Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Indeed. Very wise words.

We have a saying:

"If you give a schoolboy the answer; how will he ever learn?"

- Maban

Originally posted by Maban
If you are referring to the Enlightened Ones, then no. Such a discussion is solely reserved for U2U's only, just as a kind clarification.

Sorry, it was in reference to the owl question. (I'll U2U you as soon as I can.)

Firstly, we are not affiliated nor associated with the Bohemian Grove whatsoever, to be clear. I do know, that the Owl symbolizes for some: awareness, a silent watcher, and immense but concealed power. There are also some spiritual undertones, but I am unaware of their details. We have not overly concerned ourselves with his group given that they specifically pose little threat. It is more of a "good ole' boys club, than a "true" secret society.

Map of Washington DC? I will infer you are referring to the street layout? I honestly possess little knowledge of such origins/details. Bare in mind the Shards first arrived in the US circa 1900's, well after DC was born. Perhaps a Mason will be happy to help, they after all built/designed much of it.
...
Unfortunately I am not versed much in Greek mythology, so perhaps you can elaborate, or expand your question to more common terms.

I was referring to the owl as a symbol of Athena and Wisdom--that's all. I was hoping you had some idea of what this stuff truly meant. What you said is helpful though, thank you.

I don't really consider Bohemian Grove especially interesting either, but when people start spotting little owls on their dollar bills, this symbol must be important to someone.

Masons usually seem to be able to only confirm that they have no knowledge about any of this--but I would be happy to have any of the Masons here to give their insights.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Eleleth]

Maban

I was watching Die Hard the other night, I have a weakness for Bruce Willis of long standing, anyhow, I found it amusing (though not as amused as I was with the Valkyrie trailer, that has me in stitches!), retrospectively, and it got my mind to tinkering.

Putting the heroics of the lovely Mr Willis aside for the moment, the premise of Die Hard is criminals posing as terrorists in order to conceal a major heist, without regard to human life, in fact that acts as distraction, collateral damage in their view. And, more fundamentally, conceals all evidence of the robbery. It is only a small mental bounce to then wonder if those who received intelligence that terrorists were going to target the World Trade Centre, if they were criminally minded and had sufficient resources, may have seen it as an opportunity to carry out such a heist. Such organisations as the CIA or NIA for example. I know that this theory has been put forward before.

My question therefore is, have you, through your contacts, affiliated organistations, and of course across the Shards themselves, heard of any of that gold ever turning up?

[edit on 9-1-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I see you have been talking to certain persons of interest. In reference to the gold I must decline a comment. I am unwilling to discuss the findings of an ongoing investigation, of this particular nature. If you wish a better explanation, I may be able to accommodate you via U2U.

- Maban

reply to post by Maban


That's not fair, I want to know also! Now both of you have stirred up an old suspicion. Play nice. I wanna know!

reply to post by Maban


Maban, I agree with lazy1981 above.
I realize that you are tactically occupied and, realizing that, appreciate
your detailed, focused posts. To save efforts on your side, could you
post the info publicly? Waiting for U2U can turn into a long-lasting experience,
especially when it concerned 144,000...

Reading your posts it seems that you have so much more to say.
I'd encourage you to do exactly that. In the best case, majority will
consider you a talented fiction writer, in the worst case - they will
bore to death and switch to MTV. What do you have to lose?
Pardon me for being blunt but I for one want more disclosure if that
is at all possible, whether within ATS framework, or outside of one.

For the record, I have not U2Ud Maban, as I am reasonably happy to mind my own business. As for who I have and haven't been talking to, I am afraid that has gone over my head, either too cryptic or based upon some presumption of Maban's part. I did watch Die Hard the other night (Wednesday in fact, on UK terrestrial TV) and the question did arise purely from that viewing. I may be a bit thick, that is perfectly feasible, but either way I have gained far more than I have ever given to this thread. Whoever or whatever Maban is or isn't cannot alter that, and that, for the time being at least, is good enough for me.

