Creationists Will Destroy ATS

reply to post by Gigatronix


Ah. You're mistaking my idea of God for the idea of the diety God here on this planet.

My God is nothing less and nothing more than Existence.

I apologize for that possible mishap.

You can, in a more simpler manner refer to my God as energy, the universe, existence. My existence is absolutely everything, my God is 100% logical, 100% perfect, and 100% knowable.

I worship my existence. I study my existence, I know my existence and therfore my God. I have no faith. I have no religion.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
You know, I actually liked your theories a lot better when I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that you didn't believe in God.

You may have missed it, but from the start I stated that God is everything.

Now that you're slapping the God label on your ideas, I can't really get into it anymore. I would gladly believe all this stuff about energy, logic, and everything else you've been describing. But once you start calling it God(even if it's for a lack of a better word), start talking about priveledged knowledge, and your duty to spread it, it just reeks of the same ol same ol.

Until you can prove that it is otherwise you're just an agry Human with an opinion that is factless and unevidential.

Let's go back to the unknowable for just a second. When talking about the elephant seal or whatever, you concluded that in all likelihood we would discover it's manner of operation,despite the other gentlemans assertion that it was unknowable. This is a safe bet, that we would determine it's ways of existing. The same logic applies to all things though. While we may not have evidence or proof of God now, there's no telling if it will be forthcoming in the future. There's no telling that it hasn't already been made available, and we are just ignorant of it.

The diety God and the idea of God in religious institutions is false.

The point is, we can't logically say anything is unknowable, and we certainly can't say anything is eternally unknowable.

Yes we can. But wouldn't be a "thing". The eternally uknonwable is that which will never suffice evidence.

Which brings me to my main complaint against your theories. I don't think you can safely say your logic or information is perfect or flawless.

Yes. I can. My logic is flawless and perfect, because it is the logic of the universe. The universe is the only physical relevance to reality.

The only way someone could make this assertion is if they knew EVERYTHING in all time frames.

Incorrect. I didn't say I knew everything. I said my logic is flawless, on the other hand knowing energy and knowing that it is eternal is in fact knowing something in all of its time frames, hence knowledge is transcendent through the eternity of energy.

Somewhere along the lines of your theories there is something you don't know, or something you are mistaken about. In dealing with people who know even less, your logic may appear perfect because they are unable split hairs finely enough to expose your ignorance about something. And believe me you are ignorant about something, everyone is.

And I should believe you that I am ignorant about something, why? Because you say so? Prove it.

The point is, I sincerely doubt you KNOW for a FACT that every element of your hypothesis is true. You may believe it to be true because, according to your own logic(which is most certainly subject to some kind of bias) it all makes sense.

My logic is perfect and it is parallel and based on the existence of perfection, which is existence itself.

And might I add, if you're going to be spreading "knowledge" people may be more receptive if you refrain from asserting they have a psychological malady. Going around insulting people and giving yourself pats on the back is not exactly the model of mental or psychological excellence.

They do. It's not an assertion sir, it's a validated fact. 90% of this planet's inhabitants or more have this schizophrenia. It's not an insult, unles being made aware of your ignorances and your psychological dissorders is considered an insult.

I'll pat myself on the back all that I want to, no one else does

Anyway, I've gotta go help my friend and his fiance move into their new home. I hope that when I reutnr I find something less of just angry ranting, opinions, assertions and assumptions, and a little more of well structured debate.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

You may have missed it, but from the start I stated that God is everything.

I did not miss it. Nor did I miss your assertion that your version of God is sentient. So concrete is sentient? My cellphone? Please explain.

Until you can prove that it is otherwise you're just an agry Human with an opinion that is factless and unevidential.

You/re making an assumption about me, therefore your logic on this matter is flawed. And prove what is otherwise? That you have an opinion or theory? The onus is not on me to prove that you didn’t get priveledged information or that you have a duty to spread said information, it’s on you to prove that you did. Please do so by providing evidence and facts.

The diety God and the idea of God in religious institutions is false.

You’re preaching to the choir on this one.

Yes we can. But wouldn't be a "thing". The eternally uknonwable is that which will never suffice evidence.

Maybe in your opinion it will never suffice. Are you the authority on knowledge now? If it doesn’t meet your criteria, then it is unsuitable for all people? How can you claim that evidence will NEVER reveal itself or that it would be sufficient to determine a truth?You can see into the future now, as well as the past?

Yes. I can. My logic is flawless and perfect, because it is the logic of the universe. The universe is the only physical relevance to reality.

You’re not explaining how your logic is infallible, you’re only reiterating your opinion. Please provide evidence.

Incorrect. I didn't say I knew everything. I said my logic is flawless, on the other hand knowing energy and knowing that it is eternal is in fact knowing something in all of its time frames, hence knowledge is transcendent through the eternity of energy.

