Mark "Gravy" Roberts to Debate Richard Gage!!!

Richard Gage from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
www.ae911truth.org... has agreed to debate Mark Roberts, New York City Tour guide.

For those that don't know who these folks are, here is a quick bio on both:

Richard Gage:

Co-Founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. A member of the American Institute of Achitects, Mr. Gage insists that all three buildings that collapsed on 911 were casued by controlled demolitions and is seeking a new independent investigation.

His website currently lists 386 other architectural and engineering professionals that have all joined his cause.

Richard travels the country making many speaking engagements.

Why are Architects and Engineers Re-examining the WTC Collapses?

Architects and Engineers are trained to design buildings that function well and withstand potentially destructive forces. However, the 3 high-rise buildings at the World Trade Center which "collapsed" on 9/11 (the Twin Towers plus WTC Building #7) presented us with a body of evidence (i.e., controlled demolition) that was clearly outside the scope of our training and experience.

www.ae911truth.org...

Mark Robert

Mark Roberts aka Gravy was recently labeled "The Obi-wan Kenobi of debunkers" by Stephen Lemons of the Phoenix New Times. He was also called ""An absolute demon" by Alex Jones.

Mark is a NY City Tour Guide who until a few months ago took on any and all those involved in the truth movement. He spent his Saturday mornings speaking to those at ground zero that questioned the "offical version" regarding 911. His contribution to the forums at JREF have been invaluable to the skeptics.

Mark has encyclopedic knowledge of the events surrounding 911. He has debated several members of the Truth Movement and in my opinion has not had a very hard time showing the faults of their theories. Those include: Dyan Avery & Jason Bermas of Loose Change, Alex Jones (at ground zero)and others. Several other leader of the T.M. have backed off.

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

The Debate:

It appears this debate will take place on June 18th,2008on the Hardfire show. The host will be John Clifton who is, i believe a "truther". The debate forum will be that of a call-in style.

Hopfully this will happen. To date, 9 other leaders of the truth movement have backed out of debates with Mark for various reasons.

Did this debate take place? Where can you watch it?

Yes it did.

All you need to watch is this one minute clip though to see the stupidity of Richard Gage.



If you are interested in watching it.....

Part 1video.google.ca...

Part II

video.google.ca...

[edit on 23-4-2009 by CameronFox]

Originally posted by CameronFox
All you need to watch is this one minute clip though to see the stupidity of Richard Gage.

Gotta love when people like CameronFox call others names because they can't comprehend the physics, instead of being adults and trying to counter someone's argument with facts and evidence.

CameronFox, you may want to have a look in the mirror before calling others stupid.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by _BoneZ_]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurtMark Roberts aka Gravy

Mark is a NY City Tour Guide

Possibly the biggest lie of 9/11.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_Gotta love when people like CameronFox call others names instead of being adults and trying to counter someone's argument with facts and evidence.

CameronFox, you may want to have a look in the mirror before calling others stupid.

BoneZ I've seen you frequently engage in unadult-like behavior, so I wouldn't be pointing too many fingers.

Ok I've just seen the debate between Mark Roberts and Richard Gage, and obviously, Gage won. He creamed Mark. Most of the reviews on Google Video in the comments section agreed.

Mark had nothing going for him. He did NOT present a coherent case for the official story nor did he explain exactly HOW the WTC and Building 7 collapsed. All he did was ask a lot of rhetorical questions and used ad homineum attacks. As an experienced skilled debater and debunker, I could recognize such tactics.

I wish they would bring me on to debate him. I will try contacting Hardfire to see if they're still taking applicants.

Someone should put the debate on YouTube as well.

Originally posted by screwedagain
BoneZ I've seen you frequently engage in unadult-like behavior, so I wouldn't be pointing too many fingers.

How about you stick to the topic at hand as the forum rules say. If you got something to say to me personally, you can do it in PM.

posted by CameronFox

All you need to watch is this one minute clip though to see the stupidity of Richard Gage.

Is that the only minute which did not make you sick to your stomach CF, as your precious 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY sef-destructs right before your eyes?