Que sera, sera.

reply to post by lazy1981

reply to post by eventHorizon

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I typically do not like to make "assumptions," or for that matter of fact "suppositions." As of right now this topic is a part of an ongoing investigation. An investigation which has been temporarily suspended due to the recent events and extenuating circumstances which have transpired within the Shards.

Currently individuals within and beyond the Shards are investigating this topic from multiple aspects/perspectives/approaches. Given that, not all information has been accumulated/analyzed, and therefore I cannot make any definitive/concise/precise statements regarding this issue. However, I can offer my honest opinion and understanding of this event.

There were large quantities of gold stored within the World Trade Center, gold which was hastily removed the day of 9/11. I believe this to be a main source of "wreaking havoc," on that day. Contacts and gained information, points to both FBI and NSA agents whom were tasked with removing this gold via commercial semi tractor-trailer, this action yielded several "problematic" outcomes in fulfilling their duties.

The first problem was carrying out this operation securely and without the public's general knowledge. After the initial strike on the Northern Tower field agents realize that they need to prevent civilians from flooding the streets (closing off their convoy's escape route) and potentially witnessing/exposing what they are doing. So, it is ordered for all employees to return to their places work to prevent this from occurring.

Once the Southern Tower was impacted, the agent in charge ordered the convoy to start rolling leaving what gold still remained. They began to negotiate the streets as evacuees and emergency response units surrounded the now two burning buildings. After evading media and emergency response crews they later see the large debris columns rising from downtown Manhattan as both towers collapse.

After the devastation, cleanup began. The building's remains were placed onto naval vessels and shipped to China, where they are melted down and scrapped. Here the metal was scrapped, however the remaining gold was then processed out and regained in China. At which point it becomes very unclear what becomes of it, but financial reports point to it being invested in Chinese Manufacturing companies, which manufacture and produce a bulk of the US's products, as well as international companies. Thereby, "doubling" their invested money.

Meanwhile the USG then declares the gold a loss and ideally collects "insurance," collateral from various domestic (and a few foreign insurance agencies/banks) thereby allegedly "recovering" the loss, where in reality they "doubled" their money again via insurance fraud. If the payment methodologies and insurer names are indeed accurate, these large discrete "payouts" would then slowly "weaken" both domestic bank and insurance institutions thereby reducing the elasticity and robustness of the domestic economy. Incorporating corruption, greed, and the sub-prime home loan mortgages; you have effectively created a sufficient catalyst to begin an economic collapse.

Meanwhile, the USG utilizes this money on both foreign petroleum and more explicitly defense expenditures, which rapidly evaporate any gained earnings. After the financial meltdown begins, their initial investment into Chinese Manufacturing companies rapidly declines as US product lines stop or close altogether. In addition, to repeal or "recollect" this investment would require acknowledging its existence, which woudl then promote inquiry into its origin, and eventual hasten threats by the Chinese to withdraw their 5+ Billion in our economy as a retaliation; in effect successfully sealing our fate and plunging a recession into a nearly unrecoverable depression.

Lastly, because of the international economic interdependence and interrelations, the effects of our hegemonic economy drags down the global economy and effectively slows or even stops the gears of global commerce. This then effectively leaves the USG powerless to effectively correct or reverse the problem without major domestic and international actions. Meanwhile the USG continues to plunge itself into even greater debt at an even faster rate paying out "bailouts," maintaining defense expenditures, and other "nominal" governmental expenditures.

Regardless of the attack's details, its aftermath far outreached its initial impact. If our theory holds, it could offer an accurate and detailed understanding of what caused the numerous "black swan" events within the past few years, placing them into one linear cause-effect time line which better outlines, details, and identifies key initiators and instigators in this entire situation. I will not, nor cannot go into further detail simply because it is indeed and ongoing investigation and I/we are unwilling to reveal sources, and detailed information. Such dissemination may alert adversaries or guilty parties involved, thereby inhibiting, or severely hampering our investigation, as well as associated pro and counteractions to these events.

