Your Sigil Results, this stuff works!

in this link her sigil design comes from "THISMYWOEALNPK" she left in the this is my and im just a little confused and wonder what the more experienced think...

and if not should I just go with "I wish" and always include those first words?

and WOW OP great job I was starting to get a little bored with ATS and finally a thread I can test out....


I have my wish and I am waiting for dark I am gonna try and write my sigil in lighter fluid in the back and burn it meditating on it as it burns any thoughts on this technic?

and just want to say that grant morrison video was fascinating I have all the book of lies series and somehow missed this guy thanks for the link, I cant wait!

also on the lighter side Im pretty sure that one link above said that If I masturbate ill get what I want...well DUH!

reply to post by depth om


Thanks for the reply Well since I started I gave one wish a try, and destroyed everything affiliated with that wish,

And for the life of me I'm seriously having a hard time remembering it....Lol. Hope that means I did something right rather than thinking I'm just getting old :p.

Oooooooook freaky freaky freaky....

Did my sigil yesterday night.
At one point, I got really pissed off while beeing at the computer about some personal stuff, wanted to break keyboard etc.
I did my sigil after such rage.

This morning I get a skype from realitves overseas telling me that I received an unbeleivable amount of 580.00$ in the mail.

My sigil was PATIENCE.
I powered it 3 times before going to sleep.

Boom

Initial research for the sigil:



Final sigil:



cheers.

Oooooooook freaky freaky freaky....

Did my sigil yesterday night.
At one point, I got really pissed off while beeing at the computer about some personal stuff, wanted to break keyboard etc.
I did my sigil after such rage.

This morning I get a skype from realitves overseas telling me that I received an unbeleivable amount of 580.00$ in the mail.

My sigil was PATIENCE.
I powered it 3 times before going to sleep.

Boom

Initial research for the sigil:



Final sigil:



cheers.

To SystemiK:

No, you can't have your own beliefs on this. That's because they have absolutely zero empirical proof that they might even vaguely be grounded in reality, and is the sort of medieval thinking that kept us in the Dark Ages. Don't give me no "freedom of expression" bull either, because you'd tell someone who told a kid the earth is flat to shut up too. So that's why I'm telling you.

This kind of blase, ridiculous and blatantly false theory is how superstitions and cults get started - around something that doesn't exist. I feel morally obliged to let you know it's all rubbish, and to make sure you actually understand why. Please keep reading, I think you'll get it quite quickly.

Originally posted by refinement
Of course it's in your own head. Magic is basically reality hacking - hacking your own reality, not objective reality.

Settle in, this will be a long one, and if you want to just get the point: magic is wishful thinking, and nothing else.

To start, agreeing with my point doesn't mean the two are compatible. To agree with my point invalidates anything else you can say to support "sigil magic".

I will state now, your post is full of double-speak. It's full of words that sound clever when strung together in a certain way, but make absolutely no sense when you pick them apart. I encourage the other readers of this forum to use their minds and do just that.

"Hacking your own reality, not objective reality" is one of those phrases. To hack one's own reality means to change nothing but the way one sees the world. Ergo, you have not altered reality in any way for any other person, place, object or thing. Nothing else in the entire universe is affected by your, now innaccurate, perception.

This means if a force does not change objective reality, it is not a real force. It is nothing. So this side of your argument has failed.

Originally posted by refinementThe subliminal/subconscious imprinting is precisely why it works. You can be well aware of this fact and it .....

In the real world, we call this "psychology". It's because moods and emotions dominate our lives. It is not mystical, and nothing is "forced into reality". Reality is what we make it, and what others make of it for us.

If a superstitious person had a job interview, and I told them I had put them under the sign of the evil eye, that person is bound to fail to get the job. They believe they are hexed, their confidence goes down, and the prospective employer looks at them like someone who can't do the job because they do not present themselves as if they could.

If I were to instead tell that person I had cast a blessing on them, they would instead walk in head back, chest out and prove they are the man for the position. They'd get it, and attribute it to the magic spell than to the real cause - their own self belief.

People are very sensitive to confidence - it attracts people. It stands out and makes you noticed. This argument has also failed.

Originally posted by refinementIn a sense, it's all an illusion - so? If it works well enough to create a strong sense of an illusion, and if you can will yourself to believe in that illusion through concentration and sheer force of will, then, well, it works.

