STOP PRESS - Vast Cracks Appear in Arctic Ice

reply to post by Locus Iste


I guess it depends who the scientists are and their agenda. The scientists within the Global Warming Hoax documentary indicate that vulcanos produce more co2 and so2 than humans. If humans are the problem with global warming, then explain why 1942 was the hottest year on record, with now current cooling trends?

reply to post by pavil

By a cleaner car do you mean a hybrid, E85 or electric? I think that the Ethanol made with formely animal or human consumed crops is one of the biggest mistakes made by us recently. If you are doing that (using E85 made from those crops) you are not really helping the problem, I would contend you are making it worse.

How do electric / hybrid cars improve the situation? All they do is shift the emissions from the street to the power station! Maybe local air quality can be improved, but the overall level of pollution remains the same. Seems like a sham to me.

Am I missing something?

To cap it all I remember hearing ethanol producers themselves admitting that the emissions created as a consequence of ethanol use are no improvement over burning oil, as the current state of technology means significant amounts of carbon are emitted in the manufacturing process.

I can't believe how many ignorant people are still denying that human activities are the prime cause of Global Warming. It's astonishing that in the face of such fact they can turn their head and blame it on the sun.

Are they aware that if their theory was true then the sun would be in a period of increased solar activity right now, not decreased as it is? Continue to live in ignorance, driving your big SUV to work at Valero Oil. You have nothing to worry about, there's nothing we can do!!!!

[edit on 5/23/2008 by InterestedObserver]

have these people who deny global warming ever been to an asian country before where you can't ever see a blue sky since the atmosphere is filled with smog, dust and pollution.

I believe global warming is not happening at a constant rate but at a logarithmic scale

Yep 2007 was second hottest year and sun reached 11 year minimum cycle. Also la nina started. We were measuring +4 C above average temperatures until august. September was a bit colder after 13 months. Until the end of year we stayed in average.

climateprogress.org...

reply to post by InterestedObserver


Likewise, I could ask you a similar question. How is it that you are able to turn your head to evidence that many other planets in our solar system are experiencing a warming trend similar to that of the earth?

If "global warming" is the direct result of man, then how do you explain this solar-system wide warming trend?

[edit on 23-5-2008 by SystemiK]

[edit on 23-5-2008 by SystemiK]

reply to post by SystemiK


I think InterestedObserver put in a brave post against the flow. It seems to have encouraged others thinking along the same lines to join in, which might provide some balance.

SystemiK: the theory about the whole solar system warming seems to have gained widespread acceptance on ATS, judging by this thread. Is there really a strong case or might it be largely based on rumour and urban myth? (This is not a leading question - I'm genuinely interested.)

Please explain what pollution has to do with global warming? If anything the particulants shuld cause global cooling.

Yes, the changes are cyclical in nature and are dependant on the Sun. We are currently 18 months behind any solar activity which is extremely odd. Increased sunspot activity translates to milder/warmer temps.

reply to post by Locus Iste



It does look like a cooling trend, given that the original NASA data was WRONG!!!


www.norcalblogs.com...

reply to post by pityocamptes

Well i was writing about global temperatures not US ones.

Originally posted by pause4thought
SystemiK: the theory about the whole solar system warming seems to have gained widespread acceptance on ATS, judging by this thread. Is there really a strong case or might it be largely based on rumour and urban myth? (This is not a leading question - I'm genuinely interested.)

I tried to place these links into my earlier post but for some reason they would not appear in my edited post. These links are something I put together a couple of months ago for a friend, so they are just a bit dated...



New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change

The latest images could provide evidence that Jupiter is in the midst of a global change that can modify temperatures by as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit on different parts of the globe

Global Warming on Mars?

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists

In what is largely a reversal of an August announcement, astronomers today said Pluto is undergoing global warming in its thin atmosphere even as it moves farther from the Sun on its long, odd-shaped orbit.

Global Warming Detected on Triton

There may not be much industrial pollution on Neptune's largest moon, but things are hotting up nonetheless...

The Earth is not alone in suffering global warming. According to observations made by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and several ground-based instruments, temperatures on Neptune's largest moon have increased dramatically since the Voyager space probe swung by in 1989. So much so, in fact, that Triton's surface of frozen nitrogen is turning into gas, making its thin atmosphere denser by the day.

Associated Press: Study says sun getting hotter

WASHINGTON (AP) - The sun is getting hotter, adding heat to an Earth already thought to be warming from greenhouse gases.

Solar radiation reaching the Earth is 0.036 percent warmer than it was in 1986, when the current solar cycle was beginning, a researcher reports in a study to be published Friday in the journal Science. The finding is based on an analysis of satellites that measure the temperature of sunlight.