- Maban

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Maban]

reply to post by eventHorizon

Reading your posts it seems that you have so much more to say.
I'd encourage you to do exactly that. In the best case, majority will
consider you a talented fiction writer, in the worst case - they will
bore to death and switch to MTV. What do you have to lose?
Pardon me for being blunt but I for one want more disclosure if that
is at all possible, whether within ATS framework, or outside of one.

I prefer to veer away from straight dissemination. My issue is that there is much which I "could" talk about, but little that I "should." The issue is straight dissemination often includes sensitive or secure information, often unintentionally or naturally included. Often once this information is removed the picture become hazy and unclear, destroying the dissemination altogether. Whenst I created this thread, I required several revisions of the initial post to avoid such issues, yet still present a clear concise image. Even then, in retrospect, there is much I woudl have done differently. Often infuriating, or unintentionally belittling ATS'ers during this process of internal heckling to provide the requested information, while still remaining within my sworn bounds.

When questions are directly proposed, I can more easily cater my responses as to not give away this information, while still presenting an amicable and clear response. Posed questions prevents (or at least limits) unintentional dissemination into the public pervue while allowing me to concentrate on as many discernible details as possible, then attempting to tackle and essentially censor large quantities of data.

- Maban

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

For the record, I have not U2Ud Maban, as I am reasonably happy to mind my own business.

Indeed KilgoreTrout has not. I appreciate your discretion and reserve, however it seems that it is not equally felt by your fellow ATS confederates.

In the spirit of understanding, and employing my word and sincerity to its limits, I have provided the above as a explanation to the best of my abilities to questions above. I do not wish a stranglehold on information, simply a wise active discretion upon it.

As for who I have and haven't been talking to, I am afraid that has gone over my head, either too cryptic or based upon some presumption of Maban's part.

I was less a presumption, and more a sort of passive test. Had you or other involved parties answered differently, the above account, and concurrent responses would have been of a different nature altogether. Therefore, disregard my previous address to you. It should bare no bearing on our dialogue.

- Maban

This is a fascinating thread, maban, thank you for posting. I have no idea whether this is true, or not..if it's not, you've got a hell of a script there, take it from someone who works in the entertainment industry. I can't prove or disprove what you say on this board, so I'll accept it as truth for now. My question: what is the first step to take, if one wants to become part of a shard, to walk the path you walk? For the sake of argument, assume I'm someone qualified to do so..just curious as to what you feel is necessary.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by dragonseeker]

Edit: Long thread,but, I found your response to someone with the same question:

My questions is, how does one become member of the Illuminati or your specific shard?
A: One does not simply join. Many are brought into the orginization by bloodlines, that much is accurate. People outside are brought within typically by businessmen and scientists whom have worked with potential candidates for at least a decade. This process of slow analysis and integration is crucial and imperative. It demonstrates to the Shard their dedication to work, their
values, beliefs, and goals. It gives a basis to analyze many possible candidates without their knowledge. Few ever fully make it into the final ranks of the Shards, many are left as possible candidates and nothing more. To be officially apart of a shard is both an honor and a sacrifice.

I guess the real answer is, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear...well, maban, I do hope you're giving us real information. Much luck in your work. We may yet meet...



[edit on 10-1-2009 by dragonseeker]

Lastly, because of the international economic interdependence and interrelations, the effects of our hegemonic economy drags down the global economy and effectively slows or even stops the gears of global commerce. This then effectively leaves the USG powerless to effectively correct or reverse the problem without major domestic and international actions.

reply to post by Maban



This seems to be alot like a "problem, reaction, solution scenario" in my opinion. Conjured up by the "NWO" types or the "Remnants" as you have labeled them. It would seem that this has been affected in order to speed up a consolidation of power into a world governance. In essence to tear apart the old order of things in the world and instal a "New Order" (i.e. "Order from Chaos") by creating the atmosphere of chaos by which people would allow such a thing (World Gov.) to be possible?

