why the hell are skeptics allowed to post here

THANK GOD FOR THE DEBUNKERS!!

If every bit of information on this site was taken as truth then we're just as bad as mainstream media. Everything you hear on the news is SUPPOSED to be taken as truth. Thats why we are here as members, because we question EVERYTHING!


example:

So, you promise universal healthcare?
Well, then you better show us your game plan and every detail on how its going to happen, or we simply won't believe you.... unlike the other 90% of people who are voting for you simply because you're a woman or a minority!

Originally posted by hikix
If every bit of information on this site was taken as truth then we're just as bad as mainstream media. Everything you hear on the news is SUPPOSED to be taken as truth. Thats why we are here as members, because we question EVERYTHING!

I think you hit the nail on the head here. As I said if we were all yes people there would be only a few topics with everybody saying "yes" after it. It is in our nature to question everything and here at ATS its exactly what we do in every thread.

I for one would much rather have to bring my "A" game and defend what I beleive in, than try to have a discource with 100 people who have the EXACT same opinion as myself. I for one will not learn anything more about the topic, nor will anybody else.

Originally posted by Nohup
We're not coming to mock a topic, we're coming to mock the idiots who throw out all basic reason and logic because...

Isn't that against the terms and conditions of this website?

You are free to knock a member's opinion, but you are not free to knock the member.

I would suggest that topics can be knocked at will, however, knocking members (or idiots) is a breach of the rules.

I think that you will find there are 2 main types of people here at ATS. The believers that have already come to the conclusion that these things are real, and the skeptics that want to believe, but have not yet found the truth they need.

The believers will post what they believe to be true and expect others to accept. They don't need evidence because they already believe.

The skeptics filter through all this information looking for one shred of evidence to confirm their assumptions. They need proof, they hunger for it. Its not that they don't want to believe, or why else would they be here?

Now it may seem as though the skeptics are attacking the believers, but its just them trying to find the truth to support what they want to be true. When you have a site as big as ATS, it can get frustrating trying to find evidence within all the stories and opinions.

Both types of people make ATS what it is. The moto 'Deny Ignorance' still stand today as it did years ago. Denying Ignorance should be the number one focus of every single member.

Now of course there are the odd few who don't fall into this category such as trolls, hoaxers and the like. If you come across one, report them to the mods, and they will be dealt with accordingly.

When ever you post, you should expect to have to defend what you believe, because never will every single person who reads that post accept it as fact.

ATS isn't and never will be a place for blind willingness to agree.

[edit on 22-5-2008 by Toasty]

reply to post by tezzajw



I think you know what they meant.


anyway... directing my attention back to the OP...Exactly what thread was it? Or at least what was it about?

Seeing that you just joined ATS (welcome by the way), you don't understand how much "crap" we see here. Just because your topic didn't get any attention doesn't neccessarily mean nobody was interested, it just may have made the rounds around here.

Before you post, use the search feature to see if your topic has been talked to death. You might learn a few things as well. I know I have.


[edit on 22-5-2008 by gauncents]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by gauncents]

reply to post by gauncents


I think tezz had it nailed. He knows exactly "what they meant." He pointed it out. He got lots of stars because many of us also know "what they meant." I'm actually sort of surprised because usually that poster is one of the more eloquent and reasonable skeptics.

More generally, the problem is that a previous poster said there are really 2 kinds of posters here: people who believe and people who want to believe.

I think there are also here people who do not believe and want others not to believe. Acting like sheep dogs, they see barking at the other members as part of their responsibility to keep lesser beings in line. And every so often, they slip up and forget their decorum. Tezz noticed. So did others of us.

There are still more types of people who post here. There are people who want to understand the nature of mythology. There are people looking for potentially reproducible physical phenomena to pursue outside the lab. There are people here to drop viral adds for movies. There are people here who need attention cults. There are priests who come here to save us from daemons. There are intelligence analysts curious about monitoring the fringe to prevent more Oklahoma City incidents. There are people who come here to re-enforce their taboos by putting other people down. There are people who come here to try to sell pictures of birds for thousands of dollars. There are people who come here to delve for material for their movie script. There are people who come here to spread new myths.There are people who come here because the word 'sex' appeared on a post and linked from Google. There are people who are here because they are drunk and think this is funny. There are people who come here because they like to fight. There are even people who come here because they have seen things that the rest of the world wants them to forget.