By saying that your logic is perfect you are implying that you know everything. If you don’t know everything your logic cannot be perfect.

And I should believe you that I am ignorant about something, why? Because you say so? Prove it.

Are you aware of the political climate of an alien world on the other side of the galaxy? Are you aware of all civilizations that have ever existed on earth?Are you aware of every video game that has ever been released? If you don’t know everything you are ignorant of what you don’t know.

My logic is perfect and it is parallel and based on the existence of perfection, which is existence itself.

You’re justifying your opinion based on your opinion. It will be opinion until you can prove it to be true. If you can please do so.

They do. It's not an assertion sir, it's a validated fact. 90% of this planet's inhabitants or more have this schizophrenia. It's not an insult, unles being made aware of your ignorances and your psychological dissorders is considered an insult.

Validated by who? Please provide a reference. Until that time, it’s an opinion, and by extension an insult.

I'll pat myself on the back all that I want to, no one else does

Anyway, I've gotta go help my friend and his fiance move into their new home. I hope that when I reutnr I find something less of just angry ranting, opinions, assertions and assumptions, and a little more of well structured debate.

I have not ranted, and as far opinions,assertions, and assumptions go, you’re just as guilty of it as anyone.

Edit to fix quotes and spelling.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Gigatronix]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Gigatronix]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by Gigatronix]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


No, this is not spam. This is me being forced to repeat something several times because you are obstinate.

When you explained your understanding of the definition of unknowable, it seems logical, but through further introspection, it is a apparently unsound and unfounded.

The way you interpret the word; you can never call anything unknowable, because to label something so, you would have to have absolutely no knowledge of it. This is inherently specious.

Now we can move past your delusion that the word “unknowable” can never be attributed to anything.

Now we can address your denial that Your credibility is gone.

[edit on 6/14/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by JPhish
No, this is not spam. This is me being forced to repeat something several times because you are obstinate.

^^ ^^ Once again, more spammage.

The way you interpret the word; you can never call anything unknowable, because to label something so, you would have to have absolutely no knowledge of it. This is inherently specious.

Precisely! You can never state anything unknowable to have attributes of any kind! Leave the unknowable alone. Not a simple concept to swollow there JPhish? When you can grasp this simplistic logic, let me know. If your God is unknowable you can not know anything about it! So pleaaaaase, save it!

Now we can move past your delusion that the word “unknowable” can never be attributed to anything.

Actually, more spam on your behalf because you STILLLLLLL, after all of this time do not understand what I've been telling you for the past 10 pages now?

The word unknown can be applied to observable things that we don't know the operations of. For instance, we currently don't know how elephant seals deep sea dive. We can observe elephants seals and their environment, we can also observe them diving. However, you can not simultaneously call something unknown and invisible and then begin to explain its attributes, mechanisms and operations! If I was to sit here and tell you that you've got to have faith in the elephant seal's deep sea dives and that it is unknowable, and then turn around and say that it works through snot bubbles sealed within its fat, then you're going to ask me for evidence and I'd be in content of contradiction! Just like you saying God is unknowable and then attempting to explain what God is without evidence!

Now we can adress your delususion, schizophrenia, poor debating skills and lack of ability to patiently understand other posters.

My superiority and your lack of credibility and logic... AGAIN

Enjoy

There is no God diety and your idea of God is an invisible unknown and an invisible and an unknown. At no point in time will you ever be able to use an argument for your idea of God that actually consists of using your God as evidence. You can only use my idea of God to attempt to prove the idea of your God, which is a contradiction. My God is physical, tangible and knowable. Yours isn't. You can not use tangible concepts such as the elephant seal to truly explain your unknowable God. :bash:

There is a book with a good title: The God Delusion. You are the clearest example that I have of this yet.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I believe the book of Daniel refers to your god as the god of forces, indicating that although God created the forces, they are but depictions of his abilities and past creations. i'm unsure if the text means there's literally a god of forces, but it could be. and if you believe it to be so, that makes essentially your god. personally, if i were you, i wouldn't hang my destiny or eternity on something as temporary as this physical dimension.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
I did not miss it. Nor did I miss your assertion that your version of God is sentient. So concrete is sentient? My cellphone? Please explain.

I am sentient and you are sentient. My God is the unvierse and everything that is of it and that it is of. The universe has sentient beings, and since you did not miss it... then, why did you... oh geez, nvm.

You/re making an assumption about me, therefore your logic on this matter is flawed.

Now that is true. I do not know whether you are angry or not, but as for opinions and factless assumptions, you do fall into the basket and in this particular case, so do I. You're correct. My logic regarding this investigation was flawed as I have no proof that you are angry.

get priveledged information or that you have a duty to spread said information, it’s on you to prove that you did. Please do so by providing evidence and facts.