You can't defend your position by brushing this off - you are presenting fiction as fact, and should be held accountable for making people believe a lie. And I'm sure you don't think of yourself as a liar.

What is worse though, is that you are taking away people's responsibility for their own actions. You are saying to people that its alright not to know, not to understand, but not to question or strive because this is how it works anyway, because its magic. This means that when something good happens, they can ascribe it to their favourite superstition, but when something bad happens, all they can do is the same, to relieve themselves of the weight of the consequences.

This is a dangerous type of thinking, because it breeds minds unable to cope with rapid change. It breeds minds that are no longer able to self-analyse, and therefore not see that they themselves might be the root of their own problems. Was it Socrates that said "a life unexamined is a life not worth living"?

The slogan of this site is "deny ignorance", and that is the rallying cry I am using now.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Your whole post is based on the belief that there is an objective reality out there that is not influenced by our consciousness. You could be right, but what if you are wrong? Considering the possiblity that you may be wrong is what denying ignorance is really about. I'm sure lots of us (myself included) have questioned whether who's version of reality is the correct one; the materialist one (mind being a product of matter), or the metaphysical one (matter being a product of the mind). It seems that there are quite a bit of users in this thread, and in some other threads on ATS that have proven for themselves that the latter is true.

OK....

WILL THIS HELP ME GET ALL 5s ON ALL MY AP EXAMS IN THE NEXT 6 YEARS AND 2400s ON MY SAT?

IF YOU SAY SO THEN I WILL TRY THIS MAN.


For some phenomenon like this, we HAVE to consider to possibility for coincidences and counfounding variables.

Originally posted by refinement
The reason you can't will a pot of gold to form in front of you or will someone to be resurrected (though Jesus seemed to be good enough at magic to do this) is probably because there are limits to the kind of power you can achieve with this. no one ever said it was infinite. But it is a quite useful way of actuating your desires, at getting at what you really want - and bending your will towards it. That is why the subconscious imprinting is useful, and how it works.

"Is probably". Slick, sly corporate words that get inserted because you have just admitted that you don't know the answer. I do know the answer, so please read on.

You can't use mythology as precedent, because it has no proof. Like magic.

The reason no-one has ever, in your purported multiple-millenia of magic, conjured up a big pile of gold, is that magic is not what you want it to be. Magic as you think of it does not exist. You can never, and will never under any circumstances make something happen that was nothing better than coincidence because you are not doing anything.

When you start getting into particle physics you see why there is no such thing as magic. It would have to be something. Even light is something, with a physical form. As you are just wishing for something to happen, you determine that any coincidence that agrees with your reasoning is applicable to magic, yet any that is not in agreement is your poor application of the spell. This is a strawman fallacy - you should actually be accepting of the fact that when the coincidence does not play out, there is no magic.

Originally posted by refinementAs a sidenote, demons are real in a symbolic sense. They are a framework through which the magical act can be seen and accomplished. In a sense, they are illusions.

"Real in a symbolic sense" is another one of your double-speak phrases. Either everything is real in a symbolic sense, because the nature of symbolism is anything can represent anything else within a given framework, or nothing is real in a symbolic sense because they are just that - symbols of something else. They are not themselves, and therefore not real.

You have used the term "demon" because it adds to the mystique of your argument, in which you are using these flashy terms to dazzle the more influential members of this board with ignorance and lies.

Originally posted by refinementConsider the Mandalas of Tibetan Buddhism. You are familiar (as I see from your sig) with the Vajra, correct? I saw a Tibetan sand mandala this past year, and the focusing idea of this mandala was the Vajra, the indestructible, the diamond, the thunderbolt. However, to focus on the Vajra, in this ceremony, the monks invoked the Amida Buddha, a deity in Tantric Buddhism associated with a certain kind of wisdom (I'm not a buddhist so I'm not really familiar with all the particulars here). They certainly believed that some sort of spirit or essence of the Amida Buddha entered into them, or the room, or the mandala itself, as they went through the invoking ceremony. The overall idea was to bring about indestructibility and to focus the monks' minds on it - to do so involved a complex ritual and belief in a deity, but, well, it seemed to work for them.

I'm not familiar with it, but I don't think for a second a bunch of old men sitting around in a mountain staring at sand and reading the writings of another little old man who lived 2,500 years ago are going to have the facilities to contest the billions spent in the west on scientific research. We spend over £800 million in the UK alone.

