Shards of the Illuminati

Originally posted by lazy1981
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

By the way there are also some that think that Thoth/Hermes and Quetzalcoatl are actually the same "deity." That places some emphasis on the intertwined serpents, being that Hermes staff (the Caduceus) was two "opposing" serpents in a double helix form.

I know that the similarities are not to an exact science but maybe it will help.

Interesting. The very first reflex I had immediately after reading the page at the first link was to grab my copy of The Corpus Hermeticum.

Hmmm. I'd have to say I instinctively agreed then. I guess it's time to brush up and bring it more into the realm of conscious thought.

[edit on 4/4/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by EnlightenUp
In any event I hope that I have helped to arouse some memory or steer you in the direction that will give you a greater understanding. Keep us posted on what you are comfortable sharing. BTW, what do you make of the Aztec conection if any?

Originally posted by kshaund
If you can find more on the Merovingian/Thaumaturge Kings that would be awesome - I've looked a few times but not too seriously and found information on them was very scant at best.

Didn't even have to look, it found me! There is a reference to them or rather to Thaumaturgy in the book that I am currently reading.

Thaumaturgy is the power to heal. There was a reference to the curing of Scrofula by the Merovingian Kings in one of the google books that I linked to but I didn't make the connection initially.

In the Middle Ages it was believed that "royal touch", the touch of the sovereign of England or France, could cure the disease. Scrofula was therefore also known as the King's Evil. The kings were thought to have received this power due to their descent from Edward the Confessor, who, according to some legends, received it from Saint Remigius. From 1633, the Book of Common Prayer of the Anglican Church contained a ceremony for this, and it was traditional for the monarch (king or queen) to present to the touched person a coin — usually an Angel, a gold coin the value of which varied from about 6 shillings to about 10 shillings. King Henry IV of France is reported as often touching and healing as many as 1,500 individuals at a time.

Queen Anne touched the infant (later Doctor) Samuel Johnson in 1712[1], but King George I put an end to the practice as being "too Catholic." The kings of France continued the custom until Louis XV stopped it in the 1700s, though it was briefly revived to universal derision in 1825.

In 1768 the Englishman John Morley produced a handbook "Essay on the nature and cure of scrophulous disorders, commonly called the King's Evil". The book starts by listing the typical symptoms and indications of how far the disease had progressed. It then goes into detail with a number of case studies, describing the specific case of the patient, the various treatments used and their effectiveness. The forty-second edition was printed in 1824.

In 1924, French historian Marc Bloch wrote a book on the history of the royal touch: The royal touch: sacred monarchy and scrofula in England and France (original in French).

en.wikipedia.org...

In the middle ages you have a growing conflict between the warrior kings and christianity. Both assumed the mantel of 'magician', both had 'supernatural powers' and or the ability to create the illusion of them. The peasants or more likely tribal groups, soon to be peasants, were caught in this power struggle. It appears to me, that the evolution of 'good' and 'evil', black and white magic was a demonstration of one group wishing to overcome the other in influence. Don't listen to him, you'll go to hell and the such like.

Both christians and Merovingians performed miracles to win hearts and minds. The relationship between the Merovingians and the Roman Church developed through their mutual desire to rid themselves of the competition, I would gather that that would include both the pre-Roman Christian magicians and the Pagan Shaman (as that is what they did, over several centuries).

Many of the Merovingian Kings were made into saints on the basis of the miracles that they performed, and it seems that the main one was their ability to cure Scrofula or the King's Evil as it was then known.

The literal meaning of Thaumaturgy, is that it is something created by magic. Their claims to be descendants of the Salic Franks and to be the sons of the Frankish god Merovech tally with the creation of their own legends to out do those of the Shaman and of Christ himself, that other thaumaturgical king.

I was thinking though about the bull thing, the Quinatour and Merovech. Our earliest reference, of any detail, to the first establishment of civilisation is from Catal Hoyuk (Anatolia). It is also here that we see the first signs of the domestication of cattle, in fact that is most likely the whole reason why we first formed settlements. Given this relationship to cattle it seems highly likely that these peoples would have used Psycobilin mushrooms in their ritual magic. It may even be why we sought to keep the cattle in one place, so that we could have a year round supply or more regular supply for this purpose.

I was discussing this with a friend, who mentioned that honey acts as a natural preservative to the mushrooms. I wonder whether this would explain why so many religious communities favoured bee keeping, though they eventually turned it to the production of alcohol, initially, I wonder if it was to keep the mushrooms fresh for use in their magic. Both Psycobilin mushrooms and honey have medicinal benefits, especially to the immune system.



