Cuba Denounces new and cowardly action by the U.S. government

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Umm.....the ideology is causing the hardships. It's the same difference.

I think the ideology of US politicians is causing many of Cuba's hardships. From an outside viewpoint, the US is being purely vindictive toward Cuba because of something that happened 50 years ago. Can't the US learn to forgive or is it not big enough to be able to back down.

Maybe the US elite are worried that should an alternative to capitalism succeed (eg a system with equal access to free education and healthcare) then the US's citizens might want for something better.

No matter how it's stated, every system of government has its pitfalls - a lot of people in both the U.K and the U.S live as third worlders. Many can't afford housing, many can't afford to eat real food, many have to decide weather to pay their rent, utility bills, healthcare premiums, or to buy food. A lot of people would love to live under a socialist government where all necessities of survival are provided by the government.

Which provides the better slaves: Communism with its people who know their responsibilities to the state and comrades or Capitalism with people who don't have a stable set of expectations from their government because the system is constantly in change? Either way, the administrator/s of the system determine the people's lives, their expectations and quality of living; and who keeps them in place?

reply to post by Rapacity


Exactly, many 'Banana Republics' and their governments have begun massive reparations (Chile for example) between themselves and the people. These countries are aware of the fact that, before the country can progress, a certain measure of disclosure must be attempted to move past the years of oppression. An apology...hmmm, can it all be so simple? Maybe not. But, it is a great place to start recovering the peoples trust.


"The opposite of progress must be CON-gress."

-Cuauhtemoc

reply to post by WhatTheory

Umm....they did not choose anything. That lifestyle as you say was forced upon them. Why do you think Cubans risk their lives trying to get to the U.S.?

This is where you're wrong. The revolution was VERY welcomed in Cuba. This wasn't forced, and the only people who were forced into anything were the Batista regime elements and whatever crooked CIA ties they had. You're souting propaganda not fact.

Yea in fact cuba would probably have mirrored modern day Urban China by now had this oppressive and hateful embargo never occured. And we all know Modern Day Urban China now looks like any cookie cutter American Metropolis.

the difference being better public transit, cheaper access to health care, and cheaper access to a higher education.

The difference is China had the brute power and good location to not succumb to Western economical attacks. Cuba was unfortunately a tadpole locked in a tank with a shark, and there was no other fish around to help them out.

Originally posted by Rapacity
I think the ideology of US politicians is causing many of Cuba's hardships.

Really? How?
Or it might just be their oppresive government. Cuba can trade with whoever they wish so how is the U.S. responsible?

reply to post by WhatTheory


Ok, then Cuba chooses to trade with the US. Ok, so not who(m)ever. For years Cuba has been selling goods to Mexico for a discount price so that Mexican businesses could turn around and sell these products to the US. I did find it funny when Gov. Arnie showed up in Canada the first thing he did was buy some Cuban cigars...gotta get that important stuff outta the way first.

To come on though and say that the US has had no negative affect on the Cuban economy is a little hard to swallow. I love American people and the country itself, but some politicaly motivated individuals have made it very difficult for Cuba to make any progress with-in the NAFTA 3 or any other Latin-American country, except maybe the trades between the Castros and Chavez.

Canada has been affected by NAFTA negatively as well. The tarrifs put on our soft-wood lumber was illegal and against NAFTA agreements. So, Canada charged the US in an international court and won a settlement to recoup the illegal tarrifs put on the lumber. Unfortunately, many companies didn't survive to see the reversal of these taxes.Tarrifs (illegal) have been also levied against Mexican produce, so even with-in trade agreements there are a select few who wish to impede a nation's ability to profit from the trade pacts.

A brief summary of Canada's lumber industry issues with NAFTA: Canada has the trees, cuts the trees, packages and sells the wood to the USA, where a fee was inposed at the border. The lumber is then fabricated into chairs, tables and so on, and sold back to Canada, tarrif free.

-Cuauhtemoc

reply to post by Cuauhtemoc

Don't get me started on NAFTA.
NAFTA should be abolished immediately.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
reply to post by Cuauhtemoc

 

Don't get me started on NAFTA.

NAFTA should be abolished immediately.

Wow....The one thing you said that I agree with...Finally. Jeez.
Just kidding, I've actually really enjoyed this, and every other debate we're currently on.

Originally posted by projectvxn
I've actually really enjoyed this, and every other debate we're currently on.

Civilized debate can be enjoyable.
BTW, what is the VXN project?

Originally posted by WhatTheory
No, that is one reason why they cannot be trusted.

lol that's not what you said before duuude, you said they are communists and that's good enough excuse.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Umm....they did not choose anything. That lifestyle as you say was forced upon them. Why do you think Cubans risk their lives trying to get to the U.S.?

Someone else already answered this little query, economic harship which America has imposed upon them full-stop.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Boy, you just don't get it.
This has nothing to do with how smart they are. They cannot stand up to their government because they would be killed. Castro ruled with a iron fist. Again, why do you think so many fled Cuba at great risk to their lives in order to escape the tyranny and reach U.S. shores?

They cannot stand-up against their government lolxxxxxx. I don't think Castro is as harsh as Saddam was lol. I never seen Castro use American made WMDs against it's own people. You got to be kidding me lol, which world are you living in duude. Once again America has imposed a sanction against Cuba just like it did to Iraq, Castro is nothing compared to Saddam yet America was Saddam's best buddy when Saddam was using Chemical weapons against it's own people, I guess you don't take history in to consideration.

The only thing America thinks about is it's own interest, why else do you think America supported the Baath party, when they toppled the Democraticly elected leader Qassim. He was choosen by the Iraqi people, but America didn't like him because one of his plans were to make oil national.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Why?

