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Originally posted by lilblam
Alright, but Satan didn't have the name Lucifer till the translators decided to give it to him apparently...
or perhaps there is a real transformation of Lucifer. First he was Lucifer (the highest in rank) and then he stood up against God and became Satan...?
Then it is just a separation of ranks, and Lucifer was at the same rank as Jesus... but not the same as Jesus. And Satan would be the name for Lucifer after he stood up against God... is that possible? (it is just a thought by the way).
Also, Jesus DID say about himself that he was the morning star. so that could be a rank?
Jesus was the bringer of Light, but Satan could only be bringer of Darkness...
Satan could be bringer of darkness after he stood up against God... before that he really could be bringer of light (he was the highest in rank of the angels).
However, if they are talking about a high king, they could very well praise him or something and attribute "morning star" to him... but this doesn't mean it is indeed Satan..
But interesting points
Originally posted by lendog
Actually, you are going the long way around in your quest to find the origin of satan. Any biblical encyclopedia will give you the history of satan and tell you how the story of Lucifer was made up by a man named Oregen. It is a documented historical fact and as you study it's origins, you will find that no, there really isn't satan.
Originally posted by lilblam
And you know what else? Since humans fell from eden, WE are the fallen ones. We FELL in the Bible, we ARE what Satan so allegorically represents! We are the "fallen angels" as we once were "different", but now we fell into ignorance and service to self (self-pleasing creatures). There is no mysterious magic beings involved, and the story of the "fall" of humanity is reflected in numerous religions WAY before Christianity was even born. This all goes much deeper and further than many people think...
Originally posted by Ade1965x
When I took Philosophy in college my professor told us of a small group of people, back in the ancient days, who believed that Lucifer was in the right. But although religion "could" have been formed from the concept, there would be no way to generate money from it.
The basic theroy is this. What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing the difference between good and evil? I mean really.....what is the big deal.....don't you appreciate knowing the difference between the two? It is the first basic thing we teach to children. Were Adam and Eve to remain less than children?
Lucifer believed in democracy. You are no better than I or visa versa. We are all equal. Not better than the others, which would've been God and the angel's, but just the same. So what ensued was pretty much the reversal of England/America. America fought for their "freedom" from oppression. God gave 1/3 of his host "freedom" due to his arrogance of the fact that he couldnt believe that others would not blindly follow his rule.
But when man decided to cultivate religion this part was squelched to make room for the money making machine that we now call Religion. And Lucifer was made into an angry demonic devil to fuel the machine and make it run more smoothly.
Originally posted by Truth
First of all lucifer is a light bringer but of false light, which is false knowledge. if your talking about the KJV version of the Lucifer translation than this is only one thing wrong with the KJV. The original version 1611 taught astrology and literally had pagan gods all through
its pages. Its literally the bible of satan if you ask me, and proof is in ts translations and contradictions which it contains 100s of,including leaving out " thou sall (not) commit adultury "
" satan wanted everybody equal "
really? Thats not true because im not equal to the one who made me. whats insane about this is that if satan hates God, then why does he hate us? Or why does he even hate his followers? If you don't think so than you should read up on Pope Leo xlll who had conversations with satan where satan told him
he would destroy humaity through the church.
equal?
Hes a piece of hateful nothig if you ask me. and hes oly out to destroy this world with filth and pride. Im sorrybut i love God and don;t want to be prideful, yet my free will choose this. I guess my free will don't count.
Look at us, we are typing on an electronical device and we have created machines that suck the life from us every single day, all because we envoked satans knowledge of technology.
This same invoking will completely destroy us because of nuclear bombs.
Peace.
Originally posted by lilblam
...and LIGHT is knowledge.. it is TRUTH. So Jesus is bringer of knowledge.
Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Originally posted by lilblam
...and LIGHT is knowledge.. it is TRUTH. So Jesus is bringer of knowledge.
Nice extrapolation indeed. I'm just going to inject a little logic.
Light is not knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. Light is light. And truth is neither light nor knowledge. It is truth.
And Jesus was a bringer of knowledge, but how, in logical sequence, you get from LIGHT being KNOWLEDGE, then KNOWLEDGE being TRUTH, and then ending with the obvious statement that Jesus was the bringer of knowledge, when we all know that christ means teacher...
There are to many undefined degrees of separation in that statement just to lead to a conclusion that requires no real study or insight.
Originally posted by bugman5999
Now you say there is no good evil. It is all relative to each of us. Have you ever said, "That's not fair?". If someone takes your seat or picks on a younger and smaller person we complain and protest. It is natural throughout all of humankind and I'm not saying that you won't have a few bad spots here and there. Is it our education that creates this morality? Is it from a higher power? Is it manifested by our human mind in some unique form of instinct? Where did morality stem from? Throughout the animal kingdom only ourselves show morality.
I have always just wondered about morality and the way is so strongly influences us. We are very unique creatures and sure you can say we were brainwashed into this state of morality. Can any of you honestly say that it's ok to kill off people who are deformed or people who hurt our gene pool?
Why is it that when I serve others rather than myself I feel more fullfillment than when I'm basking in my materialism? Is that me being brainwashed by religious ideas?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I see someone who claims to believe everything is relative and morality is subjunctive the next thing I see is him complaining about how fair something is.
I have never met anyone who truly believes in relative truth and can live like they believe in relative truth.
So I think we really need to look at morality and truth in a more logical sense than just outright saying there is no right and wrong because it's all relative and subjunctive.
I've tried to live relatively and subjunctivly but it's something I fail at continually, especially when compassion for my own fellow human beings consumes me.
My points are:
1. We need to try and understand why it is so hard for us to live relatively and subjunctivly (don't ask me)
2. We can't come to hasty conclusions about morality.......like saying there is no good and evil.
3. We need to focus on the uniqueness of us as humans and why we are so morally focussed creatures.
4. We can't close our minds because many of us who profess to believe in relative truth fail to show our belief through our own lives.