[edit on 5-4-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by lazy1981
BTW, what do you make of the Aztec conection if any?

Just to continue a thought, the Aztecs were a mushroom using culture too.

Literally "god mushroom"—compound of the words teo(tl) (god) and nanácatl (mushroom)—the Psilocybe genus of mushroom has a long history of use within Mesoamerica. The members of the Aztec upper class would often take teonanácatl at festivals and other large gatherings. According to Fernando Alvarado Tezozomoc, it was often a difficult task to procure mushrooms. They were quite costly as well as very difficult to locate, requiring all-night searches.

Both Fray Bernardino de Sahagún and Fray Toribio de Benavente Motolinia describe the use of the mushrooms. The Aztecs would drink chocolate and eat the mushrooms with honey. Those partaking in the mushroom ceremonies would fast before ingesting the sacrament. The act of taking mushrooms is known as monanacahuia, meaning to "mushroom oneself".

At the very first, mushrooms had been served...They ate no more food; they only drank chocolate during the night. And they ate the mushrooms with honey. When the mushrooms took effect on them, then they danced, then they wept. But some, while still in command of their senses, entered and sat there by the house on their seats; they did no more, but only sat there nodding.

en.wikipedia.org...

Not sure of any connection, but thought it worth mentioning.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

it was often a difficult task to procure mushrooms. They were quite costly as well as very difficult to locate, requiring all-night searches.

When the mushrooms took effect on them, then they danced, then they wept. But some, while still in command of their senses, entered and sat there by the house on their seats; they did no more, but only sat there nodding.

I think I may have a few Aztec friends and I didn't even know it.


OK, I couldn't help myself. I know that many native American tribes and cultures used mind altering drugs in order to enter the spirit world. From the Mayans and Aztecs use of mushrooms (what translated more readilly into "divine mushroom") to the northern tribes use of Peyote in the South West US and Mexico (Apache, Navajo, Comanche, and Kiowa) some of which are from much farther north in the plains regions.


I have to ask though I wonder why they (Aztecs) would have eaten honey while they where under the influence of the hallucinogenic mushrooms. It's been my understanding (through friends) that if you take such mind altering mushrooms that anything with a high sugar content such as honey would lessen the effect of it.

I know that the chocolate isn't what it is today. It was a drink to them, and was served unsweetened. If I remember correctly it also held a spiritual significance to the Mesoamerican people.

In any event they didn't use drugs as western society does today, the use was for spiritual purposes. To commune with the spirit world, (that's why Peyote is still legal in the US for the Native Americans, freedom of religion). I laugh when I hear this quote from Quanah Parker the founder of The Native American Church: "The White Man goes into his church and talks about Jesus. The Indian goes into his Tipi and talks with Jesus."

Originally posted by lazy1981
I have to ask though I wonder why they (Aztecs) would have eaten honey while they where under the influence of the hallucinogenic mushrooms. It's been my understanding (through friends) that if you take such mind altering mushrooms that anything with a high sugar content such as honey would lessen the effect of it.

Well....had you paid full attention to my previous post you may have noted that the honey serves as a preservative. As they were hard to find and a valued commodity, they would have been harvested according to availability rather than as and when needed. Presumably, honey was their preservative of choice.

Originally posted by lazy1981
In any event they didn't use drugs as western society does today, the use was for spiritual purposes. To commune with the spirit world, (that's why Peyote is still legal in the US for the Native Americans, freedom of religion).

I am going to have to disagree with you here or rather I think you are making a generalisation. Firstly, I do not class ethnobotanicals as drugs, they are not processed to produce a finished product, they are what they are, a gift of nature and as a friend said to me recently, why is the mushroom psychedelic? Simple, so we will eat it.

The consumption of ethnobotanicals is a relationship between the human and the plant, and a communication. Historically, spirituality is a by-product of ethnogen use, not the other way around. The first use of ethnogens was most likely, and to a certain extent still is, for binding the group. However, if the Native Americans want to use religion as their excuse for taking peyote I'm not going to rain on their parade. And, in truth, that is all religion is, social bonding (gone mad in most cases of the organised religious sorts), so they are right to keep to the tradition. If I was them, I would.

Many in western society do use 'drugs' for the same reasons, as part of social bonding, but since drug taking is illegal, and a 'fringe' activity, they are considered outsiders from wider society, and their 'spirituality' is dismissed or prosecuted (though some ethnobotanicals are legal to use as long as no processing is involved).

