What do a billion Muslims really think?

reply to post by BlackOps719


I hear you.
I've actually known plenty of Iranians and Arabs alike, many recent immigrants too from places like Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine and Afghanistan; there is a large community of them where I live in Australia and you'd be surprised how much they think and feel alike about everyday things we do.

A good majority are not devout Muslims at all, and could hardly be considered "conservative". They like to go out, party, watch movies, mix with men and women and even drink; it's not that they don't do these things in their home country, it's that their denied the right to or just looked down upon if they do.
They too have a big disdain for ultra-religious people, especially Muslims and don't see the point of coming to a free country like Australia and living so restrictively.

Essentially a lot of them try to break away from all the restrictions they experienced before and want to try things they were denied the right to before. Most of them greatly cherish the freedom they have here in Australia and many see no reason to return back to their countries of origin currently while they are governed by "restrictive" regimes.
Many of them are also highly educated and successful and make more in a year than most regular Aussies dream of doing.

The more I get to know them the more I see in the end the cultural differences are little more than skin-deep; not much of this stuff is "ingrained" in them and there is little they cannot accept or understand about Australia or Western people.
Their political views vary but in the end they feel the world needs to kind of "back off" and give Muslims some breathing space. Many of them denounce the governments of the nations they come from and consider them like dictators essentially.
They dislike all these stereotypes and negative media attention because it's not founded to them and I say I have to agree. Even though it may seem there is a big, moderately conservative part of Islam that is incompatible with the West; they're being blown out of proportion, equated to 14th Century savages or something.

They're hardly "conservative" at all and a majority of their lifestyle and values they hold are remarkably similiar to ours.

These ignorant folk you see going off on rants throughout the boards obviously don't get out of their mother's basement much or just don't mix with different people and have never traveled. Thus their perceptions and deductions about Muslims and their way of life is formed from propaganda outlets like the news media, what they here from their equally biased and ignorant friends, and the rest is their imagination really.

If they took the time to actually speak to and meet many Muslims, they would see these people are hardly worth being designated such a vigorous threat to Western Society in the 21st Century.

Progress and Unification!!! Please give me a break! first of all, we are very apocalyptics, in a way of speaking...It's for sure that will be a conflict which will see USA and other countries fighting against a sort of coalition made principally by muslim countries. The cause ...economic, politics...you named. But what is for sure is that the real cause will be, whithout any doubt religion. But what i really think is that that " il fine principe" or the main reason is "who will control the world" ...it's sad but true that religion, expecially in the muslim world is a way of controling people ( talebans in Afganistan were a clear example). A clash is inevitable

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Are you guys aware of what is going on in Europe?

So you have some Muslim drinking buddies, that's nice, me too. All in all, Muslims for the most part get along well in the U.S.. Just out of curiosity, have you ever dated any Muslim women, or do any of the guys you know date any Muslim women, being that you all hang out together? How about the Muslim guys, do they date western women? AT the end of the day do you ever think you could wind up being hitched to a Muslim girl, cause that is how friends tend to go?

reply to post by poet1b

Just out of curiosity, have you ever dated any Muslim women, or do any of the guys you know date any Muslim women, being that you all hang out together? How about the Muslim guys, do they date western women?

Nope haven't dated one but I have a few who are close friends, I'm sure it's not outside the realm of possibility I could have a good relationship with a Muslim women.

And yes, Muslim guys do date outside their religion. Another common misperception.
It's even stated in the Quran, Muslims are entitled to marry other "People of the Book" so that includes Christians and Jews too. www.usc.edu...

One good friend of mine is getting married to a Muslim from Morocco, and she says shes never found a more perfect guy than him, for me that's enough proof that Muslims and non-Muslims are perfectly compatible both culturally and socially too.

You seriously just need to broaden your horizons a tad, if you took some time off from raving and ranting your frustrations here and interacted with Muslims in real life you would see what I'm talking about.

Are you guys aware of what is going on in Europe?

