" beliefs etc.

The only reason i go into the Origins & Creationism board is if im extremely bored and in a bad mood and feel like a nice intelligent argument with people who think their belief is the correct or most logical or scientifically correct...blah,blah, and laugh while they drag whole hell on me if i say something that challenged their beliefs, i hardly do this anymore though.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by markjaxson]

reply to post by cruzion



*SNIP*

Don't let ignorance deceive you. You will get a history lesson.

I can tell you I know this because I am not like you. I have woke up and have started to expiriance both worlds. I am being taught a new technology that is not physical. It also explains how this physical works a lot better then physical sceince does.

If you want to work at being enlightened and being able to know the real you, you will need to know the illusions that are fogging your minds. The way to wake you up is to get the information I want to give you. It will all be clear in the end. If you remain not to get it you will remain asleep until they put your collar on and drag you around.

Do not accept the CHIP.

The biggest lie that they have gave you is not telling you who you really are.

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.
[edit on 30-5-2008 by uknow_me72]

[edit on 30/5/2008 by Mirthful Me]

Creationists Cannot Destroy ATS

The only thing that can truly threaten a community like ours is intolerance for different ideas, beliefs and perspectives.

It is easy enough to point a finger at someone else, but much harder to see it in ourselves.

Indeed, "Science" is the least tolerant of religions, and requires as much faith as any other.

The challenge facing all of us is to recognize our own prejudices.

When we encounter points of view we don't agree with, we can take the opportunity to declare our faith in our own infallibility or we can accept the possibility that despite (or perhaps because of) the strengths of our convictions, we could still be wrong.

To realize this is to liberate ourselves from the prison of dogmatism and, potentially, to deny our own ignorance.

It's not easy, but it's worthwhile and highly recommended.

Does it really matter whether there are christians on this board? Its quite ignorant to rope christians because don't believe there claims hold any eveidence. Now if I said athiests/non-creationists were going to ruin ATS wouldn't that be ignorant of me to make such a claim? Science can't explain everything and when it can't, the science community has a problem letting it go and giving it to a higher power but no they have to push until they can physically prove why something happened. And if science is almighty and the answer to everything, why can't Stephen Hawking cure himself? And another thing, can you explain why there are no fossils showing a transitional stage? Because there isn't, and this came from one of evolutions top promoters. The name slips me now though.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by IsThisTheEnd]

reply to post by intrepid

No but I think it SHOULD run without antagonism, condesention and, in some cases, outright hostility.

That would be nice. But we are all only human. If we start passing judgement, (to much). Who will be the judge?

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.
[edit on 30/5/2008 by Mirthful Me]

Urm.... Soliciting I guess is what you are mentioning?

I have asked you guys for a blog I wouldn't need to do it that way but you never respond.

So it's how I have to do it.

Now if why does politics always have to get into things.... I mean really, I have said before that ATS is a dis-information outlet and is being monitored constantly and having things reported to others.

I do appreciate that I can distribute information out through your site but if you can not see logic in how a board where people are getting information to get free from NWO or what ever they believe to have so many rules to follow and have people policing their post here??