How much of the poverty we attribute to communism is in fact due to other nations refusing to trade with these nations? If the world's largest consumer of sugar refuses to accept your nation's primary export because of a difference in economic ideologies, then yeah, you're going to be poor - especially if that nation uses military and economic pressure against anyone who does trade with you.

Perhaps we should treat Cuba as what it is - our third-closest neighbor in the world.

Originally posted by Ownification
that's not what you said before duuude, you said they are communists and that's good enough excuse.

Umm.....yes, that's right, so what point are you trying to make?
Don't you realize communism equals untrustworthy and all the other bad things associated with it? Thanks duuude!

Someone else already answered this little query, economic harship which America has imposed upon them full-stop.

And not a very good answer either.

They cannot stand-up against their government

Correct.

Castro is nothing compared to Saddam

That would be incorrect. So you are saying that because Castro did not use chemical weapons on his own people that he was not just as ruthless nor a tyrant.
Besides, it makes no sense to even compare the two especially since Cuba is next door and Iraq was not a communist country. Your analogy makes no sense duuude.

The only thing America thinks about is it's own interest

Whew, thank goodness. I would be disappointed if it was not so.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
How much of the poverty we attribute to communism is in fact due to other nations refusing to trade with these nations?

And with good reason. **cough** Cuban Missile Crisis **cough**
So again, there own fault.

Perhaps we should treat Cuba as what it is - our third-closest neighbor in the world.

Which happens to be a communist country and tried to have Russian nuclear warheads deployed on their soil to use against America. Let's not forget that point ok.

Ok and nothign came of it. We are best friends with the two countries we fought ruthlessly in WW2 and actually suffered massive casualties from. We have diplomatic ties and trade relations with the very nation whos nukes were on the island.

What other excuses are you going to come up with now?

Originally posted by DYepes
Ok and nothign came of it. We are best friends with the two countries we fought ruthlessly in WW2 and actually suffered massive casualties from.

Umm......Have they changed their ways since then or are they still ruled by ruthless dictators hell bent on our destruction. Secondly, they were not communist countries and that is what we are talking about.

What other excuses are you going to come up with now?

Excuses for what?

Russia was not a communist country? We even fought Chinese communists in the Korean war, we have normalized relations with them and they are still communist to a severe extent.

Just accept the turth, this country is only going to destabalize smaller nations that cannot defend itself against its own might.

I dont think anything has corrupted more in the world than the purely Capitalist system.

As said earlier, I dont want low cost health care, efficient public transportation and easy access to a higher education because I am a communist, I want it because I work from cradle to grave and get taxed for it, so why am I not allowed benefits that are not laughable?

"If I give the poor food, they call me a saint. If I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."

Originally posted by DYepes
We even fought Chinese communists in the Korean war, we have normalized relations with them and they are still communist to a severe extent.

And if you would have read through the entire thread you would know that I think our current state of relations with China is faulty. We should be treating them like the communist enemy they are.

I dont think anything has corrupted more in the world than the purely Capitalist system.

There is your problem. You are thinking. Fortunately, I know you are wrong.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
And if you would have read through the entire thread you would know that I think our current state of relations with China is faulty. We should be treating them like the communist enemy they are.

Why is it that you automatically assume anyone who is different is an enemy?
Doesn't the US have enough enemies already?

Oh well, I don't really care what you've been told to believe. A nation who throws it's weight around too much, ends up falling hard in the end.

Go back to obeying your masters.

There is your problem. You are thinking.

There's you're problem... you don't think.

reply to post by WhatTheory


WhatTheory, either you have a wicked sense of humor, are playing devils advocate, do not come from the USA, are a communist in denial, were a communist but have been brainwashed by the CIA into capitalism or you just have no concept of America doing wrong. Which is it, no, wait, I'm looking at my crystal ball right now...
...
...I see...
...I see...
...America is the blue-eyed, chosen angel that must annihilate all ways of being other than its. Ah, no, wait a minute, there is no way but the American way

LOL.

WhatTheory, I started this thread so that I could learn more about Cuba and America's opposition to Cuba, and, gratefully, a lot of people (Cuban, Ex-Cuban, Exiled Cubans, American's and others) have provided input on this thread.

I've learned a great deal and read the many different views put forth here; but your stance has remained constant throughout - you refuse to hear anything anyone has written that contradicts your learned/perceived thoughts about Cuba, Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, the difference between an ideology and the administrator who implements his brand of it, and the difference between the people of a nation, its administration and its way of living. You have shown yourself to be deaf (I hope you're not mentally blind as well).

From the way you have purported to represent America you have done it a dis-service for you have demonstrated an unlearning, unforgiving national character. A character I know is not shared by the many Americans who post on ATS. I hope others realize this. I sincerely hope, for the future of your nation, that you listen to the other members of your nation who might be able to teach you a few things about life outside of the USA and life away from the cushions of financial security (whether that security be from family or personal wealth).

Please remember that many of us come to ATS to learn, spread knowledge and discern truth from falsity. You don't seem to be teaching but attempting to brainwash by re-iterating the same argument of the "USA way is the only way." And, I'm sorry to tell you this but the USA way is about to change to a more socialist way by process of capitalism's evolution (read my previous post).

I don't doubt you are intelligent but learn that intelligence requires a lack of restraint and openness to new ideas and perceptions in order to flourish.

With respect,
Rapacity

Originally posted by johnsky
Why is it that you automatically assume anyone who is different is an enemy?

Umm.....I don't and please show were I said such a thing.
We are talking about communism. Focus, keep up please.

There's you're problem... you don't think.

You're right, I KNOW!