On a side note I'd also like to know what you think of the three "Prophecies of Fatima?" And whether or not you know, and are willing to divulge the third prophecy????

reply to post by lazy1981

This seems to be alot like a "problem, reaction, solution scenario" in my opinion. Conjured up by the "NWO" types or the "Remnants" as you have labeled them. It would seem that this has been affected in order to speed up a consolidation of power into a world governance. In essence to tear apart the old order of things in the world and install a "New Order" (i.e. "Order from Chaos") by creating the atmosphere of chaos by which people would allow such a thing (World Gov.) to be possible?

I will say this, nothing is as simple as it seems. There are far more "things/groups" operating in the shadows than many actually realize. There is in reality, little "clear" nor "cohesive" dealings for such a move, more so a mass migration due to infighting and subterfuge. Few truly "steer" teh world in one direction. It is more of a "nudging" effect by many groups which determine the path. In addition, may things which appear to be "coincidence," are not, however there are hardly ever "planned." Often this "nudging" creates unintended and unforeseen side effects which drastically change the course of history. Many times, the culmination of natural and interventionist events are counterproductive to many's nefarious goald.

Imagine a worlds events like a river. The effect of water over time changes its course, however occasionally man can alter its path. But, left unchecked, it will often revert to its natural route. Occasionally some attempt to build dams, to control its power and direction, often they are thwarted when the force of mother nature overcomes them, and bursts the dam, bringing about a flood of change. We, are those whom watch and study the river, and whenst the timing right, take upon ourselves the role of "dam breakers." We have found working in conjunction with the "flow," we can accomplish far more good, then attempting to "control," it.

On a side note I'd also like to know what you think of the three "Prophecies of Fatima?" And whether or not you know, and are willing to divulge the third prophecy????

I am aware of them, and honestly think little of them. In addition, I do not know the details of the third, we don't exactly interact with the Vatican as many may believe. Given what I know about eh world religions, I place little stock in such "visions," or "prophecies." We guard and uphold the ideals and wisdom that the Enlightened Ones ennobled us with. To date, they have been far more effective and accurate at predicting global events, than any prophecy, vision, or computer analysis to date has. The issues is in all frankness; the worlds religions have been tainted in some way, shape, or form throughout the ages; with their original meanings diluted and altered beyond any original semblance.

I am sure that there will be plenty to disagree with me, but this is a reality few wish to actually face; a reality humanity must recognize to survive.

- Maban

Originally posted by Maban
You may, but the populous in whole most likely could not. Bear in mind many are happy and content with their own lives. Bothersome information about eh world which may shift or alter that would be seen as undesirable in all most likelihood.

But what about the millions of people who demand a cleaner government, the countless millions who want to see a UFO, who believe there is an alien-government conspiracy? It's all lies being used to control us like The Matrix, is that what we should want? As long as we keep thinking we can live in that mentality of servitude, we will remain this way. Open the mind and expose it, and we could probably break their hold. You need all the help you can get if their influence is as reaching as you say.

They operate a little like us, influencing events from the background. They utilize global/domestic agencies and organization to do their work. Given that their actions are so "spread out" and diversified, many things simply go unnoticed. If we could track every action in the world, even then it would be difficult. We do know that they are behind key projects/programs; especially within the USG.

Kinda like the Octopus Danny Casolaro spoke on. You know as well as I do there are many dead bodies because of these villains, and because of the Internet, what may have worked decades ago has only made martyrs of those who were killed while searching for the truth and justice because now others, especially here on ATS, now believe in an NWO.

The US gov't's NWO-esque programs are creepy to put it frankly, and it's putting everyone in danger. I was always told to follow through for justice and truth, many in my family fought for this country. I see Burma, China, North Korea, Iraq, and I know how we help those regimes in some ways and it pisses me off. Pardon my language.

I apologize, but I fail to successfully follow you analogy. Perhaps rephrasing or restructuring it may help me better understand your meaning.

What I'm saying is that the NWO is like an abusive spouse, using its authority over the little woman (us) and beating us and gloating and getting away with it. Stuck with battered wife syndrome and thinking you have nowhere else to go, you fear you have to put up with this abuse even when you hate the pain. You lie to yourself that your spouse loves you much like how many think the politicians care when they never return emails or never fulfill their promses, or all the money disappears in their administration.

