Cuba Denounces new and cowardly action by the U.S. government

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by johnsky

There's you're problem... you don't think.

You're right.

Point proven.


Any good scholar knows that information presented to them in the form of a fact is rarely a fact at all, and usually has a bias applied to it.

You can "know" all you want. In essence, all you're doing is blindly believing what your masters are telling you.

... last I checked, that didn't turn out too well for the Communists either, or the fascists.


I'm no supporter of Communism myself. But calling an entire civilian population the "enemy" just because they are being oppressed by a communist government... sounds pretty stupid.


Go read a history book. Realize what it is you are turning yourself into.
I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with freedom, and everything to do with eliminating it.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by johnsky]

Originally posted by Rapacity
America is the blue-eyed, chosen angel that must annihilate all ways of being other than its. Ah, no, wait a minute, there is no way but the American way

No, you are reading what you want to see.

but your stance has remained constant throughout

And being consistant is a bad thing? Since when?

you refuse to hear anything anyone has written that contradicts your learned/perceived thoughts about Cuba, Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, the difference between an ideology and the administrator who implements his brand of it, and the difference between the people of a nation, its administration and its way of living. You have shown yourself to be deaf (I hope you're not mentally blind as well).

Got it.....because I have a different view and am not revising history, somehow I am the deaf one. This just shows how you are close-minded.

From the way you have purported to represent America you have done it a dis-service for you have demonstrated an unlearning, unforgiving national character.

I am supposed to change the truth and my views because others don't know history or are trying to revise history? Why don't you go to the library and pick up a few history books and learn for yourself instead of relying on people who have been brainwashed by the extreme liberal agenda and have a warped view of actual history.

BTW, my view which is actual fact is the way most Americans view Cuba.

Please remember that many of us come to ATS to learn, spread knowledge and discern truth from falsity. You don't seem to be teaching but attempting to brainwash by re-iterating the same argument of the "USA way is the only way."

I have never said "USA way is the only way."
I am telling you actual history and you don't seem to want to hear it. I see....because you believe revisionist history of others, someone they are teaching and I am not. Again, you prove that you are already biased and don't want to hear the actual truth.

And, I'm sorry to tell you this but the USA way is about to change to a more socialist way by process of capitalism's evolution (read my previous post).

Boy, are you incorrect again.
What's going on now is not a process of capitalism evolution, it is actually a plan by hidden communist and marxist within the U.S. called extreme liberals. They want to change American from the Capitalist society which has made America such a great and powerful country to a socialist/facist society in which the government controls everyone from cradle to crave.
But American has been through tough times before and has always come out of it stronger and same will happen again. America was heading in the same direction before Reagan and finally Americans had enough and changed direction hence electing Reagan. The same will happen again.

Originally posted by johnsky
You can "know" all you want. In essence, all you're doing is blindly believing what your masters are telling you.

Sorry, but I do my own research. Perhaps you should do the same instead of spewing the same old liberal talking points.

But calling an entire civilian population the "enemy" just because they are being oppressed by a communist government... sounds pretty stupid.

Apparently you are not reading because of course we are talking about the ideologies of governments and not the oppressed people. Please quote me where I said I am talking about the oppressed civilians. Are you purposefully not reading posts, not comprehending or intentionally trying to be misleading?

Go read a history book.

Wow, I was just about to say the same to you.
I have read tons of history books, have you?

[edit on 20-5-2008 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Sorry, but I do my own research. Perhaps you should do the same instead of spewing the same old liberal talking points.

I'm not a liberal.
But the fact that you assume I am because I disagree with you shows you're level of political comprehension.

Apparently you are not reading because of course we are talking about the ideologies of governments and not the oppressed people.

You do know what a communist nation is, don't you?

If you fight a communist nation, it's not the government you fight, it's the people.

You stated they should be treated like the communist enemy they are... if you look into what you are proposing, you are talking about killing the people of the nation.
Remember, military servitude is not an option, it's mandatory there. In the event of invasion, the majority of the nation becomes the fighting force.

I have read tons of history books, have you?

Yes, but I pay attention to those paragraphs that exist outside the pictures. You should try it.

reply to post by WhatTheory


I have some very old encyclopaedia (pre-1969), I will have a flick through them to check Cuba's history with the USA and to get an idea for the old stance. It would be nice if I could find the ones I have prior to the revolution. I'm not saying I will look today but shortly.

Being consistent can also be the sign of an AI bot - prove me wrong - can you develop a proof for a concept?

Also, consistency is a sign of integrity hence I signed my last post with "Respect."

And I revise my assertion you believe the "USA way is the only way." You believe your way is the only way. I suggest you take a look at my signature - we're pretty similar in that respect (only, I created Appropriatarianism through observation of nature and through my own experience. There is more to it than my signature allows me to write but it expresses a much nobler way of life than you might think.

Also, Capitalism will always end in Communism. It is the natural progression of it. The Communists skipped over Capitalism as a way of missing out a few years and getting straight to the point (no messing about with these kids). Unfortunately, they didn't account for lessons having to be learned through the experiment of Capitalism (much like we are also learning with our experiment in democracy - we have to tweak things every once in a while). I expect the real problem the USA has with communism isn't communism itself but the threat of something else (I will further analyse this idea to get the truth of it)

I would love to hear about living life in Cuba from Cuban's reading this thread: what is a typical day in Cuba like?