There is nothing you can do about it; to stop it, is there CameronFox?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2a89fac91af.jpg[/atsimg]


The Liberty Bell is ringing loud and clear again.

Mark Roberts needs to go back to tour-guiding.

Google Video Link

Google Video Link

Comments

Givi
Jul 27, 2008

Mark Roberts was absolutely destroyed in this debate. Richard Gage literally could not have possibly done better in my opinion. I appreciate the new interviewer's attitude as well; he should replace Wieck permanently.

Mike
Jul 27, 2008

Mark Roberts is arrogant and thin-skinned, but that's not why I don't like him. I don't like his method of ad-hominem attacks and lack of any real information contradicting hard evidence brought to light by the 9/11 truth movement. Do a Google Video search for "Calum Douglas Flight 77" and check out www.thepentacon.com for the clearest hard evidence that at least the Pentagon site was completely fabricated. If the Pentagon evidence was fabricated, then everything on 9/11 was.

[edit on 4/24/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Gotta love when people like CameronFox call others names because they can't comprehend the physics, instead of being adults and trying to counter someone's argument with facts and evidence.

CameronFox, you may want to have a look in the mirror before calling others stupid.

You want facts? Then why do you listen to Mr. Gage? Did you watch the debate? Did you happen to listen to the host? (Who is a full blown truther?)

the host ask that you go to both websites... you apparently failed to go to Mr. Robert's website where he points out on Gage's Powerpoint presentation 311 false statements, 114 misleading statements, and 137 logical fallacies.

I may also suggest you go to www.ae911truth.info...

This is not Richards site. It is a site that refutes the many lies and mistakes of Gage. Joe Nobels is the creator of the site. Very nice guy and will answer any questions you may have.

Originally posted by WWu777
Ok I've just seen the debate between Mark Roberts and Richard Gage, and obviously, Gage won. He creamed Mark. Most of the reviews on Google Video in the comments section agreed.

I wonder why "gravy" retired from duhbunking?

All he did was ask a lot of rhetorical questions and used ad homineum attacks. As an experienced skilled debater and debunker, I could recognize such tactics.

So, you've been reading the threads around here then.

Originally posted by WWu777
Ok I've just seen the debate between Mark Roberts and Richard Gage, and obviously, Gage won. He creamed Mark. Most of the reviews on Google Video in the comments section agreed.

So, truthers all think Gage won....

JREF... they all stated Gray won... the only difference, Jref'ers gave reasons.

All he did was ask a lot of rhetorical questions and used ad homineum attacks. As an experienced skilled debater and debunker, I could recognize such tactics.

Gravy used ad hom's during the debate?

Originally posted by CameronFox

So, truthers all think Gage won....

JREF... they all stated Gray won... the only difference, Jref'ers gave reasons.

You know what they say about opinions and a certain human body part. Everyone has one.

[edit on 4/26/2009 by Griff]

Originally posted by CameronFox
I may also suggest you go to www.ae911truth.info...
It is a site that refutes the many lies and mistakes of Gage. Joe Nobels is the creator of the site.

Two points I'm going to make on the above website and then I won't comment on it anymore.

First is responding to the following statement from the website:

the main appeal in these conspiracy theories is for people who are already disenchanted with George Bush

This statement is completely false. Although Gore got more and I was wanting Gore to be president, after 9/11, I was a strong Bush supporter for several years until I accidentally discovered 9/11 truth. We were all brainwashed. Some of us fell out of the trance, some people (you) cling to it hopelessly.

The second comment I'd like to make on the above website is that Joseph Nobles is a theologian with degrees in theology. He is NOT a degreed architect, engineer, or member of the American Institute of Architects that's been practicing for the past 20 years.

That fact alone makes me disinterested in anything Joseph Nobles has to say. He is not remotely qualified to debunk someone who IS qualified with the backing of hundreds of other qualified individuals.

The Truth movement has proven all that is required -- motive, opportunity and intent. Prima facie evidence is the ensuing cover up of the crime scene and destruction of evidence.

Grand Juries are what is required here, not debate.

Originally posted by CameronFox

Joe Nobels is the creator of the site. Very nice guy and will answer any questions you may have.

