If New Free Country existed would you move?

I would love to create a Utopia. It would have to have some natural resourses. Special interest groups would not be allowed to buy favors. The penalty would be death. With freedom we would have huge problems. I would prefer these problems to the ones we have now.

I'd love to move to such a place.. Unfortunately,where there are people, there are people who want to take control,make laws and rules to control others,advance their own comforts/wants/desires over others' needs etc.

If we just got rid of these out of our own society then IT would become a Utopia...

But in answer to your question..
I'd move like a shot....
Just me and my bow and arrows..

Originally posted by xpert11

Originally posted by BradKell
xpert11, I call you on your statement. You state you will see RikRiley at the Constitutional Convention... and now he has called one! LOL!

I am so there .

Will you grace us with your prescense in the building of Freedom?

That depends on the final outcome but I reckon myself and any other supporters of democracy could extract enough of a comprise(SP?) to make it worth while .

I would put this model forward for the sake of discussion.

The Bill of Rights is Supreme Law and 75% support of Congress is required before any changes can be made . The Supreme Court can strike down any Bill that Violates the Bill of Rights and has been approved by the attorney general .

Congress and Presidential elections are held every four years . The President requires a majority in Congress to govern .

Separation of the Church and the state .

Freedom wouldn't be a true parliamentary democracy but it would seem to be a good middle of the road option. I'm not a huge fan of wide spread gun ownership but also for the sake of discussion I will say that I would gun ownership being a part of the Bill of Rights in exchange for anti discrimination cause . No person should be discriminated against on the basis of sex , sexuality , race and religion.

Hi xpert11, we do appreciate your participation in the forming of a New Nation Freedom. I personally am leading toward a true Citizen Republic originally intended by our Forefathers to be followed by law of the United States verses setting up a pure or true Democracy. We most graciously invite you to the Grand Constitutional convention and your help of making and writing of The Great Constitution For Freedom Land. What say Ye?

The original intent of the Constitution of The United States Of America was founded originally as a Citizen Republic as I have stated. The direction of the United States since 911 is the fulfillment of Fascism or more of a fascist state.
Do not take my word for it look up the meaning of Fascism.

It is a fair compromise to have guns along with strong anti-discrimination laws being a part of the Bill Of Rights. Everything else I am mostly in agreement with in this well thought out post of yours.

I believe when it comes to the senate and House of Representatives that both should have 4 year terms verses the 6 years that is aloted for Senators when they are voted in office. We are not looking for lifers in office just to do their civic duty. I am also in favor of restricting the term of the judiciary, The Supreme court to a maximum of an eight year term, period. Again I do not want lifers in office setting up shop to become their life long occupation and ambition. The power is to the people not the politicians and elected officials.
Rik Riley

Originally posted by earthman4
I would love to create a Utopia. It would have to have some natural resourses. Special interest groups would not be allowed to buy favors. The penalty would be death. With freedom we would have huge problems. I would prefer these problems to the ones we have now.

Hi earthman4, here in Freedom Land you will have the right to create your own Utopia on your parcel of 100 acres of land given to you if you meet the qualifications of entry and citizenship. As a new country we can not promise you a Utopia but in many ways a better way of life. Although Freedom Land is not real it is as real as can be in each individuals mind. Rik Riley

[edit on 16-5-2008 by rikriley]

Originally posted by AGENT_T
I'd love to move to such a place.. Unfortunately,where there are people, there are people who want to take control,make laws and rules to control others,advance their own comforts/wants/desires over others' needs etc.

If we just got rid of these out of our own society then IT would become a Utopia...

But in answer to your question..
I'd move like a shot..

..
Just me and my bow and arrows..

Hi Agent_T, you are welcome to apply to come to Freedom Land and once you are qualified entry and citizenship your bow and arrows are welcome too. The Utopia you speak of will start with your 100 acres of land given to each qualified citizen. To make it clear Freedom Land is a mythical place and applauds you for wanting to move to our New Founded Land. Rik Riley

reply to post by rikriley


A couple of preliminary questions..

Will there be any paperwork involved if said arrows accidentally land on someone else's 100 acres... or even more accidentally .. IN someone..?

Will we be allowed to marry our more attractive cousins?..

I've an application pending for Shelbyville just in case..