Originally posted by johnsky
I'm not a liberal.

Sure you're not.

But the fact that you assume I am because I disagree with you shows you're level of political comprehension.

Oh, it's not because you disagree with me. I have seen enough of your posts on other threads regarding numerous different topics to know where you fall on the political spectrum.

If you fight a communist nation, it's not the government you fight, it's the people.

Ok, so am I supposed to let them roll over me and defeat me because people might get killed? Is this what you are saying?
Sorry, but your argument holds no water.

pay attention to those paragraphs that exist outside the pictures. You should try it.

Why? The pictures are so pretty.
Is that the best you got?

Originally posted by Rapacity
Also, Capitalism will always end in Communism.

Ok, now that is just ludicrous. It sounds more like wishful thinking.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Rapacity
Also, Capitalism will always end in Communism.

Ok, now that is just ludicrous. It sounds more like wishful thinking.

Would you agree that Capitalism is defined by economic freedom? Please, think about that statement before you answer.

Read this definition of economic freedom:

[exEconomic freedom is freedom to produce, trade and consume any goods and services acquired without the use of force, fraud or theft. Economic freedom is embodied in the rule of law, property rights and freedom of contract, and characterized by external and internal openness of the markets, the protection of property rights and freedom of economic initiative.[1][2]. In the present the concept, as it is most used, is usually associated with a free market system. Many rankings try to measure it, such as the Index of Economic Freedom. Empirical studies have found that, among other beneficial effects, economic freedom promotes economic growth and poverty reduction.[3][4]

Read more here.

Make sure you understand the above.

Now read this excerpt from a different article about Capitalism:

Some problems said to be associated with capitalism include: unfair and inefficient distribution of wealth and power; a tendency toward market monopoly or oligopoly (and government by oligarchy); imperialism and various forms of economic and cultural exploitation; and phenomena such as social alienation, inequality, unemployment, and economic instability. Critics have maintained that there is an inherent tendency towards oligolopolistic structures when laissez-faire is combined with capitalist private property. Because of this tendency either laissez-faire, or private property, or both, have drawn fire from critics who believe an essential aspect of economic freedom is the extension of the freedom to have meaningful decision-making control over productive resources to everyone. Economist Branko Horvat explains, "it is now well known that capitalist development leads to the concentration of capital, employment and power. It is somewhat less known that it leads to the almost complete destruction of economic freedom."[62]

To read more see here.

Did you notice the part that said ".."it is now well known that capitalist development leads to the concentration of capital, employment and power. It is somewhat less known that it leads to the almost complete destruction of economic freedom.""

That is a diplomatic way of saying that one entity will own and control money, people and their administration i.e a total monopoly.

Tell me, what is Communism if it isn't a state monopoly?

Also from that same article, here is another extract which might interest you:

Near the start of the 20th century, Vladimir Lenin claimed that state use of military power to defend capitalist interests abroad was an inevitable corollary of monopoly capitalism.[63] This concept of political economy concerning the relationship between economic and political power among and within states includes critics of capitalism who assign to it responsibility for not only economic exploitation, but imperialist, colonialist and counter-revolutionary wars, repressions of workers and trade unionists, genocides, massacres, and so on.

Notice the term "monopoly capitalism"? Notice any similarities between its description and the USA? Notice any parallels between that description and the USA's relationship with Cuba?

[edit on 20/5/08 by Rapacity]

reply to post by WhatTheory


Here's another bit of history for you: The USA had a bee in its bonnet about Cuba before Cuba became a communist nation, viz

Cuba's proximity to the U.S. has been a powerful influence on its history. Throughout the 19th century, Southern politicians in the U.S. plotted the island's annexation as a means of strengthening the pro-slavery forces in the U.S., and there was usually a party in Cuba which supported such a policy. In 1848, a pro-annexation rebellion was defeated and there were several attempts by annexation forces to invade the island from Florida. There were also regular proposals in the U.S. to buy Cuba from Spain. During the summer of 1848, President James K. Polk quietly authorized his ambassador to Spain, Romulus Mitchell Saunders, to negotiate the purchase of Cuba and offer Spain up to $100 million. While an astonishing sum at the time for one territory, trade in sugar and molasses from Cuba exceeded $18,000,000 in 1838 alone.[16] Spain, however, refused to consider ceding one of its last possessions in the Americas.

See the full article here.

It seems you've been taught only one part of the USA's history with Cuba - the part your government wanted you to know.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

But the fact that you assume I am because I disagree with you shows you're level of political comprehension.

Oh, it's not because you disagree with me. I have seen enough of your posts on other threads regarding numerous different topics to know where you fall on the political spectrum.

I'd love to hear what you think my political views are sometime. But this isn't the place, it would be off topic.
I can guarantee you, you've got my motives wrong.

If you fight a communist nation, it's not the government you fight, it's the people.

