Am I Racist

Originally posted by spitefulgod
For the record, I do not know any black people, the only black people I have experience of are on the TV shows and also having seen several Afro-Carabians around town although they are in a small minority but integrate well into english society unlike others minorities, even if your stats were correct and overall the Black africans are a few points below the other races I would easily prefer them to muslims.
[edit on 28/5/2008 by spitefulgod]

Well the demographics here are 60% African American. I am very familiar with them. They are responsible for the vast majority of crime here. We do not have a lot of Muslims, and I have had Muslim neighbors, and worked with some, and I have found them to be quite kind, educated, and trustworthy.

That is the thing about prejudice, they say it is ignorance. People become prejudice not from what they are taught, but from what they personally experience.

Edit though it would be interesting to look at the overal crime statistics in Muslim countries, and compare those to the stats of Black countries. I have visited a conservative Muslim country and felt quite safe because their laws are strict and their people are civilized. I doubt one would find that is the case in the vast majority of Black run countries, the crime stats in many of those countries are astounding.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
That is the thing about prejudice, they say it is ignorance. People become prejudice not from what they are taught, but from what they personally experience.

I agree wholeheartedly, and maybe you've hit on something, you are surrounded by black people and have grown to dislike them although do not consider Muslims the same, the reverse is true for me, although I am also an avid hater of the equivalent to your "trailer trash" as they are no better.

I guess it's the law of averages mixed with my general tendency to dislike most people.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Edit though it would be interesting to look at the overal crime statistics in Muslim countries, and compare those to the stats of Black countries. I have visited a conservative Muslim country and felt quite safe because their laws are strict and their people are civilized. I doubt one would find that is the case in the vast majority of Black run countries, the crime stats in many of those countries are astounding.

This is a government issue, laws in muslim countries are much harser (and rightly so) and are carried out without much thought for PC, the current african governments are corrupt and useless.

To all those engaging in race-based discussions (especially Agent), I have one question to ask you.

Suppose I agree with you that there are biological and cultural differences between races. Suppose that I agree that using a median point for each race yields significant, clear and present distinctions between races.

What do you propose to do about it? Are you advocating the genocide of those races with lower median IQ marks? Are you advocating the extermination of a supposed "criminal faction" within society?

Personally, I am tired of the race debate. I happen to think that there are scientifically proven differences between races, but I dont really care. Its scientifically proven that men of Kenyan origin in median terms have 15% greater lung capacities than any other race... thats why Kenyans almost always win marathons. It is also statistically proven that certain racial immigrant groups (Ashkenazi jews, chinese, indians, koreans, japanese) consistently perform better in school and employment than other racial immigrant groups.

What I want to see is a pure system of meritocracy and justice. A person gets the job because they are the best for it, or a person gets arrested for a crime they committed. If a system such as this is put in place, every race and every person will achieve what they are capable of and deserve.

Hence if affirmative action is ceased, and a purely meritocratic system is put in place, we will see what the true situation is regarding the races; and furthermore race will not matter, nor will it be applicable as an excuse for misdemeanours or failure.

The first and foremost reason not to racially prejudge people is because of the exceptions to any race. A black man could well be immensely intelligent, as easily as a white man could be ineptly criminal in nature. We must STOP race based politics and start MERIT based politics. Its time to start treating people for who they are, not what they are. No exceptions, no affirmative action, no racism..

reply to post by 44soulslayer

I'd liek to see this world although I doubt it's plausible as long as people mix religion with lifestyle.

Religions will never mix without conflict.

reply to post by orby1976


Thats not true.

Only some religions (the hard line ones, I might add), are incapable of mixing.

Are you honestly telling me that you have a problem with Buddhists living near you?

While I agree with the broad notion that discrimination based upon religion is not desirable, because once again it fails to account for the anomalies (that is good people in a "bad" religion), it is also clear to me that some religions are inherently peaceful (such as buddhism).

I have never encountered a buddhist terrorist, or buddhist fundamentalist. Have you?

ps: Im not buddhist, I just respect the peaceful nature of their religion.

spitefulgod and orby1976 it is about religion and NOT race? So are you saying those Muslims that are primarily Caucasian (i.e. middle eastern Muslims, Saudi's, Iranians, etc...) are the problem?

Just out of curiosity, what is the race of these Muslims that you find to be such a problem? (I do not mean to be sarcastic, I have no doubt they are a problem) That might help clarify whether the crime you experience is based on religion, or based on race. Lets get specific, what is the racial makeup of those you fear will cut you? Rob you? Rape your women?

Answer and then you can prove your point regarding religion vs. racial leanings.

reply to post by Sonya610


I think from my experience in the areas I know of the problems are generally Muslims of Pakistani origin..

reply to post by Sonya610


Where i live i have a big problem with the muslims from Pakistan, it's these ones in yorkshire where im from, or all over the uk that cause the problems. I have no problem with anyone else. Unless they start acting in the same manner.
Does anyone from the uk remember the manningham riots a few years ago.They caused millions of pounds in damage.
And all because one muslim was arrested for something.
All that coupled with personal experience of these people has just made me so untrusting of them. Like i said in a previouse post, i challenge anyone to spend a month in Bradford around the Manningham or little horton area.

reply to post by shuck


Confirmed, although my angst is directed at them as a group, I still feel it's the governments fault for giving them liberties that others do not have and allowing their religion to interfere with laws and equality.

reply to post by orby1976


I remember the riots, and who paid for all the damage??