An invocation of a god does nothing more than produce the sound of a dozen old men making a droning noise. It does not call forth a god, because it cannot call forth a god. I'm sure everyone who's ever been killed can testify to that.

I have yet to see an argument in this that sticks. So far every one is complete nonsense that you should be ashamed of foisting onto other people.

Originally posted by refinementIt's not a shtick - I mean, of course demons don't exist in the sense of something you can touch or something external to the mind. But they do exist in our heads as a kind of potentiality or archetype that can be accessed in certain ways.

"But they do exist in our heads as a kind of potentiality or archetype that can be accessed in certain ways." - more double-speak. That is not a demon, that is called social conditioning, and every society does it so each member can interact with the next and reasonably expect how the response will be framed. It allows us to be social creatures. It is nothing to do with "demons".

This is heavily tied in with two concepts called "imagination" and "reasoning ability". It is by these processes we use our brains to conceptualise of unreality.

What you are doing is presenting your audience with an idea, which they can visualise and then understand by giving a frame of reference to get across an unfamiliar concept (using the word demon - connotations of a dark, evil, parasitic super-entity that is from beyond the world). This is a standard technique.

Try it,

But guys, remember to be carefree about it. That's very important. Treat it as if it would be nice to have the results, or that it's logical that it is working, and do not worry if or when the results will be there. Then you will not interfere with it working.

reply to post by die_another_day


Well you gotta do some leg work yourself just as well (Can't remember which link it was presented in) but someone on some site presented it as a loaded gun. Ultimately it all comes down to the person having to pull the "Trigger" or start the process, and the rest would flow like water (that is if I read it right).

Originally posted by refinementMagic has been around for millenia

No. The idea of magic has been around for millenia, magic does not exist. We have established this.

Originally posted by refinementand despite scientific thinking, which is very useful and important, it will remain for as long as the human race exists, even if it must survive as an occult phenomenon.

You see, what you do is an affront to every scientist on earth. These people, who are far smarter than I, spend their whole youth studying, then their whole lives researching to discover how it all works, so that we may truly have knowledge and enlightenment.

The things you say fly in the face of all of that, and undermine every advance these people make. If it wasn't for them doing what they do, we wouldn't be where we are. I can see no reason at all to fight against it.

Originally posted by refinementThe earliest religions evolved from magic, and the majority of the rituals you see in religion today have magical significance. Think of rosaries or invoking a Catholic saint, or the symbol of the cross or the lighting of ceremonial candles. all of these have a sort of ritualistic significance that is useful and real, at least for the participants.

The word "magic" derives from the Zoroastrian priestly order, the magi. This is how it came to the Greeks, and how it got to our culture. What you are thinking of are mystery religions. These were a transference of knowledge, a relic of a more advanced civilization (not space age probably, just clever) that deduced mathematics and it's place in the universe. Priestly orders often used dots and dashes to produce a random number generator (obviously they didn't know it was random), which was used for divination, which is where "sorcery" (from the Latin meaning "fate") comes from.

Like your "sigil magic", they ascribed coincidence to their successful use of such spells, and failure to their own mistakes when casting.

Ritualistic significance means only that the person has been programmed to perform a certain sequence of actions on a certain cue. Pavlov did very much the same thing with his drooling dogs - any action and response can be programmed.

Rubbing your rosary beads while praying is a good idea, as it means the person who is praying is holding an object they only ever hold while they are praying, so it is a natural association. Again, none of these examples lends any credence to your assertions.

Originally posted by refinementWe're not talking about shooting thunderbolts out of our hands. This is not Dungeons and Dragons. But in the sense that I am talking about, magic is quite real, and quite useful, even if there are no forces involved other than the strengthening of one's own desires or will or connection with the universe.

Well that is the most productive magic you'll ever experience. When you fireball ten goblins in one round, you know you are getting much better economy per spell than someone spends four hours trying to do that which amounts to nothing.

A message of enlightenment does not need to be dressed in lies to make it more palatable. Your concessions just show you lack courage in your statements, because you don't know the answer.

And ultimately that is what it boils down too. Like everyone else, you are scared and confused. Not in a gibbering wreck sort of way, but in an expansive, "what happens next?" sort of way. You don't understand it all, and the catch-all phrase "magic" handily gives you not only a way of explaining it, but a way of manipulating it. It is a complete falsity, and you are doing nothing but decieving yourself and deluding the poor people who you spread this false message to.