Privelaged information? Can you not see the perfection of existence? It's as simple as its eternal continuum and interconnected sub atomic synchronicity.

Maybe in your opinion it will never suffice.

Actually no. It's simple Logic. Eternally unknowable=no evidence, ever. Do you know what knowledge is? Unknowable... knowledge, make the connection.

Are you the authority on knowledge now? If it doesn’t meet your criteria, then it is unsuitable for all people?

Nope, I said that an eternally unknowable thing will never produce evidence.

How can you claim that evidence will NEVER reveal itself or that it would be sufficient to determine a truth?You can see into the future now, as well as the past?

Because the line of logic is that it is eternally unknowable. Pretty simple. Yeah with this statement I can see into the future and the past. Eternal= all moments past, present and future. Eternally unknowable.

You’re not explaining how your logic is infallible, you’re only reiterating your opinion. Please provide evidence.

You are correct. I have still made some rookie flaws, but eventually these will all be sifted out. Assumptions and opinions lead to flawed logic. The logic of the objective universe is flawless, this is what I am becoming and what I can see and know.

By saying that your logic is perfect you are implying that you know everything. If you don’t know everything your logic cannot be perfect.

When applied to knowledge that I have, my logic is flawless. When not applied to knowledge that I have I am illogical and I make assumptions and it becomes flawed, as demonstrated by me here.

Are you aware of the political climate of an alien world on the other side of the galaxy? Are you aware of all civilizations that have ever existed on earth?Are you aware of every video game that has ever been released? If you don’t know everything you are ignorant of what you don’t know.

I am not ignorant of the evidential knowledge that I have. There is no evidence of extra-terrestial civilizations. I will not speculate on their affairs. I can be made aware of all civilizations that have existed on Earth as far as what we currently have as recorded history is concerned. I can be aware of every video game released through what we currently have as recorded history. I can know anything that there is to be known, I can not know that which will never be known. My logic of the things that are known will be flawless, my logic applied to things that are not known will be inherently flawed.

You’re justifying your opinion based on your opinion. It will be opinion until you can prove it to be true. If you can please do so.

As shown through the mistake of my assumption about your character, my logic has been flawed today. I have learned a lesson and it is another step toward perfection of logic.

Validated by who? Please provide a reference. Until that time, it’s an opinion, and by extension an insult.

The definition of schizophrenia.

I have not ranted, and as far as opinions,assertions, and assumptions go, you’re just as guilty of it as anyone.

You have ranted with opinions and assertions. I am guilty on one count, yes, of assumption.

My logic, today with you, was not flawless on one occasion. In the future I will not make assumptions about another's emotional state unless that other has stated so itself. This is another step towards logical perfection.

So my logic, although perfect for a time, today has stumbled. Today my logic was not flawless and admittedly so and evidentially provable.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by undo
i wouldn't hang my destiny or eternity on something as temporary as this physical dimension.

The physical is not temporary. Its energy sempiternal with neither beginning or end. Its space eternal with neither beginning or end, and so its time.

What it is that is me has always existed and always will. I am eternal through my energy. The same goes for all of us and for everything.

Also, you wouldn't hang your destiny on eternity or on something as temporary as this physical dimension? Is the idea of God that you explain not eternal? And do you not know him through this physical reality?

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I'm really glad that the admin. decided to reform the rules on here about new categories for religious blogging. The most irritating aspect of it all was that a person would be on here talking about a conspiracy theory that "the church" might have been at the center of, and the thread would constantly be derailed by what almost looked like a gang of christian mafia members. The new changes should definately help.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by skyshow

What are you supposed to learn from the 'bretheren'? (sp)
The title is 'creationists' will destroy ATS,
not a dissertation on what we believe.

I'm surprised this thread's still going, too, with the same old tired insults.

People, try to get over it.
STUPID, LACKLUSTER posts and lack of fair play MIGHT destroy ATS, but I even doubt that.

Originally posted by Clearskies
People, try to get over it.
STUPID, LACKLUSTER posts and lack of fair play MIGHT destroy ATS, but I even doubt that.

I agree. The stupud, lackluster posts and tiring delusional mental retardation of some posters is ridiculous.

The fact that I have to go back 10 pages and copy things I've already said and re-explain them, and then copy things that opposing posters have said and re-explain them, is a daft drag... but... someone's gotta do it or they'll never learn how to debate or understand anything.

Quite simply, I don't think members here (of any belief) are dumb enough to give up their own personal beliefs out of frustration and just "give up".

As a believer that "I" am god and "this" is my universe.....I doubt if a stranger on the internet could change my mind about that from a distant keyboard.

It is the people who only believe in a single truth that put up the brick walls!

The influx of "creationists" has only given me a better perspective of the possibilities for my world and a greater sense of acceptance for others beliefs, not convinced me of anything truly religious.