Originally posted by star in a jar
One way ticket for me please, Our leaders are criminals and thieves.

star in a jar you are welcome to come to the mythical Freedom Land to apply for entry and citizenship. Freedom land is in each individuals mind especially how it is suppose to be and we all dare to dream big dreams for the purpose of our destiny to do something great for the purpose of a better way of life. Rik Riley

Originally posted by star in a jar
One way ticket for me please, Our leaders are criminals and thieves.

star in a jar you are welcome to come to the mythical Freedom Land to apply for entry and citizenship. Freedom land is in each individuals mind especially how it is suppose to be and we all dare to dream big dreams for the purpose of our destiny to do something great for the purpose of a better way of life. Rik Riley

Originally posted by AGENT_T
reply to post by rikriley

 

A couple of preliminary questions..

Will there be any paperwork involved if said arrows accidentally land on someone else's 100 acres... or even more accidentally .. IN someone..?

Will we be allowed to marry our more attractive cousins?..

I've an application pending for Shelbyville just in case..

The laws of Freedom Land will be spelled out if you break the law there will be a price to pay. Marrying Attractive or Ugly 2nd or 3rd cousins LOL will be up to the new laws spelled out in Freedom Land. Hold onto that application for Shelbyville just in case. Rik Riley

reply to post by BradKell


Hi BradKill, we would request your distinguished presents and would be respectfully honored to have you join us the founding fathers and Mothers of Freedom Land located at the the Grand Constitutional Convention gathering in Independence City to help draw up and implement the New Constitution for Freedom Land. This will be held on the first Tuesday July 1st, 2008 time to be announced. What say Ye? Rik Riley

Originally posted by rikriley
I personally am leading toward a true Citizen Republic

The direction of the United States since 911 is the fulfillment of Fascism or more of a fascist state.
Do not take my word for it look up the meaning of Fascism.

It is a fair compromise to have guns along with strong anti-discrimination laws being a part of the Bill Of Rights. Everything else I am mostly in agreement with in this well thought out post of yours.

I believe when it comes to the senate and House of Representatives that both should have 4 year terms verses the 6 years that is aloted for Senators when they are voted in office. I am also in favor of restricting the term of the judiciary, The Supreme court to a maximum of an eight year term, period. Again I do not want lifers in office setting up shop
Rik Riley

Where is the power of the people if you are already making decisions for everyone else?

America has been leaning towards fascism since the first world war, doubled its efforts with WW2, increased its stance with NASA and has gone on in leaps and bounds since GW took control.

A fair compromise to have guns? A compromise? Just who are you going to be afraid of if your city offers and allows true freedom?

Your rantings seem to be setting yourself up for president already. It appears you're only talking to those who are happy to accept your ideals based on an already corruptable system.

Even your ideas of an 'entrance application' to freedomland is discriminatory in itself. That's not freedom...that's allowing only those who you want to let in, in. Yet you proclaim strong anti-discrimination laws. Your country is already making a lot of other people angry already and you may find yourself at war faster than you think.

You want freedom...break down the barriers. Set an example to the world. No passports, no identity control. No discrimination of any kind

Originally posted by Extralien

Originally posted by rikriley
I personally am leading toward a true Citizen Republic

The direction of the United States since 911 is the fulfillment of Fascism or more of a fascist state.
Do not take my word for it look up the meaning of Fascism.

It is a fair compromise to have guns along with strong anti-discrimination laws being a part of the Bill Of Rights. Everything else I am mostly in agreement with in this well thought out post of yours.

I believe when it comes to the senate and House of Representatives that both should have 4 year terms verses the 6 years that is aloted for Senators when they are voted in office. I am also in favor of restricting the term of the judiciary, The Supreme court to a maximum of an eight year term, period. Again I do not want lifers in office setting up shop
Rik Riley

Where is the power of the people if you are already making decisions for everyone else?

America has been leaning towards fascism since the first world war, doubled its efforts with WW2, increased its stance with NASA and has gone on in leaps and bounds since GW took control.

A fair compromise to have guns? A compromise? Just who are you going to be afraid of if your city offers and allows true freedom?

Your rantings seem to be setting yourself up for president already. It appears you're only talking to those who are happy to accept your ideals based on an already corruptable system.