Campaigns are just spending parties and popularity contests to sling mud with no talk, yet everyone THINKS "oh, they're of that party, so they're like me". Neither relationship is healthy. You could walk away from the spouse finally, but yet it would be scary at first because you think you need them but then you realize you're better off. Same here, once you're out of the NWO and see the lies and hypocrisy, everything changes. I've talked with many friends and shown them the history of Skull and bones, Zapata Oil, etc. When they were once strong believers of the government, they have come to see it for what it is-a corrupt front for a international web of crime and deceit.

Originally posted by Darky6K

But what about the millions of people who demand a cleaner government, the countless millions who want to see a UFO, who believe there is an alien-government conspiracy? It's all lies being used to control us like The Matrix, is that what we should want? As long as we keep thinking we can live in that mentality of servitude, we will remain this way. Open the mind and expose it, and we could probably break their hold. You need all the help you can get if their influence is as reaching as you say.

Sometimes, the best things in life; are worth waiting for. Although I know this gives you little comfort or solace, I will say this. Many things are in motion now, and the next 100 years are going to be "interesting" to say the least. We will see a rapid onset of changes and advancements unprecedented in all of human history. Amidst these changes and advancements; unions and divisions will be forged, as well as broken. Peoples will rise and fall. But, at the end of it, an unveiling is inevitable. Mankind will be forced to stand as one, in a world united, or a world broken. At this point a great revelation will ensue, and a bright future will emerge from the unknown. All will be answered, and all understood. We; the Illuminons know this, we have been entrusted with this knowledge to safeguard humanity to the end of this dark era. However, we know the inevitable outcome, but we know not when or how ti will fully come to pass. We can only guess and infer from known quantities and facts, what is just beyond the horizon.

It is like watching a growing storm in the distance. We may not know its shape or power, but we know it exists, and know too that it will pass in time. Storms can destroy, but they can also unite. Storms also are not entities of darkness or destruction, but catalysts of change. Challenges and hardships force a reluctant and complacent populous to react, adapt, innovate, and overcome. To improve themselves and their surroundings to cope and survive; this is the way of nature, this is the way it has been for billions of years.

We stand as the silent and illusive sentinels, watching, waiting, and guiding. We silently move against the dark forces in this work to buy humanity time, time to change, time to adapt, and time to prepare itself for the coming changes, and coming hardships. No matter the future, no matter the hardships, humanity will prevail, that is our charge. And whenst humanity does, it will be stronger and more united than ever before, and from it anew era will emerge.

Until then we work, silently, and swiftly to ensure what need be done is complete before the time come round, before the unveiling of all is upon the world.

Kinda like the Octopus Danny Casolaro spoke on. You know as well as I do there are many dead bodies because of these villains, and because of the Internet, what may have worked decades ago has only made martyrs of those who were killed while searching for the truth and justice because now others, especially here on ATS, now believe in an NWO.

In the years to come, "truth," and "justice" are inconsequential. Those whom commit atrocities and injustices will fall victim to their own misdeeds. Once hidden truths unveiled, will only breed further curiosities, and further lead humanity to a greater future than imagined. Humanity is entering times when powers greater than any man or organization are awakening, and casting their gaze upon us, and our futures. Time will reveal all, and set all misdeeds righted.

The US gov't's NWO-esque programs are creepy to put it frankly, and it's putting everyone in danger. I was always told to follow through for justice and truth, many in my family fought for this country. I see Burma, China, North Korea, Iraq, and I know how we help those regimes in some ways and it pisses me off. Pardon my language.

I understand your bitter frustration and fervid anger, it is felt by all Illuminons too. However we leaven those feelings with the knowledge that events have been put into motion, which will purge these individuals from our world forever. Often the greatest forces are seldom seen or heard, until they come crashing down like a wave of water.

What I'm saying is that the NWO is like an abusive spouse, using its authority over the little woman (us) and beating us and gloating and getting away with it. Stuck with battered wife syndrome and thinking you have nowhere else to go, you fear you have to put up with this abuse even when you hate the pain. You lie to yourself that your spouse loves you much like how many think the politicians care when they never return emails or never fulfill their promses, or all the money disappears in their administration.