What expertise does a theologian who is now an agnostic on all matters religious bring to the debate? What could he possibly know about architecture or physics or explosives or demolition technique to warrant his expert witness position you accredit to him CF?

boloboffin is just another know nothing JREF nutcase.

Joseph Nobles

The author of this website.

I am currently a live voice writer, which means I produce captions for live television using voice recognition software. I used to be an working actor with the various "day jobs" such a profession requires. I also graduated from International Bible College (now Heritage Christian University) with a BA in Bible, and attended Harding Graduate School of Religion for two years pursuing a Masters in Christian Theology. I am now an agnostic on all matters religious.

My interest in 9/11 conspiracy theories stems from two places.

When I was a young teenager, I was starting to be consumed by various types of woo. I found a book in my local library, The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved! by Lawrence David Kusche. His patient research and debunking of all Triangle mysteries was a revelation to me. I've always felt a debt to him that helping to debunk 9/11 CT satisfies.

I am also very liberal in my politics. I was posting on my favorite website in 2002, The Smirking Chimp, when someone posted a link to the Hunt the Boeing! website. It caused a sensation and was very quickly shot down there. However, the natural appeal to such Bush-hating CTs among liberals led me to dedicate quite some time to knocking these theories down. It's something that has united a number of people across the political spectrum, but I am happy to do my part in resisting these cynical attempts at political snobbery. Government is a useful tool, the people can assert their control over it, and we can work together to root out corruption and build a better future for those who follow us. The 9/11 CT advocates draw their emotional strength from a dark, cynical view of all things political. The boulevard, as Elton John said, is not that bad.

You can contact me by writing boloboffin at ae911truth.info.
www.ae911truth.info...

Originally posted by Griff


You know what they say about opinions and a certain human body part. Everyone has one.

Correct. I agree 100%.

Truthers stated opinions... While skeptics stated facts.

Originally posted by CameronFox
Truthers stated opinions... While skeptics stated facts.

Yeah, we're still waiting for you to answer how Richard Gage, a 20-year degreed architect and member of the AIA with the backing of hundreds of other architects and engineers is only stating opinions against Joseph Nobles' religious-degreed "wanna-be facts" backed by a list of hundreds of...oh wait, he doesn't have a list of supporters. Can't wait to hear this answer...

[edit on 26-4-2009 by _BoneZ_]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Two points I'm going to make on the above website and then I won't comment on it anymore.

bonez... why did you chose those two? why not address the technical errors Gage made?

First is responding to the following statement from the website:

Well, although I can say for 100% certainty that he is right. I think you will be hard pressed to find even one Bush supporter that thinks 911 was an inside job.

We were all brainwashed. Some of us fell out of the trance, some people (you) cling to it hopelessly.

Speak for yourself. I stand by facts. It is the fantasy of the truth movement that you, my friend are clinging to.

The second comment I'd like to make on the above website is that Joseph Nobles is a theologian with degrees in theology. He is NOT a degreed architect, engineer, or member of the American Institute of Architects that's been practicing for the past 20 years.

Bonez, you have made the appeal to authority. You discredit him for what credentials he lacks. Gage himself admitted himself that he is not qualified for what he is attempting to do.

what about Dr. Griffin? He is the high priest of 911 truth yet his degree is in Theology.

Where is Gage's training in demolition? Why has Gage failed to produce one paper on his own? HE gets he crap from Dr. Griffin... a THEOLOGIAN. He also gets he garbage from Steven Jones... who said Jesus was in the United States...who was fired from BYU for his 911 crack pot ideas.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by CameronFox
Truthers stated opinions... While skeptics stated facts.

Yeah, we're still waiting for you to answer how Richard Gage, a 20-year degreed architect and member of the AIA with the backing of hundreds of other architects and engineers is only stating opinions against Joseph Nobles' religious-degreed "facts" backed by a list of hundreds of...oh wait, he doesn't have a list of supporters. Can't wait to hear this answer...

the "opinions" I was referring to was the debate between Roberts and Gage.

No matter though. Gage is a laughing stock of the AIA. I wish I were on the west coast... Oh Bonez... his appeal for more $$ from his suckers is up on the 28th... 2 more days... you diggin deep?