I am now concerned that I have led this thread astray and will hastily drop the subject before I have Maban turning in the grave, he didn't hold with such things as I recall...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Well....had you paid full attention to my previous post you may have noted that the honey serves as a preservative.

Well, you discovered my little secret. I skimmed through the last post and missed the portion about your discussion of preserving mushrooms in honey. So there was "a flag on the play" and upon further review, you did indeed make reference to this practice. My screw up.

However, I was asking about the practice of eating honey "with" the mushrooms. Eating it "with" the mushrooms seems to be going out of ones way, where as a mushroom preserved in honey would have honey on it as a byproduct of such a method of preservation and would fall into the are that "you" are getting at.

I had a different question.

Firstly, I do not class ethnobotanicals as drugs, they are not processed to produce a finished product,

Semantics! Merely a difference of opinion. Just as you say it’s only a difference between a finished and raw product. There are a couple of other plants that have a great effect upon the human body that are illegal in their natural state also. It’s still a drug, in my book (I never took a hard stance against drugs, just the abuse of them). So long as a person uses them responsibly and doesn’t cause “any” harm to any other person in “any” way than it’s there business. And so long as they don’t end up as an addict to some hard stuff.

a gift of nature and as a friend said to me recently, why is the mushroom psychedelic? Simple, so we will eat it.

Actually, they are poinson. That's why they are psychedelic, the effect is your body responding to you poisoning yourself. Same as liquor ect.

However, if the Native Americans want to use religion as their excuse for taking peyote I'm not going to rain on their parade.

Nor I. I don't really trouble myself with what other people do or cast jugement. I was just making a point based upon experience.

since drug taking is illegal, and a 'fringe' activity, they are considered outsiders from wider society, and their 'spirituality' is dismissed or prosecuted

They are just a bunch of hypocrites. That's really all it is, if it were booze it wouldn't be an issue, but because it isn't then tyhey are social misfits. All of that's changing now as the 60's and 70's generation is comming into the positions of power. They don't veiw things the same way that the older generation does.

I'll leave it alone now, I just felt entitled to a rebuttal.

Originally posted by lazy1981
However, I was asking about the practice of eating honey "with" the mushrooms. Eating it "with" the mushrooms seems to be going out of ones way, where as a mushroom preserved in honey would have honey on it as a byproduct of such a method of preservation and would fall into the are that "you" are getting at.

Hmm...the honey could be eaten as a by-product of preservation, the mushroom is kept in honey and therefore eaten with honey. It may improve the taste, or it may be for the energy benefits (given that they fast prior to consumption)...I don't know and can only guess, I'm no expert.

Semantics! Merely a difference of opinion. Just as you say it’s only a difference between a finished and raw product. There are a couple of other plants that have a great effect upon the human body that are illegal in their natural state also. It’s still a drug, in my book (I never took a hard stance against drugs, just the abuse of them). So long as a person uses them responsibly and doesn’t cause “any” harm to any other person in “any” way than it’s there business. And so long as they don’t end up as an addict to some hard stuff.

This is a difference of opinion, nothing more, so I will let it lie.

Actually, they are poinson. That's why they are psychedelic, the effect is your body responding to you poisoning yourself. Same as liquor ect.

Psycobilin is not a poison, it is not even toxic to our system, unlike alcohol. There are two exceptional books by Alexander Shulgin, Pikal and Tikal. The subtitle of those books is 'A Chemical love Story', and with some 'drugs' that is what is happening when we ingest them. They meet chemical compounds in our bodies and 'make love'. Even the chocolate that the Aztecs consumed would have done this, releasing feel good endorphins, that we regular chocolate eaters (chocolate that has been refined and it's potency diluted of course) fail to appreciate. Caffeine too was used as an ethogen, just as tobacco was. In fact, if you hadn't eaten in a while, the sugar in the honey would give you something of a rush, especially if sugar is not part of your normal diet.

Because we use those 'drugs' regularly the effect is limited but the chemical compound reaction still occurs. Psycobilin mushrooms would have to be consumed in vast quantites to cause a toxic reaction. A chemical reaction is not the same as a toxic one, obviously the chemical structure of some plants are toxic, that is because it suits their purpose but others are like keys that fit, also for a purpose, with compounds existent in our bodies. Those keys open doors in our perception (to paraphrase Huxley) and convey information to us, information that the user may not always understand (in a world that is removed from nature), this is their purpose, to be consumed by us and to interact with us on a chemical level.