Campaigns are just spending parties and popularity contests to sling mud with no talk, yet everyone THINKS "oh, they're of that party, so they're like me". Neither relationship is healthy. You could walk away from the spouse finally, but yet it would be scary at first because you think you need them but then you realize you're better off. Same here, once you're out of the NWO and see the lies and hypocrisy, everything changes. I've talked with many friends and shown them the history of Skull and bones, Zapata Oil, etc. When they were once strong believers of the government, they have come to see it for what it is-a corrupt front for a international web of crime and deceit.

Often the forces such organizations create, can become greater than they are able to control. Such forces then follow the laws of nature, and not the commands of their masters. Global complacency is an issue, but there comes a time when such large forces can no longer go unrecognized. At this point, these organizations will be thrust into the light, either by their lust for power, or their disparity for survival. Either way, they shall become known when the times is right, when the stage is set, and forces rightly aligned.

- Maban

Maban -

What is the motivating factor behind the Remnants? Why are they so hell-bent to undo your work?

I can only assume they stand to gain something. Are they organized in any way or are they just disorganized cells?

Thinking about it, though, perhaps they stand to *lose* something at the hands of the Shards. Maybe power, influence? etc. Surely they understand that it's a losing proposition.

Thanks, and I understand if you are unable to answer everything.

I will say this, nothing is as simple as it seems. There are far more "things/groups" operating in the shadows than many actually realize. There is in reality, little "clear" nor "cohesive" dealings for such a move, more so a mass migration due to infighting and subterfuge.

I have to say, I have the strange feeling that you are trying to spin me. This is not your usual sort of response.........

In addition, may things which appear to be "coincidence," are not, however there are hardly ever "planned."

reply to post by Maban


I am no believer in, "coincidence." Either things are planned, or they happen for a reason.

We, are those whom watch and study the river, and whenst the timing right, take upon ourselves the role of "dam breakers." We have found working in conjunction with the "flow," we can accomplish far more good, then attempting to "control," it.

I understand this idea completely, yet I wonder why you lump the "Shards" into my postulation of a NWO possibly linked to the Remnants? I was under the impresion that they were two separate entities. Why do you say, "we?" I ask in all sincerity.

In any event I can see how any group with the power to affect world affairs would, "nudge" and not, "control" as you put it. However, I do feel that one side with nefarious purposes WOULD use the problem, reaction, solution method in order to spoon feed the populace their way of controling things. Create the chaos needed in order to propose your sense of order, that the people will crave it so. Just give that some thought, you seem to be seeing their tactics through your eyes (if you follow).

with their original meanings diluted and altered beyond any original semblance.

I wouldn't say, "original MEANINGS." Maybe the original MESSAGES have gotten distorted in my opinion.

I am sure that there will be plenty to disagree with me

I take no issue with a man or woman that stands on their principles and beliefs. Basically what they hold to be true. So long as they do it with candor, taste, and respect for others as they share what is true to their mind. Even if it is in direct conflict with my beliefs. It is only those that are luke warm and have no principles of any sort, that trample upon others reality for their own sense of superiority that I take issue with.




[edit on 12-1-2009 by lazy1981]

I found an interesting quote on a software website. As a database administrator it sounds pretty cool, but as a conspiracy theorist it seems like a very good metaphor for what we are discussing in the thread:

Database Sharding is a new concept in horizontally database partitioning, not just across disks, but across servers. Many major online service providers, most notably Google, eBay, Wikipedia, and Flickr have developed in-house implementations of this architecture to meet database application performance and scalability requirements.

...

When a database is "sharded", it is essentially broken down into multiple smaller databases across multiple (typically low-cost commodity) servers, each yielding far greater performance through this highly distributed model. In addition to delivering better performance, individual "shards" (or database "chunks") can be managed much more easily, including replication, fault tolerance, and cross-data center reliability.

Interesting no?

reply to post by emsed1


Apologies for my delay.