Even your ideas of an 'entrance application' to freedomland is discriminatory in itself. That's not freedom...that's allowing only those who you want to let in, in. Yet you proclaim strong anti-discrimination laws. Your country is already making a lot of other people angry already and you may find yourself at war faster than you think.

You want freedom...break down the barriers. Set an example to the world. No passports, no identity control. No discrimination of any kind

We can start with the wind and let the wind write the Freedom Land Constitution or we can start with Men and Women the founding Fathers and Mothers that will write the Freedom Land Constitution. The power will be with the people but what you are reading are my ideas that are not etched in stone, I am but one person. It takes many Women and Mens ideas to write a viable meaningful ironclad Constitution and Bill of rights.

I am glad to be a founding Father of Freedom land and first and foremost I will be a citizen of this mythical Country. With being appointed President brings great responsibility the delegates or the people will chose the First President or Prime Minister of this unique country.

You are already talking of war and the borders have not been open yet and this is but one reason the right to keep and bear arms is needed also for the people to protect themselves against tyranny in their government if that should take place. I propose to install Tesla's defensive and offensive weapon beam that can knock out an invading force up to 200 miles away land or sea. This will be installed when funds permit the construction of such devices.

Lets say a band of pirates decided to Penetrate the shores of Freedom Land and you are living in your dwelling on the beach and they come and want to take everything you own. You are without weapons and being a young country you do not have 911 service or a viable armed force yet so who are you going to call Ghost Busters. You would be the first one to scream the loudest if such an incident took place and this is another reason to bear arms. Again an armed Force will have to be assembled as soon as possible to protect the citizens.

I am not going to apologize when it comes to screening applicants for citizenship. With this world or another world the way things are I do not want to take a chance of a terrorist or subversive trying to enter the country legal or illegal. All human races on this Earth will have the right to enter Freedom land after an application is completed and an acceptance has been made for citizenship.

We are not setting up a welfare state each of our citizens are given title and deed to a hundred acres of land while it lasts. They must work that land and be a productive citizen to enter, have a trade, skill, job lined up, brain power or viable business. When the application is accepted the new citizen is free to come and go as they wish as long as they abide by the laws of Freedom Land.
Remember this is a new country that has not been settled yet. Rik Riley



[edit on 16-5-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by rikriley


With respect, I think you're jumping the gun just a tad bit too far.

It's day 1 in Freedom land and all the first settlers have arrived.

There is no money.
There is no food.
No shops, houses, hospitals, roads or any other item, device or service we are currently used to having.

You all have immediately got to work out a way of establishing food, water and a dry place to sleep for all of you. Team work arranged through mutual agreement via conversation will achieve this...not orders or a governmental decree.

Meanwhile, others know of your plans and are on their way as you work. They arrive in Freedom land and set up on their own chosen little spot.. You see them and ask them to leave but they wont as it's a free country.

You wouldn't have the right to kick them out. You can't imprison them. You can't shoot them.

Even if you had a government with al its laws and rules, a government only works if it's believed in.

reply to post by rikriley


Well if you didn't invite me to the Convention I would have gate crashed the party . When I think of a Republic the first thing that springs to my mind is no longer having the queen as head of state. So in my eyes at least Freedom would always be a Republic whether or not the president was elected by the people or by the Electoral College. Of course I favour the president and cabinet being elected by popular vote . I would support eight year terms for the judiciary such a measure could help to prevent the Supreme Court from becoming infected with partisanship.

In the spirit of Free Enterprise I hear by apply for a license that allows me run a private company that establishes a transport system ,and other basic infrastructure . I would also like to offer transport to those who wish to come to Freedom but have no way of doing so .

Extralien you have to comprise(SP?) or you end up with nothing.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by xpert11]

reply to post by Extralien


Money, sadly, is neccassary. It's simple a measure. Whether this is kept electronically, physically (coin) or in barter (where 10 chickens equal one cow and two cows equal one good horse, etc.)

Now, what you are talking about is part of the Communist ideal (hold your anger, people. Communism is, in fact, the most perfect Government ON PAPER and an excellant place to start. All, IN THEORY, get what is needed, land food and clothing.) Taxation is necessary as well, with out it the Government has no money to support the citizens. It's how the taxes are collected and from whom. Tax the Business, not the worker.

I do move towards something similiar for the working of the government. I am undecided on Military Service. The thought that one must serve to deserve the benefits fits the "Pay Your Way" mantra, though forced service does indeed violate the CHOICE or Freedom of the citizens.