And finally, there is the first time poster with a story to tell. They often get ripped to pieces. They think the people here are just here to share. But in general, this is an agenda-driven site. Lots of agendas. A few major ones as have been categorized by others, but many many special cases. Best advice I can give to the original poster is that if you read a lot of threads here, you will get a sense for what you can know before posting, and be ready for the typical responses. At the end of the day, you will be asked questions. You can ignore the rude people (i have them on ignore) and focus on the people who try to be kind and still stick to rational thought. If you can put up with those questions, you will be embraced. If you think that these questions are unfair, you are probably in the wrong place.

[edit on 22-5-2008 by Ectoterrestrial]

reply to post by Ectoterrestrial



Busy times in the alien and ufo community when this is the topic of conversation anyway!

Good times, good times!


[edit on 22-5-2008 by gauncents]

If what you have to say is valid and you feel it is right then you should welcome the chance to discuss it with people who have an alternate point of view.
Granted they are required to state it respectfully.. but you cannot learn new things when you are never challenged.

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
..And finally, there is the first time poster with a story to tell. They often get ripped to pieces. They think the people here are just here to share. But in general, this is an agenda-driven site...

I agree with you there. A lot of first timers make the mistake that this is a (insert conspiracy topic here) site. Probably stumbling upon us from a Google search like 'UFO Conspiracy' or '911 truth'. They post as soon as they get here not understanding the community that awaits them. What they need to realize is that like the real world, people are going to scrutinize them here, no matter what they post.

I think a lot of them are expecting a place where people like them can escape the scrutiny that they would receive in real life. Fortunately though we are not that kind of place. Things aren't taken on face value here. That's why I keep coming back.

The biggest debunkers may be people from your own tent. I do not know if you have noticed, but UFO skeptics are currently winning by a huge margin in the court of public opinion. There are two ways UFO believers could turn things around in their favor. One, is that some highly visible UFO event occurs like a fleet of spaceships landing on the 50 yard line during the Superbowl. This is however unlikely.

The other way for the UFO believers to win in the court of public opinion is to put forth evidence that is highly credible. This means that UFO believers need to meticulously scrutinize to make sure it is genuine and that it skeptics cannot easily provide an alternative solution to the evidence..

This also means that UFO believers have to appear as if they are rational, credible, upstanding, and normal citizens. I am not saying that all UFO believers are irrational,unintelligent, or frauds but it appears to the average person that UFO believers are. It would behoove the sincere, reasonable, and intelligent UFO believers to quickly kick out from their tent people that are irrational, unintelligent, or frauds. Perhaps this is what the sincere and intelligent UFO believers are doing.

reply to post by elibubbles


You know you might just think of it this way. The closer you are to the truth the more people, the skeptics and dis info agent will attack....moan, and bash you. While I didn't read you original thread. Could you be on to something
Also, that is why there is the ignore button.
On the other side of the coin, " if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen"
Best of luck

Hi there~
1st i understand you so much! after you posted your topic, you wish to see a lot of replies.
but what i have learn from my location forums and HERE,
sharing experience is more importance, untill you really got something with the greatest prove for your Alien/UFO topic, then you can try to ask and ask ppl again....

Also, internet is for all ages group! so no matter how people Monkey you or not, skip that! you will feel more happy to share your things online!

There are so many "CD rom" readers but they wont write but only read!
They are watching!

CIA Agents, Debunkers and Skeptics, Oh My! ATS is quite the lions den, huh.

Lord have mercy. When I visit a site and I don't like it. I leave.
I will never 'get' people throwing fits and making a big fuss over a message board. And I certainly don't 'get' people who want to be on a forum (community) where every single person agrees. HOW BORING *yawn*

I am one of those "skeptics" that so many hate. The difference with me and you (the non skeptic) is that I am actually more open to finding the truth. I weigh ALL evidence provided on both sides of the fence. And then form my own opinion.

Since coming to ATS, I have been exposed to more people, more cultures, nationalities, more opinions, more views on various topics then I would have if I continued on in my own little world. And I cant forget those I have met and become close to.

If one can not see that ATS provides one the opportunity to EXPAND their world and LEARN from all types and all views, then maybe its best to stay away and continue living the current life one leads.