Originally posted by emsed1
What is the motivating factor behind the Remnants? Why are they so hell-bent to undo your work?

Initially it was belief, now it has diversified to include that, and in addition greed for money and power.

I can only assume they stand to gain something. Are they organized in any way or are they just disorganized cells?

Some have formed coalitions, and alliances, others create infighting amongst others. They usurp others, combine, fracture, ally, then betray. Keeping track of "actual" Remnants, is akin to keeping track of a soap opera.

Thinking about it, though, perhaps they stand to *lose* something at the hands of the Shards. Maybe power, influence? etc. Surely they understand that it's a losing proposition.

Control namely, they fear if they loose control then both their "purpose" and their gained wealth/power will too fade.

- Maban

reply to post by lazy1981

Maban:
I will say this, nothing is as simple as it seems. There are far more "things/groups" operating in the shadows than many actually realize. There is in reality, little "clear" nor "cohesive" dealings for such a move, more so a mass migration due to infighting and subterfuge.

Lazy1981
I have to say, I have the strange feeling that you are trying to spin me. This is not your usual sort of response.........

On the contrary, I mean no such thing. Many ATS'ers as well as CT'ers think that most "conspiracies" and or "collaborations" can be solved with one all encompassing theory and/or plan. When in reality there are a multitude of them, all vying for power and control. A quaint essential reason why no conspiracy theory can truly be proven true, is the fact that other events are transpiring from other "plans/theories" which bleed through to past/current/future events, convolouting what is actually transpiring. Two events which occur within close proximity (physically or chronological) may in fact be of totally separate plans/theories.

Maban:
In addition, may things which appear to be "coincidence," are not, however there are hardly ever "planned."

Lazy1981:
I am no believer in, "coincidence." Either things are planned, or they happen for a reason.

True. But the question you must ask yourself is; are those whom "plan" such things, every expect some of these outcomes produced? In my experience, a "wild card" situation (black swan event) can occur sometimes by shear dumb luck.

Maban:
We, are those whom watch and study the river, and whenst the timing right, take upon ourselves the role of "dam breakers." We have found working in conjunction with the "flow," we can accomplish far more good, then attempting to "control," it.

Laxy1981:
I understand this idea completely, yet I wonder why you lump the "Shards" into my postulation of a NWO possibly linked to the Remnants? I was under the impresion that they were two separate entities. Why do you say, "we?" I ask in all sincerity.

My apologies, habitual defensiveness. Often this is the assumption so I automatically (now) define a separation of the two, given we are so different. Although my "lumping": is due to the fact that we do indeed share certain similarities (at least originally, after the splintering) where we retained certain similar traits/aspects which are indifferent in nature, such as how we "nudge" global events, although even now that similarity seems to be dissipating that the Remnants have taken a "head-on" approach to manipulating the world.

Lazy1981:
In any event I can see how any group with the power to affect world affairs would, "nudge" and not, "control" as you put it. However, I do feel that one side with nefarious purposes WOULD use the problem, reaction, solution method in order to spoon feed the populace their way of controlling things. Create the chaos needed in order to propose your sense of order, that the people will crave it so. Just give that some thought, you seem to be seeing their tactics through your eyes (if you follow).

Oh no, I well understand you. Create a water shortage so the populous buys only from you, the sole supplier. Believe me this has been an old model, and has been used by business and Remnant alike.

Maban:
With their original meanings diluted and altered beyond any original semblance.

Lazy:1981:
I wouldn't say, "original MEANINGS." Maybe the original MESSAGES have gotten distorted in my opinion.

You are entitled to your own opinion, however I stand by my word.

Maban:
I am sure that there will be plenty to disagree with me

Lazy1981:
I take no issue with a man or woman that stands on their principles and beliefs. Basically what they hold to be true. So long as they do it with candor, taste, and respect for others as they share what is true to their mind. Even if it is in direct conflict with my beliefs. It is only those that are luke warm and have no principles of any sort, that trample upon others reality for their own sense of superiority that I take issue with.

Me as well... Me as well...

- Maban

[edit on 13-1-2009 by Maban]