Many ethnobotanist even claim that the use of ethnogens is directly related to the incredibly rapid development of the human brain. In the space of 2-3 million years our brains tripled in size, in evolutionary terms that is phenomenal.

I don't advocate the use of ethnogens, that is the choice of the individual, but I do believe that there is a reason that these plants passed into human useage that goes beyond getting mashed and I do believe that on a chemical level, it is possible that information can be conveyed from the plant to the human.

Originally posted by lazy1981
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

In any event I hope that I have helped to arouse some memory or steer you in the direction that will give you a greater understanding.

Keep us posted on what you are comfortable sharing.

Thank you. I'll probably be working on it awhile. If I update with too high a level of detail it could simply sound like strange, psychotic ramblings. My response to KilgoreTrout was somewhat unedited and in-the-moment and probably raises a big "WTF" flag.

BTW, what do you make of the Aztec conection if any?

Right now I have no particularly strong opinions about it other than to say I'm not surprised that some thread, however slender, can be found connecting many seemingly disparate things.

reply to post by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
One's attempt to grasp at inconceivable concepts has a funny way of doing that.

No complaints, I enjoy the mental exercise, the more my mind is challenged with ‘new’ concepts then the better able it is to meet the next challenge. Onwards and upwards.

Because one tries does not mean one's conceptualization is accurate but may at best be a working model and the true nature may only be approachable asymptotically.

…So, it is a matter of perspective or is it a matter of experience? For you personally or generally, whichever you feel best able to answer, I have no wish to pry too far into your inner workings, or certainly no further than you wish me to.

Under this premise, the word "formless" is a single-word oxymoron.

If the void obtains form through conceptualization, then indeed then conceptualization is the creator of all things and things create conceptualization. This operates on many levels. So, I come back to the addage "thoughts are things" and its converse "things are thoughts" and the veritable explosion of manifestation that results. Sort of the serpent with its own tail in its mouth, excluding the middle. I am that I am-- unity and creation by contradiction?

This I can understand (phew!).
.

I did not see it as a battle for perpetual balance but as a battle for supremacy, a battle in which the winner is not a participant in the race at all-- the overwhelminly fervent grasping at an illusion that precludes understanding.

I like that explanation much better than your previous one, it makes greater sense and has an impact of simple truth.

If McKenna's definition is accurate, that which is within the Shaman's domain are things between "beginning" and "end". With modern cosmology, theories break down as T=0 is approached. An answer is to not make T=0 the beginning but to place another cause preceeding it that being the collision of higher-dimensional membranes which gave rise to what we observe as the big bang. As I see it, that just places another turtle underneath all the others in the proverbial tower.

Leaving aside the Shaman aspect and what they may or may not perceive as beginning and ending (I think you will find that the results are the same, it is only the ability to communicate that effectively that may be lacking, as in the parameters of knowledge and linguistic expression)…what, I think, you are saying is that the void is representative of the point before beginning. For a convenient example, the point before the LHC was switched on in ‘our’ universe or possibly the point at which the finger is poised over the switch…the point between conceptualisation and actualisation. Maybe?

All in all, no human (I assume they're human) musings I have found really seem to truely answer anything fundamental and absolute for me. Even asking "Why is is rather than is not?" begs a cause for something that can have none. Stating that is just "is" and never "wasn't" is a little better but paradoxically only increases the level of frustration I feel. Even stating "there are no absolute answers" is rather oxymoronic too.

In all honesty I do not overly interest myself in the great unanswerables, I am agnostic through choice and a realisation that there are infinite possibilities, which is perhaps why the void doesn’t ‘work’ for me. Also, I was thinking of the Lumen ad-thingy and particularly the association I felt with the ‘cosmic egg’. I struggle to see a void when for me all life/existence/awareness constitutes a continuity, an unending cycle. The void though would denote a beginning. Does there need to be a beginning? Thinking of the snake with it’s tail in it’s mouth. Could the void be a mental manifestation of our ‘need’ for a beginning?

That said, I have spoken to people about this, which combined with your thoughts on the matter, suggest to me that there is at the very least a sense of void and that this void can be met and experienced. I therefore am not closed to the concept, hence my curiousity and questioning, and feel that it must be a part of a cycle or what predates that cycle. I really do not know, but I am okay with that. For now.

Hmm…perhaps it is like when your mind goes blank the moment before you have an idea…that moment of mental stillness as you feel the composite parts come together out of your memory…do you feel ‘promise’ in the void? Is it a pregnant pause?

Perhaps this is simply being honest with one's self?

