What do a billion Muslims really think?

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Who cares what a billion muslims think. As a Christian American we are at war with muslims. I don't care what they think. All of the ones in America should be shipped back over seas or at least quarrantined.

HERE HERE!!

While we're at it, lets get rid of all the darkies too. Might as well include Jews and Hindus. You know what? lets just take anyone who isn't willing to burn a cross and wear a white hood and fry 'em like the dogs they are.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Well, its strictly a national security issue now. Apparently, according to some, Muslims just aren't ready for the 21st century, they can't leave things like honor killings in the past, or respect free speech.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Rasobasi420

 

Well, its strictly a national security issue now. Apparently, according to some, Muslims just aren't ready for the 21st century, they can't leave things like honor killings in the past, or respect free speech.

Well speaking to the national security issue, isn't it true that you have had more disillusioned white kids shooting up malls and schools than you have had honor killings?

reply to post by Rook1545


I would say the numbers are pretty close, probably not as many school campus shootings as honor killings. Both are pretty serious social problems that need to be dealt with. I would say these campus shooting incidents are a clear indicator of some of the problems we are facing in dealing with the social changes brought about by the modern world. Two fairly different issues, yet both have some parallels.

reply to post by poet1b

You are on here trying to stand up for Muslims, when what you have now said, is that Western nations should not allow Muslims into their communities until they prove they can adapt to modern civilization.

Ok time to find Wally kids!!
Where is this mysterious quote you mention here?

When did I ever say Muslims should not be allowed to integrate into Western society?
When did I ever say they can't?

Your missing my point over and over again. The West seems to have this inane insensitivity ingrained into it's culture where it can't understand why some people act like they do. No instead their quick to condemn cultures and religions they have no clue about and FORCE them to conform to accept Western behavioural and cultural standards without any other desire apart from this "Elitist Moral Standing".

Because they live in the West they feel they're so much more educated and civilised they have the right to judge other people's ways of life, as you yourself are doing right now.

Well here's a friggin' Flash for you, true civilisation started in the Middle East, not the West, the Middle East was at a time the cultural, social and educational highpoint of the world. Without the Middle East and the various cultures that have flourished there throughout history we would be in the Dark Ages as far as "civilisation" is concerned.

Just because they may live "uncivilized" to you does not mean they don't have a concept of morality or right and wrong, and cannot integrate into other civilisations, it's that they

Oh, I understand why they do the things they do, it isn't all that hard to understand. What I don't understand is why you want to pretend there is nothing wrong with these barbaric practices.

Translation:"Oh I understand but, THEIR MANIACS!!!!! AAAAHHHHHH!"

No you don't understand, if you understood why people in the Middle East have become products of their history and environment then maybe you would stop advocating all this Republican nonsense you do: Bomb Iran, Deport Muslims, Deny Rights, etc...

Instead as I said before, your very superficial. You don't bother to look past the skin, and all you see is "Barbaric Acts".

That's what I see too when I look at the US, Barbarism. Spilling innocent blood, invading nations for sheer greed, slowly developing this near-Fascist Government who treats its citizens and the constitution like doormats.
The world's highest rate of homicides, and here your scrutinising Muslims so much?
Why?

Be that as it may, while I find America's politics and history particularly reprehensible by my own standards, I can understand why the US is like this. After all: "Absolute power corrupts", being at the top of the world for over 60 years and then suddenly facing this new reality of defiance and less influence came as a shock to the US, and it's somehow trying to reassert that dominance that made you once so warm and safe and cozy, but in doing so, it's stepping over a fine line between hegemony and Imperialism.

You on the other hand see this: Strange looking folks in far away lands you know little about, you know their different, they live surrounded by violence and their religion you find morally ambiguous, loaded with things that violate your concepts of morality.

And that's as far as you bother to go, so in essence all you can come up with is "Their Barbaric", "they need to change", "denounce them", etc... Without a clue as to why your behaving like this.

You rush to assumptions and are quick to judge people, but then when it comes to your own backyard, you fail to even see anything wrong. ???

I don't get this double standard, so your just immune to America's faults and bullsh*t but ever so quick to pick up everyone else's wrongs?