The increase is only a small fraction of the total heat from the sun, but in a century it would be enough to seriously aggravate problems of global warming thought to be caused by greenhouse gases, says Richard C. Willson of Columbia University's Center for Climate Systems Research.

The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame

The Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.

A study by Swiss and German scientists suggests that increasing radiation from the sun is responsible for recent global climate changes.

Dr Sami Solanki, the director of the renowned Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Gottingen, Germany, who led the research, said: "The Sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.

"The Sun is in a changed state. It is brighter than it was a few hundred years ago and this brightening started relatively recently - in the last 100 to 150 years."

This last link takes a look at global cooling based on a decline in sun activity.
Another take: The Sun Also Sets

Clearly, none of this is conclusive, but definitely something that needs to be taken into account and studied further. Given the amount of panic reaction that has been injected into the public psyche by the proponents of global warming, now might be a good time for everyone to take a deep breath and re-evaluate the situation based on current and developing data.

Edit to add external text


[edit on 23-5-2008 by SystemiK]

reply to post by pause4thought

Well 6 planets/moons out of 100 bodies in our solar system are warming. Uranus is cooling but all for different reasons. Sun's changes are to small to make a difference. On earth it can vary 0,1°C in 11 years.

reply to post by Locus Iste


Last year alone earths temp dropped pretty significant.

reply to post by Locus Iste


It sounds like we could do with some authoritative info on the state of the sun. It keeps coming up but different posters see it completely differently and are using it to support opposing positions!

On earth it can vary 0,1°C in 11 years.

Do you mean that is the natural course of events, historically speaking? I.e. are you using this information to help calibrate current climate change?

reply to post by pause4thought


it's the change it can vary in 11 years (sun cycle). So when sun activity is on minimum. Temperature should be 0,05C under average and when it's maximum activity 0,05C above average. Current trends of warming are far above average so sun can't be blamed.



[edit on 23-5-2008 by Locus Iste]

could all of this global wamring stuff be due to the fact that we are entering a very dramatic change in humanity and in space , in our solar system and in our galaxy. All the nibiru , global warming, 2012 talk is all some what connected..Thats the main reason we havent been told is because if they told us one thing, we'd figure out it's all connected.
There is probably nothing we can do about it. " global wamring" is kind of a pg rated version of the truth. IT has to do with our position in the galaxy or somthing I think.
This cycle has occured before and will again after us. The poles shifting is a very real thing that could happened.
Think about all the earthquakes and other natural disasters that seem to be more and more as the years go on .
LEts wait and see.. By this time next year we will understand a lot more about all this then we do now. and even more the year after that. We are being given the info but really slowly .
Things could be awesome or turn really ugly fast. or both......

reply to post by pityocamptes


Thanks for several informative posts.

Please explain what pollution has to do with global warming? If anything the particulants should cause global cooling.

Well, pollution is the generic term, and would include any pollutants that contribute to the greenhouse effect.

As to the particulates, unless I am mistaken they are very largely the result of lower-grade fuels such as diesel, yet there is a huge amount of higher-grade fuel in use.

Take the aviation industry, for a start.

For those of you who don't think the Sun can be the most important factor in climate, you have to realize that the Sun goes into minimum and maximum phases.




This is a little more complicated than the 11 year average cycle. I can't (or I am lazy) to find any graphs about the little ice age or the medieval warming periods that will fit and be easy to read, but any research will find that those periods were related to sun activity.



And If we look at how global climate in recent times relates to the sun.




The sun's fluctuations correspond with the warming of the 40's and the 90's along with the cooling in the 70's.




Compare the fluctuations of temperature to the steady increase of CO2. How come there was a cooling period in the 70's when carbon was increasing. If CO2 and man had an important influence, the rate of temperature increase would be steady.




The sun behavior has a HUGE influence on global climate. Even the Mt Pinatubo eruptions could hardly put a dent into the sun's effect. How can we as little humans have more influence on the earth than the giant nuclear reaction taking place in the sky? Take away the sun, the earth freezes very fast. Take away the humans and the earth keeps going along.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
I believe it is a SOLAR event.
The entire solar system is warming up, it is hotter everywhere that the sun shines.

What exactly do YOU PROPOSE that we, as small humans on this planet, do to stop the sun from having its solar event?

I could not agree more. Narrow-mindedness allows the thought that "somehow we have to" be involved with the changes. People think too highly of themselves.

temperatures are not rising where i live, in the desert. in the 90's (especially the early 90's) i was a roofer, and i can assure you it was MUCH hotter then than now. Two years ago we did have that snap of 112 straight days over 100, but overall it has been much more mild. Last year it didn't get above 100 until well into June.

I cannot speak for the world. but here in West Texas, the only thing we have noticed is that we need some rain. But that is nothing new.