I know of no go areas if you are white in Leeds and Bradford,

I see many expensive cars with about five Muslim males driven about and seen many abuse other drivers , I m sure there is a great deal of info that is kept quiet by the police for fear of another riot.

You have to live in te areas to understand...the most unfortunate thing I find is the many Sikhs, Hindu's are tarred with the same brush, I have had many Asian and black friends and they too have expressed ther concern!

reply to post by shuck


I hope that I have proved in my previous posts that I am no racist.

However there is a clear and present danger of the Pakistani, radical islamic community in the UK.

Does anyone else here live in Manchester? On Eid, the entire Pakistani community came onto the streets of Manchester, blaring their horns in their cars, waving Pakistani flags in the street and shouting "Paki power".
Frankly such behaviour is obnoxious and unacceptable. One could only imagine the chaos of a single white person shouting "white power" out of their car to see that the treatment of races at present is unacceptable!

I saw a woman threatened on the day just for asking a load of youths to turn down their music. I myself nearly got into a fight with them simply for being Indian... (I should explain, if there is a group that the Muslims hate more than white or jewish people, its Indian hindus)

However I do not think that even all these reasons is any justification for mistreating a pakistani. What if they happen to be a nice person? What if they are as kind, intelligent and hardworking as any other member of society?

Yes, we may recognise trends within the British Pakistani community that make them an "undesirable" element of society, but there is nothing that we can (or should) do. What needs to happen is equal enforcing of laws... which is impossible at the moment because the police were quite frankly sh***ing themselves on the day: about 100,000 pakistanis versus 1000 police at most.

Some reading that you may find "enlightening" about the pakistani community in the UK. This is the reason I think most Pakistanis in the UK are so antisocial and lack attainment in education and employment:

news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 28-5-2008 by 44soulslayer]

I got told by the police to take my England flag down off my car during the world cup, as it may cause racial tension.
Did i take it down,, No, but i got pulled over and told to about 4 times.
Now when Pakistan won the cricket a while ago, they were bombibg around in cars with their flags displayed shouting abuse at everyone.
Did the police do anything, no, not a damn thing.
Where's the equality in that?.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


And I am no racist either, there are good people amongst he Muslim community..but from my perspective and what I see, Islam is a religion that breeds fear and they use it amongst themselves for control...I believe that even the good people will tow the line when it comes to it!!.

So is that observation racist..I see it as the truth, I never pre judge anyone regardless of colour gender or creed..but there is a real problem !!

reply to post by shuck



I agree there is a problem, but people hide behind this political correctness to see it. Or they just choose to ignore it and hope it will go away.

reply to post by orby1976


No Orby, theres a difference.

Like I said, there is no doubt that the Muslim community in the UK is causing some problems.

But that said, nothing can be done about it because any action will be unfair to the minority of good, law abiding and decent Muslims.

I agree, it's like i wont take my son to football games because of the possibility of crowd trouble. This does not mean all football fans are hooligans. Out of about a 40-50 thousand crowd only about 50 of those will want to cause trouble. The rest are decent and just want to enjoy the game. That said i am wary of going with my boy incase of trouble. Just like with everything i've experienced im wary of muslims in the uk.

I know it's not much of a comparison, but i hope you will see what im getting at.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
even if your stats were correct and overall the Black africans are a few points below the other races I would easily prefer them to muslims.

Well be glad you are not give the choice. Some stats about crime in the U.K…

Muslims in the United Kingdom are believed to number 1.8 million (about 3%) out of a total population of 60,587,300. and make up 7% of the prison population.

Okay so Muslims account for 7% of the prison population, of that Muslim population 11% are White Britians, 73% are Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi) and 7% are Black which means that brings the percentage of Asian Muslims down to about 5%.

Based on the total population of Asian Muslims at 5%, that means they are a little less than twice as likely to end up in prison as indigenous Brits.

Now on a separate note, Blacks amongst themselves make up 2% of the British Population yet account for 15% of the prison population. That is not double, that is seven times the rate of incarceration rate as indigenous white Brits.

Sources:
en.wikipedia.org... www.homeoffice.gov.uk... and en.wikipedia.org...
www.statistics.gov.uk...

reply to post by orby1976


Yes, I understand where you are coming from Orby.

I do feel wary when near a black youth, muslim youth (im not scared of traditional muslims in their garb), or even a chav (white, lower class youth).

I think therefore it is more important to be wary of the youths engaged in the underclass. Who are you going to be more scared of- an old 80 year old muslim man in his traditional clothes walking with a cane, or a dodgy looking white youth wearing a hoody walking with a pitbull terrier?

I know this post has been based on generalisations, but generalisations are what human defence mechanisms are based on. Rough looking black, muslim and chav youths equate to an increased likelyhood of being attacked in my subconscious, since I have been mugged by them twice in the past. I think that statistics show these trends also.

Is that racist? Probably
Is there anything I can do about it? Not particularly
Do I prejudge anyone just because of their colour? No, never.