Magic is not real. It is not useful. What is useful is self-confidence and analytical thinking, not pie-in-the-sky daydreaming.

You're probably going to just give me an "oh well anything appears foolish when you actually explain it!" response because I think you fundamentally know that you have no proof, and no comeback on this situation.

Please, please please don't let this vast essay (my teachers would have been amazed) go to waste and just dismiss it. You don't have to reply now, by tomorrow I'll have probably forgotten to come back and check it anyway, but just go away and think about it. Be reasonable with yourself, and be realistic.

Carl

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by C.C.Benjamin

 

Your whole post is based on the belief that there is an objective reality out there that is not influenced by our consciousness. You could be right, but what if you are wrong? Considering the possiblity that you may be wrong is what denying ignorance is really about. I'm sure lots of us (myself included) have questioned whether who's version of reality is the correct one; the materialist one (mind being a product of matter), or the metaphysical one (matter being a product of the mind). It seems that there are quite a bit of users in this thread, and in some other threads on ATS that have proven for themselves that the latter is true.

Okay, look at it like this:

When you die, do you think the universe will end for everyone else?

Exactly.

The very nature of your post is contradictory - "the materialist or metaphysical" is a silly thing to say. Reality is defined by how we can interact with what is located around us. If we can't interact with it (the "metaphysical" universe) then it can't possibly be reality for us. It must be something else (heaven, spirituality, whatever).

This then follows that if we can't interact with it and have no way of detecting it, then, to be pragmatic about life, it probably doesn't exist.

As for the "just let it flow and it will happen" statement you made after, that just goes to show the kind of wishful thinking that goes into endevours like these. If you just wait for it to happen, it eventually will. It's called coincidence, plain and simple.

You claim I am the one without an open mind on the subject, but you are the one in the position in which you see me. I have not based my reality on "what if?"'s, I have based it on the evidence. The evidence shows the Standard Model of physical interactions. It's not perfect, but that's what the evidence shows.

If the evidence showed the existence of a "magic" particle, i'd be on your side. I'd be giving this massive lecture against those people who weren't accepting reality as it is to the human race.

I am completely and utterly open to someone casting a spell in front of me and giving me a provable, repeatable result. Trust me, no-one would like magic more than me, but it is a fairytale. It doesn't exist, it is a way of explaining the unexplainable, and it does nothing than harbour dangerous superstitions that five hundred years of scientific thinkers have strove to fight against.

Ben, what is your definition of magic.

Edit: Carl,

[edit on 14-5-2008 by depth om]

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

Okay, look at it like this:

When you die, do you think the universe will end for everyone else?

Exactly.

When I die, there are still 6 billion people alive, aren't there? And that's just talking about human consciousness. There are even scientific theories popping up that discuss the notion that human consciousness is actually interconnected and part of something larger. The Global Consciousness project has done experiments with that theory.

The very nature of your post is contradictory - "the materialist or metaphysical" is a silly thing to say.

It is only contradictory in the strict, newtonian mindset, which apparently is becoming outdated.

Reality is defined by how we can interact with what is located around us. If we can't interact with it (the "metaphysical" universe) then it can't possibly be reality for us. It must be something else (heaven, spirituality, whatever).

This then follows that if we can't interact with it and have no way of detecting it, then, to be pragmatic about life, it probably doesn't exist.

And again, that is a theory based on the current newtonian mindset.

Take a look at this link: The current science is seriously threatening the current accepted version of reality and how it works.

physicsworld.com...

As for the "just let it flow and it will happen" statement you made after, that just goes to show the kind of wishful thinking that goes into endevours like these. If you just wait for it to happen, it eventually will. It's called coincidence, plain and simple.

Tell that to the members who have caused their own successes to happen the way they wanted to in this thread.

You claim I am the one without an open mind on the subject,

Where did I say that? Didn't I say you may be right?

but you are the one in the position in which you see me.

Didn't I say that that could be the case?

I have not based my reality on "what if?"'s, I have based it on the evidence. The evidence shows the Standard Model of physical interactions. It's not perfect, but that's what the evidence shows.

That's the old evidence, the new evidence is quite bizarre, so that it's threatening the accepted model of reality.

If the evidence showed the existence of a "magic" particle, i'd be on your side. I'd be giving this massive lecture against those people who weren't accepting reality as it is to the human race.