Personally, I am tired of the U.S. sending troops all over the world to protect International Corporations. I have said this many times, but I guess your weren't paying attention, you were too busy writing propaganda nonsense.

Funny that, what was all that invade Iran stuff you used to post a few weeks ago?

I too am sick of America commencing wars to please it's Industrial and Business Puppetmasters.

In the meantime, in the name of national security and the general welfare, I think our government, the U.S. government, has a responsibility to prevent people from immigrating to the U.S. if they feel they have the right to kill people whose opinions disagree with their own. I would say the same is true for all nations.

Fine. Go ahead. Set up 60ft walls round the US.

But know this, when you begin to restrict these kinds of freedoms and liberties that make America "different" from the rest of the world, your government will keep pushing the envelope.

When you restrict immigration to "undesirables", maybe they'll decide to intern such people all ready living here, and these kinds of actions quickly spiral out of control into near-Fascism.
I'm sure you've seen and heard how civil liberties can be infringed and taken away quite readily at a moment's notice.
That's the problem with such Draconian authority and measures...

Where does it end? You start down the restrictive Immigration path and where does it end?
Do you restrict what people can read, and watch? Do you restrict the right to worship to? Restrict people from dissenting?

It may seem like a reasonable enough idea but think it through, denying immigration is just that inch closer to Fascism, and we all know when you give the government an inch they take a MILE.

That would be a sad day for America when it stops certain people from entering it's country simply on the basis of religion.
These kind of things have a nasty habit of turning into parts of bigger umbrella policies.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


That is one long rant. Yeah, I get it, you hate the U.S.. Everyone gets it. Your bias is your problem.

I never said we should invade Iran, I said we should never let Iran develop nuclear bombs. Go back in the thread, and watch how you have unraveled. Your statements about Muslims having ancient cultural norms that can't be expected o be changed states just what I have pointed out. You are the one with the bias.

reply to post by poet1b


In other words you give up. Okay.
Now for the collective love of Jesus, Muhammed, Abraham and Vishnu let this thread die please.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Yeah, I am tired of beating a dead horse. You can bite my legs off when I come back to cross the bridge to go home, oh black knight.

Why do I always see the same people, poet, christian voice, etc etc in these kind of threads, getting worked up and spreading hatred.

Chill out already lol, relax. Try to enjoy life. PEACE!

reply to post by Rasobasi420
your right because we don't know what they think, we only hear what the media gives us and thats prob 55 percent false. so yeah what the muslims think may surprise you.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


because they are what the bible calls wannabe christians they say they are christians but they're not! they just wear a mask to be accepted, I know from experince about fake christians for example. i was in foster homes for a portion of my life moving from family to family many called themself christians went to church prayed to god but somehow could find it in their hearts to let me sleep on hard floors with no blankets while their own kids were warm in there beds, i've had them tell me i'm worthless my parents didn't want me yadi yadi ya i was always the last to eat i even had foster parents tell their own kids try to beat me up the day i arrived to live in their home whichs is how they always put it, THEIR HOME and this happened by more than one church going foster familys i lived with. Plus everybody now a days trys to say their a christian like its a fad even more so the people you see on tv trying to make themselves look better. relgion is going down the tubes theres to many unanswered questions and the bible is unreliable. my opinion is to look somewhere else for your guidance.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Same reason you always show up here right on clue to deliver a subtle personal attack.

The thing that bothers me is that I was starting to have a decent discussion with others here where both sides were admitting the mistake and problems with their own sides, and then you regulars show up to disrupt the conversation. How convenient.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Same reason you always show up here right on clue to deliver a subtle personal attack.

The thing that bothers me is that I was starting to have a decent discussion with others here where both sides were admitting the mistake and problems with their own sides, and then you regulars show up to disrupt the conversation. How convenient.

Well that's odd, that was my first post in this thread. I didn't disrupt anything, because obviously you were already involved in this disruption.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Rasobasi420

 

Well, its strictly a national security issue now. Apparently, according to some, Muslims just aren't ready for the 21st century, they can't leave things like honor killings in the past, or respect free speech.