I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me. -Sir Isaac Newton

I love that quote, I’m going to make a note of that one, it is a great analogy.

Off on a slight tangent...

There is a British physicist, name and institution elude me, who has developed a theory of time as granular. According to her theory, time is made up of grains and that those grains form structures. Each grain holds information that contributes to the whole, removing one grain may not effect the whole, unless it is integral to the structure. If that is the case then the structure collapses and requires re-formation. I like this theory a lot, not least because it allows for the redistribution and reappraisal of ideas and information. Scientific discovery is not linear we are finding. There are simultaneous ‘bursts’ of discovery. While in the west we accept a certain time line of mathematical study (for example), we are also now aware, that discoveries that are attributed to westerners from the 17th and 18th centuries were preceded, often by centuries, in India, China and Persia. Had Newton had access to those discoveries he may have looked out at that ocean, but he was still niggling on the pebbles, like gravity.

We are reaching a point, intellectually and spiritually, as a species, where we know all we need to know about the pebbles and we can now concentrate on the oceans of truth. Firmly I believe that the answers to those questions can only be found through internal expansion, but, for me what is required is that we also share those internal explorations. Consider every persons perception as a grain or pebble that contributes to the whole. As any writer will tell you, there are only so many stories, but there are infinite variations there of. Only by comparing and contrasting can we find common veins, those elements that unite and bind us all, man, woman, animal, plant, mineral… As much as I like the individual Freemasons that I have met on these boards, and without exception I do, I believe that organisations or institutions which keep knowledge and self-discovery within those bounds are detrimental to our development. Secrecy was a necessity, I don’t think it is any more and though I respect the wish of others to join such groups, I think that there is a need to update those systems to make them more inclusive. And, personally, I think only through gender interaction (as a clear example) can we achieve a full awareness of all that ‘is’. I have certainly relied on both genders in my own journey and it is really only through understanding those things about us that are different that I have truly made any real progress in understanding ‘self’.

I didn't really feel it was anything but searching for an understanding.

That is good, because that is what I am attempting to do. I’m not much closer but baby steps. In the meantime, ramblings galore, but if you don’t mind….

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
My response to KilgoreTrout was somewhat unedited and in-the-moment and probably raises a big "WTF" flag.

The best posts, in my opinion, are the ones that are 'in-the-moment'. When we over-intellectualise there is the danger of becoming too self conscious about our inner workings.

Anyway, there was no WTF from me, - although my fine lines and wrinkles are turning into furrows with the effort of concentration involved, so the WTF does come when confronted by a mirror.

Cheers.

Re cthulhu or quinator.
The symbol of the goat’s head in the inverted pentagram is said to be the traditional glyph of medieval European Satanic Witchcraft. Since that time the Sabbatical Goat has become ubiquitous throughout the left hand path of occultism.



The letters around the perimeter, usually displayed in Hebrew consonants in common usage, spells L’V’Th’N: Leviathan. In apocryphal Jewish holy literature it was Lilith, fleeing to the Red Sea, who became identified with the Leviathan, a sea monster, often portrayed as a giant serpent or Draken.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Wow, 84 pages and counting! Sorry that I've been away, I still read the Shards post. I haven't had any time lately, work has picked up, been fixing my new used car (Volvo 850, 6 grand in upgrades and counting), going through a divorce, and taking care of my little girl, so I've had my hands full.

I should have some time this weekend. My heart is here, I think about you guys a lot, so don't think I've faded away.

When I get some time I'll be back as soon as possible.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7431fc501844.jpg[/atsimg]




Miss You Guys,
- Omega

[edit on 8-4-2009 by oconnection]

I just wanted to revisit something that I had posted some time ago than nobody really ever paid much attention to and add anther scenario to it (maybe I'll have better luck this time)?

I can't remember which page Maban had brought this topic to light on so I'll give it a go based on memory.

I remember him saying that this "NIA" had been working on groups of "superhuman soldiers" and that the Shards were tracking and destroying the locations where these experiments were taking place.

I also remember him saying that the Shards and Remnants used Hollywood to spread their "propaganda" (if you will).

I bring this up because I was watching "Max Payne" last night and it struck me as being a bit funny due to the similarities in the plot of the movie and Maban's version. Not an exact match yet very similar. Any thoughts.?

To add to this I have recently seen the movie Knowing (starring: Nicolas cage) and there are also issues in that movie of which I find similarities to Mabans claims of connection to (extra terrestrial rescue or involvement in the least). Sory if I spoil the movie for anyone.