Reality as it is to the human race is subjective. Objectivity does not exist, because jump low, jump high, we all have color filtered glasses through which we look at it. Even scientists do.

Giving me a provable, repeatable result. Trust me, no-one would like magic more than me,

Then try it. Make an honest attempt at doing the sigils, or anything else related for that matter. I've done similar things, and I have personally seen that changing my mind and beliefs about my reality changes the ways I experienced it. I've been able to influence how people react to me without even communicating it to them, for example.

but it is a fairytale. It doesn't exist, it is a way of explaining the unexplainable, and it does nothing than harbour dangerous superstitions that five hundred years of scientific thinkers have strove to fight against.

You might want to take a look at my thread here, which shows that there are tons of scientific studies going on that seriously threaten the current mainstream view of materialism.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 14-5-2008 by TheBandit795]

When you die, do you think the universe will end for everyone else?

The world of mine that all those others - including the billions who do not know me personally - inhabit along with me might. Or not.

In other, simpler words: you live in a world, in a "present", where Napoleon is dead, a part of "history": you are alive, and he is not.

But Napoleon - who himself once lived in a world full of venerable olden dead ones - might see it differently...


Sounds like self-indulgent sophistry - or worse, right?

It's not.
It's just an idea to ponder on.
Obviously, I am not saying it IS so, period. It is just a thought.

But the mere fact that such a thought can occur to a human in the first place - and that human can have a sustained idea of how such existence might work - makes it worth looking into.

Exactly

That's just it: there is no exactly.


P.S. I wish I could go into more detail - and I have, in other threads, scattered all over the place - but right now there is no way I could do that. Logistic and other temporal considerations prevent me from staying too long on this board.












[edit on 14-5-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Quite honestly, I think you should take at least a college level philosophy101 course and then see about how you view things.

Good philosophy: You exist because of me. Everything I perceive is translated by a program in my head, and I am aware of my existence, yet my only proof of your existence is that there are words (being translated from my senses) on the screen. I cannot prove that anything outside my own mind exists beyond my own thought. So, in a philisophical sense, you cease to exist when I die. I guess, along these same lines, I can make my own reality. Your only limit is your mind... go argue against that to a bhudist. They've been using that same philosophy for quite some time.

I'm willing to bet that these scientists and others you prescribe to for your 'open mindedness' all know and have contemplated this. The best RECENT illustration of this is The Matrix. The first one, not the next 2, which lost deeper meaning in leu of entartainment value and effects.

Edit: Just had to add, 911Fnord... I dig the name, and the pic of Bob

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Earthscum]

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
NOTHING IS HAPPENING THAT IS NOT INSIDE YOUR OWN HEADS. YOUR EXPERIENCE IS DOWN TO YOUR OWN PERCEPTIONS ONLY, NO MAGIC HAS OR WILL EVER TAKE PLACE.

The great part about reality, is that we acknowledge only that which is relavent to our own beliefs in relation to ourselves.

In our universe, where we are the ones in control of our perceptions, you can only intimidate us so far before we are slaves to conventional thinking, and outside negative and controlling influences, no longer.

Bullies are bad, I notice you have old-testamet destruction styled signatures.

The Laws of Quantum Physics Trumps, your no-magic theory.

Call it science now, but in the Western Pre-Imperial heyday it was magick.

-ADHD

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


So it's not ok to believe that we can control our own destiny... but is it ok to believe that if we just have faith, that "God will provide and work miracles" as long as we attend church services and accept the weekly brainwashing in exchange for monetary offering in the plate?

reply to post by annestacey


BWA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Right on, AS!

I'll tell ya, I wonder, yet again, how some members can so vehemantly disbelieve in anything self-empowering (like sigil magick, for instance) and generally relying on the power within themselves while spending an hour every Sunday standing with others in relying on a God to keep them safe.

Amen, right?

So yeah, I guess it's okay to have "faith" in a "supreme being", yet, feel the need to knock others who, in this case, create a "faith" in their own ability to self-empower.

Ain't instant gratification a bitch?

Right on, annestacy, right on!



On topic I'll add that I did do three sigil rituals this morning and I will record and report results accordingly.

@ Bandit- Well said! Every post, well said!


Cuhail

sigil? ritual? Does anyone care to educate me? How do you choose the right sigil for the right situation? What have everybody been talking about? Links? I would love to try this over the summer....