ATS, for you, IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT



[edit on 22-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Lord have mercy. When I visit a site and I don't like it. I leave.

That has got to be about the most intelligent and logical idea and advice and have read on this forum today!!!

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

It's kind of like walking in on a strangers house and bitching about how their furniture is arranged!

Originally posted by elibubbles
i know and its just that
this is a really sensitive website
ive only been on here a week
im not a newbie to the ufo community but i never see this kind of bashing or disagreement on other ufo websites
maybe its just because i dont look at the forums
i guess if youve open forums your just opening yourself up to criticism
whereas im used to conferences and interviews
oh well maybe its best i keep it that way to be honest
as anyone can write anything to bash anyone in a thread it means nothing

Well, it's not so much a ufo forum as a ufo debate forum (for that matter, any supernatural/conspiracy theory type thing debate) and it's not supposed to support either side, just allow disussion of it. It's not that you aren't welcome here, it's that you have to be ready to debat this with people who disagree with you.This might not be the right place for you if you don't like that kind of thing, but as long as you stay here, welcome.

If a 'truth' cannot stand up to any scrutiny. Then why is it worth believing?

Debunkers are why i love ATS. If something is proposed to ATS and comes out still standing after the debunkers have had their shot, then i know the proposed topic has some worth.

Skeptics keep the rest of us on our toes. Without them, we would never seek out the answers to their questions, thereby finding new answers of our own.

Originally posted by elibubbles
i know and its just that
this is a really sensitive website
ive only been on here a week
im not a newbie to the ufo community but i never see this kind of bashing or disagreement on other ufo websites
maybe its just because i dont look at the forums
i guess if youve open forums your just opening yourself up to criticism
whereas im used to conferences and interviews
oh well maybe its best i keep it that way to be honest
as anyone can write anything to bash anyone in a thread it means nothing

That's probably because on other websites ufology is treated like a religion more than a subject to challenge with reason and logical explanation before jumping to any facts or false claims about what it is.
If I told you that I saw an 8-legged dog yesterday night while walking in the meadows after sundown... wouldn't you challenge me? Atleast till I or someone had tangible irrefutable evidence in my hands that what I saw was real?
I would expect and hope you'd challenge me if I made that statement.

Ufology is not religion, or atleast it shouldn't be.... otherwise 2012 or 2029 will come true because people will start fighting over that instead of christianity, islam, catholisism, etc. etc. -.-

If u want to get some credibility on aliens, ufos, ghost and other parnormal phenominum you have to look at from a skeptic/scientific point of you. If you just believe everything you see and you hear then you have no credibility. You have to get evidence to studies do scientific studies. That is the only way to get people to watch or listen.

Originally posted by Toasty
I think that you will find there are 2 main types of people here at ATS. The believers that have already come to the conclusion that these things are real, and the skeptics that want to believe, but have not yet found the truth they need.

The believers will post what they believe to be true and expect others to accept. They don't need evidence because they already believe.

The skeptics filter through all this information looking for one shred of evidence to confirm their assumptions. They need proof, they hunger for it. Its not that they don't want to believe, or why else would they be here?...

I'd say that most of the UFO board is inhabited by 2 kinds of people: Those who seek the truth, and those that already made up their mind.

I'm here because I want to know what's behind the UFO phenomenon. I don't come here wanting to believe anything. We may discover that the UFO's are an amazing natural occurrence, or something else entirely. Extraterrestrial life forms? As plausible as any other at this point.

I am a skeptic, even though I've seen a UFO with my own eyes. There's just not enough info for me to assume that what I saw was an alien spacecraft. It was just a reflective, disc-shaped object. No "My alien son is a honor student from Vega U" bumper stickers to be found.
Skeptics are not bad people. We want the truth, that's the reason we can't just believe. If I did that I would get stuck in MY truth, leaving aside my pursuit for THE truth. We never assume anything, we go where the evidence leads us. Evidence that is quite lacking in the UFO field IMHO.

To the OP:
I've seen my share of rude comments from both sides, but they have been dealt with accordingly by the ATS staff. If you feel insulted in any way you only need to send a U2U to a mod. Stick around and you'll grow to love this board. As a bonus you'll develop a shiny, criticism-proof, ATS style rhino skin