Yes I am aware of France's widespread alienation of Muslims, the racial tensions in the Netherlands, 50% of Germany's population being Muslim and foreign born but I'm not sure how that relates here or... What YOUR POINT IS?

I'm talking about Australia. Here I see Muslims and non-Muslims getting along just fine, as just for your information I have traveled across Europe too, it's hardly the "Cultural warzone" everyone is making it out to be.
Sure there's conflicting opinions and beliefs but I don't think there's reason to panic and go paranoid about it just yet.

[edit on 20/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

My horizons are plenty broad, I'm just not dizzy from the altitude like some people.

Yeah, my observations are the same, Muslim guys are out there dating, but not the women. While the boys are free to roam, the girls are kept under lock and key. Of course the guys are are friendly, they want to get laid. Good luck on getting one of them to introduce you to a Muslim woman, cause it won't happen in a million years. It is a raw deal, wake up and smell the coffee. Yeah, those Muslim guys will to be great while they are dating, he has a virgin that he plans on marrying or as a back up, or else, once married, he will change vastly. What is she going to do if they break up and he wisks the kids of to a Muslim country?

reply to post by Rasobasi420


I dont believe ATS, is a credible source for the opinions of a majority muslim. No survey is, each individual us different. Like ATS can not represent accurately the view of any religion or race.

reply to post by Rasobasi420

No it doesn't. It's a stupid little chart. Like I said they claim this, but why isn't it happening? An internet chart hardly means it will happen. Like I said they seem to be all for them voting and working. What about their freedom to express themselves? What about their free speech? I see nothing there that indicates they want to bring the women out of the stone ages. I'm just sayin'...

reply to post by q_ball

So are you muslim?

Also I worked with a girl one time who was islamic. I think she was more of a Farrakhan islamic. The girl was a real nut job! It would take too long to type out all of the scenerios but the words anit-social and psychotic come to mind. No joke, look up the definitions. That being said she's not my "go by" when it comes to the mind, thought and, personality of Muslims.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


I cannot speak for a million Muslims, but I live in England in a town with a large Muslim community. Many don't believe the official story. Some, like me and not a Muslim, believe it was an "inside job" carried out by elements of the US administration and military/intelligence community.

reply to post by BlackOps719
I think Iran is a more liberal country. I believe it's more Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and, Sudan that are the oppressive countries.

I know some people from Iran and they pretty much fit what you stated. They are very westernized over there.

Originally posted by Lone Star Patriot

 

I think Iran is a more liberal country. I believe it's more Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and, Sudan that are the oppressive countries.

Most of the Pakistani are liberal it's not correct impression that we are being oppressed or oppressive country... We have too much Media and Social Liberty and only a few groups of people are extremists and those mostly live in mountainous area along with the border of afghanistan... here you can find more in this thread The Pakistan You Do not Watch on TV

[edit on 20-5-2008 by LOYAL]

Originally posted by Lone Star Patriot
I think Iran is a more liberal country. I believe it's more Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and, Sudan that are the oppressive countries.

Women's rights in Iraq were guaranteed equal prior to the fall of Saddam actually.

Historically, Iraqi women and girls have enjoyed relatively more rights than many of their counterparts in the Middle East. The Iraqi Provisional Constitution (drafted in 1970) formally guaranteed equal rights to women and other laws specifically ensured their right to vote, attend school, run for political office, and own property. Yet, since the 1991 Gulf War, the position of women within Iraqi society has deteriorated rapidly. Women and girls were disproportionately affected by the economic consequences of the U.N. sanctions, and lacked access to food, health care, and education. These effects were compounded by changes in the law that restricted women's mobility and access to the formal sector in an effort to ensure jobs to men and appease conservative religious and tribal groups.

www.hrw.org...

This is actually a very interesting article describing the role of Iraqi women historically.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Women's rights in Iraq were guaranteed equal prior to the fall of Saddam actually.

yep, equal rights to be gassed, imprisoned, tortured and executed.

The best you can say about Saddam is he never let extreme Islamism dominate his rule, and maintained "law and order" (much the same way as Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin maintained "order".............)