Military is necessity, as we must be able to defend our borders. Merely having a Military does not mean one will Invade. As you said, India has never invaded another country. Now, they have been ALLIED, though... meaning they must have a Military of some sort to help support those Allies. Not having any means of defense is as foolish as wreaklessly invading others.

As for the Language and other worries, I see these as secondary to the main. Regardless of Language, if we get the core right then people will follow. After all, we obviously can't have 27 national languages, we couldn't even understand ourselves then. This is purely a secondary need which will not matter if the basic fundamentals are properly laid.

Pretty much, I speak what ever language the Nation taking PROPER care of me and my family and freedoms dictates is the Nations Language. After all, if you insist on English, and I insist on American English, and some one else insists on Korean, and another of Ebonics... aren't we really wasting time when we could be figuring out health care or retirement issues?

Let's get SOMETHING RIGHT before we try to get EVERYTHING RIGHT.

Originally posted by Extralien
reply to post by rikriley

 

With respect, I think you're jumping the gun just a tad bit too far.

It's day 1 in Freedom land and all the first settlers have arrived.

There is no money.
There is no food.
No shops, houses, hospitals, roads or any other item, device or service we are currently used to having.

You all have immediately got to work out a way of establishing food, water and a dry place to sleep for all of you. Team work arranged through mutual agreement via conversation will achieve this...not orders or a governmental decree.

Meanwhile, others know of your plans and are on their way as you work. They arrive in Freedom land and set up on their own chosen little spot.. You see them and ask them to leave but they wont as it's a free country.

You wouldn't have the right to kick them out. You can't imprison them. You can't shoot them.

Even if you had a government with al its laws and rules, a government only works if it's believed in.

Ye of little faith, All you have to do is believe. One of our anonymous wealthy dedicated settlers has donated $20,000,000,000 of her own money to help set up an infrastructure that includes generators, portable power plants, water, and the drilling of water wells also the use free energy devices that have been held back until now. She wants Freedom Land to succeed and will be willing the rest of her fortune to help jump start the New Freedom Land when she passes. Remember Freedom Land is a mythical country where anything is possible. We will be energy independent using hydrogen and electric for our vehicles.

Our anonymous donor had someone help her get started when she was down and out and wants to pay it back thru helping humanity throughout Freedom Land. Food will be available to our settlers from day one at distribution centers and locations throughout the country. Bartering with credits given will be the means of purchase power starting out.

Since Freedom Land is surrounded by water and the Sun shines most of the time we will be using wind to generate electricity and solar power also. We control the weather thru advanced technologies in Freedom Land.

I almost forgot our anonymous donor owns a communication company and will be setting up a communications network at no cost. A make shift hospital ship has been donated by one of our new settlers off shore. People will go to great lengths to see Freedom Land's Freedom and infrastructure succeed. Extralien do you have anymore worries? Rik Riley



[edit on 16-5-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by Extralien


This is why a Government must PRECEED the people, must be there FIRST.

There must be rules, there must be laws. This is to preserve peace and happiness. After all, if there were no rules then the Government could not help you if your neighbors raided your house and raped your family. Now, you could extract vengence yourself... if strong enough.

Remember, always, it is the just man who is at the disadvantage. If you fight by the rules, others will not... and you will loose. This is where strength in numbers comes into effect, a proper Government inacting the Laws and taking immediate Action.

There must be rules governing the allocation of lands, how to disperse the origanal allotments of foods and water and goods. How each person chooses his parcel of land. How each member is screen for citizenship.

And, yes, we must screen. After all, if we allow (and don't even know who they are) murderers, rapists, thieves and terrorists into our lands... what kind of Nation would be built then? There is no discrimination if those you rebuke are those who wish to destroy freedom. That is called DEFENDING YOURSELF. Race, Religion, Former Country will not be biased against as those things themselves do not make the man/woman. However, a record of Violence, Rape, and other such things pretty much sums one up as what one is. Of course, even these will be researched as Just Cause or False Accusations could be the root of the problem. Each gets ones chance to speak on ones behalf, and have the records reviewed.

Some may be given, if accepted conditionally, a Second Chance... probably committed to join and be retained in the Military for X number of years. This is completely CHOICE, as they can choose to join or choose to remain outside of Freedom. Personal choice given, a chance to redeem.