Why question these kind of concepts unless we are able to remove the blinkers and see the BIGGER picture instead of just turning our heads.

My search for truth and inspiration here on ATS/BTS continues........as does my wish to provide the same......

reply to post by nerbot


I had to go back and edit my entire post to better explain what I meant to say. It's not (at least for me anyway) a problem at all whatsoever to consider or interact on religious material with a believer on line, when I have a problem though, is when the topic is regarding evidence of an alleged conspiracy whereby "the church" may be directly at the center, and then a bunch of folks come on and start arguing creation vs evolution, or accusing someone of being an atheist or whatever...then the thread becomes derailed and so full of back and forth wedge issues, that the original meaning becomes lost and the thread dies. When it became obvious that an organized effort by some was in effect and religious operatives were hard at work something had to be done. Hopefully this will effectively terminate that bizarre and counterproductive sort of activity that really only spread discontent across the board.

reply to post by skyshow


Just don't get involved!

Why :bnghd: and fight when you can stand back, learn and

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


sorry to add insult to injury . . .

If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to believe my beliefs are true…and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms.
- Professor Haldane - (Possible Worlds, p. 209)

but there goes your entire belief system, out the proverbial window.

[edit on 6/17/2008 by JPhish]

the title of the OP says it all - and its all ridiculous...believers defend their positions just as atheists, polytheists, republicans, democrats, conspiracy buffs and the like defend theirs - when there is an interesting subject put up - peeps come to post - there is NO Creationist conspiracy on ATS - just folks with a paticular take on the issue....however, because a few of you whiners can't take the f-ing heat you go running to daddy to change the rules...its purile and disgusting but congratulations!! You are now the proud winners of a paranoid pissing contest - I can hardly contain my awe of your superior intellects Try not to eat the yellow snow

Originally posted by JPhish
sorry to add insult to injury . . .

Apologizing to yourself before the body of your post? You must have made more inherent boo boos. Not unexpected.

If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain,

Well, they aren't.

So much for the rest of your quote. If you had any knowledges of the sciences you'd come up with something original, but, as evidenced repetitively, you don't.

I have no reason to believe my beliefs are true…and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms.
- Professor Haldane - (Possible Worlds, p. 209)

What a flaming idiot this professor is. I hopew this is a fiction book, but honestly my time is more precious than your futile attempts at making sense, so I'm not going to research this book. However, it is not a supposition that the brain is composed ov various atoms and neuro-electric currents. As I said, and I'll continue to say: I have no beliefs, only knowledge, logic and fact. Tough for you to deal with, eh?

but there goes your entire belief system, out the proverbial window.

I have no belief system, but anyway at closer look, since you subsrice to this quote, there goes yours as well. DUH *flips lips up and down and crosses eyes* I'm JPhish. I always refute my own logic and I'm never aware of it. See a psychiatrist, that invisible man isn't making you any smarter or any more honest. What a waste of valuable space.

As I told you before. You have no free will and you have no choice, you are merely a reaction as is everything else in perfect synchronicity with the sempiternal system. You're almost catching on now... almost... nah. I over-estimate you. You'll never a word of sound reason or logic, in one ear and out the other, or in this case you're myopic to it.

Religion is stupid, the idea of an invisible unknowable God with attributes is stupid and is a contradiction, and one who claims to be athiest and stand for everything that you stand for is stupid. You sir, are stupid and deceptive.

Have a great night.

P.s. I'd put money on it that you've already forgotten the past 10 pages of our thread and that your next response will consist of your same old tired illogical babbling or misquoted references and quotes that make no sense... or the big one... self refuting quotes.



Some people were just born better than others, you know? Don't hate me for it, hate God. He liked me better.

You've been proven wrong, based on your own words, several times already. . .

What we need, is an impartial moderator, to come on this thread and decide;

"Who is right, and who is dead." -Westley

[edit on 6/18/2008 by JPhish]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

What a flaming idiot this professor is.

I think it was the (not entirely unintelligent) Arthur C. Clarke who said that Haldane was one of the most intelligent people he knew.

Haldane - along with R.A. Fisher and Sewell Wright - is justly credited with creating the "Modern Synthesis" of genetics, morphology, and evolutionary biology.

Source

You've almost certainly heard or read Haldane's most famous saying: 'my... suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.'

Well, that's from Possible Worlds. Published, incidentally, in 1927, but still well worth the trouble of reading.

You'll find a mine of Haldane quotes here. Have a read, and see whether you still think he's a flaming idiot afterwards.

Egads, you said the magic word, JPHISH!
just for you, an avatar made from a painting i did of wesley
who happens to be one of my favorite movie characters
(you dont have to use it, btw! is the thought that counts!)



source
fc06.deviantart.com...