Sad the mainstream media does't cover this as much as they do the training camps for terrorists. "The information age" indeed, too bad it is so manipulated

Does it matter what they think because 1billion live under national rules that persecute non believers or leavers of faith of that religion with the fact women are treated differently too and people not open to other cultural diversity. Many rights are taken away and exposure to the freedoms of Democracy is like a crime. Even though the truth is that many would like to get out of Islam, 1billion still live under it no matter what they think and do.

I have made the argument before on ATS that "terrorism" is a very subjective term. I even go as far to make the assertion that our beloved United States of America was founded by terrorists. We of course all call them patriots, but if we could have asked English citizens at the time they would all have called us terrorists (extremists). We are taught from a young age about the Boston Tea Party, Tar-and-feathering tax collectors, persecuting loyalists - All terrorist activities.

I served my country in the military and I am as patriotic as the next person, but I feel that my education and life experiences have allowed to view things from an objective viewpoint, and looked at objectively I can understand the "terrorist" viewpoint (Although I don't agree with it). Understanding the cause of terrorism is the only way to end it.

America has always meddled in foreign affairs to further our own greedy imperialistic ambitions. We preach democracy, but only democracy that serves our interests. It is easy to see why we are the worlds most hated country. I would not go so far as to preach isolationism, but I would feel better being closer to the isolationistic end of the spectrum versus the imperialistic end.



[edit on 20-5-2008 by The Oak]

Originally posted by The Oak
I have made the argument before on ATS that "terrorism" is a very subjective term. I even go as far to make the assertion that our beloved United States of America was founded by terrorists. We of course all call them patriots, but if we could have asked English citizens at the time they would all have called us terrorists (extremists). We are taught from a young age about the Boston Tea Party, Tar-and-feathering tax collectors, persecuting loyalists - All terrorist activities.

I served my country in the military and I am as patriotic as the next person, but I feel that my education and life experiences have allowed to view things from an objective viewpoint, and looked at objectively I can understand the "terrorist" viewpoint (Although I don't agree with it). Understanding the cause of terrorism is the only way to end it.

America has always meddled in foreign affairs to further our own greedy imperialistic ambitions. We preach democracy, but only democracy that serves our interests. It is easy to see why we are the worlds most hated country. I would go so far as to preach isolationism, but I would feel better being closer to the isolationistic end of the spectrum versus the imperialistic end.

well, if in several hundred years, our children are taught to look on 9-11 fondly and all the islamist attacks are heroic battles, then I despair, for our descendents will be living in a global islamist caphilate............

Truth is when ever a nation becomes united and established like America and then another group try and change it, it becomes a War zone, it could be an imposed War on people or a defending War on people or a Libertion War or a Civil war. Not all wars are bad and some need liberation and some Civil in which the egg in the nest of another country is outgrowing it self. That is what people fear about Muslim, once they outgrow and keep demanding indepenced due to the fact democracy is not their thing they will throw out and divide the host nation. The Romans are an example and so are every other nation that tried to rule Israel, history repeats.
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Does it matter what they think because 1billion live under national rules that persecute non believers or leavers of faith of that religion with the fact women are treated differently too and people not open to other cultural diversity. Many rights are taken away and exposure to the freedoms of Democracy is like a crime. Even though the truth is that many would like to get out of Islam, 1billion still live under it no matter what they think and do.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord


Well then it doesn't matter what you think does it because you also live under a fascist, oppressive regime which is slowly eroding your own liberties and freedoms.

reply to post by The Oak


What complete and total malarkey, you are clueless. The U.S. soldiers who fought the revolutionary war declared war against the greatest power in the world at the time, and they fought them toe to toe like men. They didn't hide behind their womens skirts like these Muslim terrorists do. They didn't indiscriminately bomb market places randomly killing women and children like these low life Muslim terrorists do. Our forefathers went toe to toe with the best army in the world, and won.

I would say more about how disgusting your statements are, but I would like to see this post stay on the board.