This is purely theorectical, as this is merely an idea of mine that must be discussed with others first.

Notice that Government is so decisions can be made and acted upon quickly (that WAS the idea, now Washington bogs things down to a crawl) as polling all people independant can be very time consuming, allowing the event that needed action to come to pass before a decision is made. Every person needs to be heard, it's how we achieve this that matters. Thoughts must flow fluidly and action must be taken quickly and decisively, while a clear and rational plan is being followed.

I do think our Military should be based on Nation Guard and Coast Guard measure, purely defensive in nature and here to support the people. Elite Para-Military units in reserve for special defensive needs.

Police is another matter of great discussion.

However, before we go through all this we must first work out the basics. How to afford such services. We must start at 0 and work up to something.

Piece by piece. Expect this early model to be torn down many times to be built up better. We want the best laid plans at the heart of this, not something hastily thrown together.

reply to post by rikriley


While I'll take a good 20 Billion to get things started, let us focus on some actuality. Let us contend that we are designing this government without any land laid out. Perhaps we purchase this land at a later date. Perhaps we move out to unclaimed lands and claim them. Who knows.

We are a broke people, only the money we have in our pockets and accounts to use. Fortunately we are at the Free Stage, as it costs nothing for men to express there ideals and put things on paper. The IDEA phase is free, thus one must stay in the Phase until reaching the closest to perfection a system can achieve... because once you start you can't stop... and then the bills must be paid. Then it is no longer free. The sacrifice of time, money... even lives... must be paid at some point.

So, while Free of those Pressures, Free of those Costs, let us take our time to build the best we can build. Let us tear down to build up. Let us say, 'Ah, this is fine. Now, how to crush it.' Because, if you can't crush it then it must actually be fine. Only then do you proceed.

We need a group, but not to large a group. To many cooks spoil the meal. However, we must remain in contact with others who support this idea, as we can not alienate ourselves and our ideas from those we wish to serve. Similar to the Senate of Rome, or our own Democracy, minus the corruption.

Choose your ears to hear those voices, the voices of the People. Call us together. No less than 5, and an odd number indeed is needed. Majority will rule, but not 51-49. A greater amount of agreement is needed. We will work these issues out once you have your Council (or I should say once the Council has it's Council, as none are yet in charge. I merely charge you with the task as Freedom was your idea. You should hold some of the responsibility, if only to learn truly have tough such a road is to travel.)

Originally posted by xpert11
reply to post by rikriley

 

Well if you didn't invite me to the Convention I would have gate crashed the party .

When I think of a Republic the first thing that springs to my mind is no longer having the queen as head of state. So in my eyes at least Freedom would always be a Republic whether or not the president was elected by the people or by the Electoral College. Of course I favour the president and cabinet being elected by popular vote . I would support eight year terms for the judiciary such a measure could help to prevent the Supreme Court from becoming infected with partisanship.

In the spirit of Free Enterprise I hear by apply for a license that allows me run a private company that establishes a transport system ,and other basic infrastructure . I would also like to offer transport to those who wish to come to Freedom but have no way of doing so .

Extralien you have to comprise(SP?) or you end up with nothing.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by xpert11]

expert11, You are thinking, isn't free enterprise great? I believe you will be at the head of the line because Freedom Land will need a transport system and most certainly an infrastructure. Oh by the way Expert11 you were formally invited to participate as one of the Founding Fathers at the Grand Constitutional convention, the invite is the 3rd post on this page #8 if you missed it and you were not forgotten LOL. Rik Riley

[edit on 16-5-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by BradKell


BradKel, all your ideas and thoughts expressed carry great wisdom and along with this wisdom comes the great responsibility of Leadership as you know. Great to have you aboard. We must recruit other great minds to form Freedom Land's Constitution and this is why I gave the founding Fathers and Mothers until July 1st, 2008 to do so as well as get our thoughts down on paper. I would like to see a written Declaration of Freedom along with our Bill of Rights and Constitution.

One thing I would like to see is Freedom Land set aside one special day in honor of the American Indian and call it Indian Nations Day. This is a tribute to all the Indian Nations tribes and the hardship that they have endured thru the taking of their precious land. Rik Riley



[edit on 16-5-2008 by rikriley]