I'm just wondering if there are any of you that see the parallels that I see> Quite frankly I found myself to be very much at peace (only because I felt it to be true) with Maban's statement that Hollywood and was used as outlets (by both sides) to broach subject matter (paraphrasing). I have always felt that you could see what was in store if you could read into some of the shows and movies, you just have to be able to discern between whats relevant and what's not.

So I ask again does anyone have an opinion????


[edit on 8-4-2009 by lazy1981]

reply to post by lazy1981


I believe it's common practice for secretive groups such as the Illuminati (in a broad sense) to use Hollywood and other media outlets to subvert there message. There was a post on this forum (Secret Society forum) about this very topic! Many movies are plane as day but there are others that you have to have some insight in the subject for it be obvious.

I found Knowing interesting because I found it based on many books that have been written in the "New Age" category about children who seem to remember past lives and seem to have spiritual wisdom way beyond there years. Wish I could find the books I have.

As far as super soldiers I can say from what I've seen from my time in the Army and my own research in this subject that it is of extreme interests to the "Military Industrial Complex". I wouldn't say there is a 100% working product, it's been trial and error, hit and miss. It's still a science in it's very early stages.


[edit on 8-4-2009 by oconnection]

I had to get my DL renewed yesterday and they made me give two fingerprints, one from each hand. They wanted the thumb of my left hand and the index of my right; I questioned as to why but the girl was maybe 25 and clueless. Anyway, as I am waiting for the processing, another customer is being fingerprinted, and oddly, the employee asked for the index of both hands (no thumb print for this person). This is all being done as the employee is seemingly being guided from some entity on her computer, telling her which prints to get from us.

Soooo, now even if you have never committed a crime, they have your finger prints.

reply to post by oconnection


I've never been in the military so your insight is welcome. I can see how such things would be beneficial to the military, but IMO they are immoral. You already have a soldier willing to fight and die for their country, yet they would also be willing to alter them in order to enhance their fighting abilities and what not. Then there is the argument of "how long until it's no longer a choice." Eventually they will force it upon servicemen and women. After all GI does mean Government Issued and you are no longer in control of your own being.


I just wanted to broach these issues because they didn't get much discussion and I felt that they may be a good topic of discussion.

reply to post by Bombeni


All of this started when society (at large) allowed them to impose this upon the Commercial Drivers. After that tragety in Indiana and the licence for bribes thing with the Governor of IL. people got on a high horse.

And it only got worse after 9/11. See it's ok to impose these laws on "OTHER PEOPLE" (truck drivers) because it makes people feel better and they don't have to go through all the BS and jump through hoops. But when it's you it's a whole other story. Now it's come knocking on the doors of the rest of the populace. Welcome to my world. Wait until they make YOU start paying for the fingerprinting like they make us.

Kind of like the sin taxes that they have come up with (for example) on cigarrets. The taxes cost more than the product itself, but it's ok because it's paying for something for the rest of the people and it makes them feel good.

Just an example. A right trampled anywhere will lead to more rights trampled across the board. MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT DO THEY NEED YOUR FINGERPRINTS FOR, TO DRIVE A CAR??????

reply to post by lazy1981


Dear Lazy,

Good points. Everything with govt. is upside down. It is supposed to be a govt. of, by and for the people, but now it's a govt. of, by and for the govt. We see the festered scab of govt. coming to a head now, and maybe just maybe if God hasn't decided to put a stop to all the madness, we can take back our govt. and things will right themselves. That isn't the plan of the NWO, they don't have ENOUGH power as far as they are concerned. But they have a fight on their hands, I am sure they know that. It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

reply to post by lazy1981


Some things come to mind:

1) Too many cooks spoil the broth - Proverb

2) Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Something I noticed when I was a wee lad and that I have reiterated many times in other places is many see a free society as an opportunity for the average person to have a shot at being the king rather than authority being locked-in by inheritance. That is social mobility. That is the actual indoctrination.

As such, from democracies to oppressive dictatorships to the NWO and the fear of being controlled by it, subject to another's whim, I'd say the governments of the world generally represent the citizens of earth quite well. Everyone should reflect upon what they see when their true likeness is manifested in the material realm. The NWO is a creation of everyone's fears whether it is "objectively real" or not.


More strange words came to me trying to sleep so I wrote them down. They make no sense to me at this time but you guys seem to like this stuff. More reptilians (what's gives with that?).

The red-faced dragon of life is passing
The perennial serpent has its way





[edit on 4/10/2009 by EnlightenUp]