Ok, so am I supposed to let them roll over me and defeat me because people might get killed? Is this what you are saying?
Sorry, but your argument holds no water.

Sure it does.
Especially when they aren't trying to "roll over you and defeat you" in the first place.

Last I checked, China wasn't attacking the US... in fact, last I checked they were on trading terms selling rather low quality goods to you for incredibly low prices.

Feel free to prove me wrong.


Oh, and by the way, waging war with China... not a good idea. Considering where the majority of your goods and clothing comes from.
Whether you like it or not... the US is surviving as a consumer nation mostly because of China. Without them... there really isn't much to consume.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Umm.....yes, that's right, so what point are you trying to make?

Don't you realize communism equals untrustworthy and all the other bad things associated with it? Thanks duuude!

Communism equals untrustworty, umm I previousely advised you to re-examine the way you think, you haven't done it yet duuude. Would you agree if I say aaaaaaa Capetalism equals untrustworthy?? Capetalism is a system, Communism is a system, didn't you know that?? OHHH GOD, I have to talk to you like I do to my little brother. How in gods name can Communism equals untrutworthy?? I guess the media does effect people's brains, I should create a thread about the media and how it effects people like you.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
And not a very good answer either.

OHHH GOD not avery good answer?? How is it not a good answer?? I never believed in reality tunnels which philosophers always talked about, I do now.

That would be incorrect. So you are saying that because Castro did not use chemical weapons on his own people that he was not just as ruthless nor a tyrant.
Besides, it makes no sense to even compare the two especially since Cuba is next door and Iraq was not a communist country. Your analogy makes no sense duuude.

Jesus Christ, Yes Castro is not as ruthless nor as tyrant as Saddam, Jesus Christ, what the hell is wrong with your brain.

Sooooooooooo according to you, if a dictator who kills it's own people is much better than a dictator who loves it's people and who spends all the money for the sake of it's people?? I don't get it.

"The war in Iraq is not the only war that the Bush Administration is involved in today and its plans for "regime change" are not limited to the Middle East. They might have caught Saddam, but there's another bearded "bad-guy" on the loose, and another nation, weak after years of U.S. sanctions, to be "liberated". There's nothing new about the war against Cuba, which started in May of 1961, only four months after the Revolution overthrew U.S.-backed dictator, Fulgencio Batista. Forty-five years and over 600 assassination attempts later, the war against Cuba is now principally fought with weapons of economic destruction . The Bush Administration has intensified this economic war and made overthrowing the Cuban government a higher priority in this election year than in previous years. "

Who ruled Cuba before Castro?? You are clueless dude, you are ignorant, and mis-informed. I'm not directly attacking you but that's the truth, it's useless discussing an issue with an individual as ignorant or mis-informed as you. Before Castro, Cuba was ruled by an American backed dictator. Remember, nope you don't, cause you don't want to remember, and as I said previousely the American dictatorship is no better than the Cuban one. The only problem you have with Cuba is the fact that the people of Cuba choose Communism over your ideology, and that kills you. How could other people have different ideologies as your own, that is sickening. Let's starve the Cuban people because they choose Communism, let's harbour terrorists against them. Man we got to do what ever possible because I can't stand this.

"Four years later, in another election year (1996), Congress passed the Helms-Burton Act. This Act included another series of harsh measures aimed at preventing non-U.S. firms from trading with Cuba by punishing those who engage in commercial dealings with Cuba. Under the Helms-Burton Act, any naturalized U.S. citizens whose Cuban property had been confiscated since the Revolution now had the right to sue, in U.S. courts, the foreign companies or individuals who they deem have gained from investments in those properties ."

www.counterpunch.org...

reply to post by WhatTheory

Although the Bush administration claims that, "There is a growing international consensus on the nature of the Castro regime and the need for fundamental political and economic change on the island." for thirteen straight years, the U.N. General Assembly has voted to condemn the U.S. embargo against Cuba. On October 28, 2004, the U.N. General Assembly voted 179 to 4 with one abstention on a resolution condemning the U.S. economic embargo of Cuba. During these thirteen years, the margin in favor of Cuba has steadily increased. This year, only the United States, Israel, Palau and the Marshall Islands voted against a condemnation of the embargo. Is this the "coalition of the willing" who supports U.S. policies for "regime change" in Cuba? Just as in the current military war for "regime change" in Iraq, the U.S. government stands alone in its economic war against Cuba, supported only by a weak coalition of "allies" who cannot refuse.

I guess the world doesn't agree with media brainwashed fouls like you. There are some hypnosis videos/tapes over the internet you can use to re-program your head. This re-programming will refresh your mind and will force you to take in to consideration all the facts available to you, not just what you heard from the news reporters or should I say news speculators. That's what American news reporters really are, news speculators. They don't want you to think for your self, that's why in every news report they start speculating, that's a tactic used by the America dictators to brainwash their citizens (you).

FREE CUBA!!! END THE EMBARGO!!!

I think it is time that we give this Island neighbor the same courtasy we give to the Monarchy of Saudi Arabia, even as SA lashes the women victims for being raped and destroy an entire segment of their populations self-empowerment by being treated as second class citizens and forced to be invisible in the crowds.