I don't think Honor Killings are as common as you think they are. And, since they span multiple religions and aren't limited to Islam it isn't necessary to discuss in this thread in particular.

And, since the subject of honor killings wasn't brought up in the initial post, or in the survey, it doesn't seem relevant to the topic.

As for that last little bit on free speech, that is covered in the survey, and it says the vast majority of Islam is pro free speech.

Originally posted by Lone Star PatriotHumm I didn't realize that all Americans are Cherokee, Sue, Creek, Comanche... (and so on.) I thought some were comprised of Irish, Italian, German... (so on) heritage. Cool we're all Indians!!

What I mean to say it is a very supremacist stance and ultimately impossible to pin down- does someone with part "indian" blood be called "Part native", how does one square it.

So legitimately, I, as white european living in Northern Ireland can use the term "native" as a trump card over every non white person living here?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

I don't think Honor Killings are as common as you think they are. And, since they span multiple religions and aren't limited to Islam it isn't necessary to discuss in this thread in particular.

And, since the subject of honor killings wasn't brought up in the initial post, or in the survey, it doesn't seem relevant to the topic.

As for that last little bit on free speech, that is covered in the survey, and it says the vast majority of Islam is pro free speech.

in the UK example, the overwhelming majority of cases are related to Islam, particularly from the Bangladeshi, Pakistani immigrants

Originally posted by Rook1545


Well, its strictly a national security issue now. Apparently, according to some, Muslims just aren't ready for the 21st century, they can't leave things like honor killings in the past, or respect free speech.

Well speaking to the national security issue, isn't it true that you have had more disillusioned white kids shooting up malls and schools than you have had honor killings?

why mention race, most Americans are white so clearly most spree killers are probably white, mind you, what about that recent campus killer from Korea, is his crime less because of his non white status?

Originally posted by blueorder
[why mention race, most Americans are white so clearly most spree killers are probably white, mind you, what about that recent campus killer from Korea, is his crime less because of his non white status?

I brought it up for the exact reason you mentioned. Spree killers are white. If it can be said that the people that commit honor killings have no place in the 21st century, then surely the same can be said for your average white kid that goes and shoots up a school. I am not advocating honor killings, they are a disgusting practice, but no less disgusting is the disillusioned white kid that decides to take out several of his classmates and teachers before going down in a "blaze of glory".

reply to post by blueorder


Thanks Blueorder. From what I can find, there are an average of 12 honor killings every year in the UK, out of an average of 737 murders per year. That's less than 2%. And the Muslim population in the UK is 1.6 million. That means that less than .001% of Muslims are the victim of honor killings in the UK.

This also falls well into the range of the 7% described in the article as being sympathetic to the extremist view.

It seems to me that the numbers are blown way out of proportion to fire up some hatred between the religions.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
reply to post by blueorder

 

Thanks Blueorder. From what I can find, there are an average of 12 honor killings every year in the UK, out of an average of 737 murders per year. That's less than 2%. And the Muslim population in the UK is 1.6 million. That means that less than .001% of Muslims are the victim of honor killings in the UK.

This also falls well into the range of the 7% described in the article as being sympathetic to the extremist view.

It seems to me that the numbers are blown way out of proportion to fire up some hatred between the religions.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by Rasobasi420]

The "official" figures are widely reported to be vastly under the real figure- the problem with many of these immigrant, and recent immigrant communities, particularly from Bangladesh and Pakistan, is that they are highly insulated, many of them cannot speak English, there is a fear of touting on their "own" and women are often treated no better than serfs

www.independent.co.uk...


I dont buy into your comment that it is reported to stoke the flames of hatred between religions- the liberal orthodoxy and the chattering classes in the UK (who populate the media, government councils etc) are some of the most debate surpressing people you could imagine and fear the term "racism" and "islamophobe" at every turn. Reporting it should be a badge of honour to these journalists who are the voice of so many voiceless women in those communities

It isnt JUST an anti islamic thing, as the media highlights violence against women in general, however, there is a distinct problem within many of these communities- to surpress such debate is to let down so many women