Why the Giants/ Nephilim accounts may hold some truth

Originally posted by Absence of Self
Whereas I don't know about the Nephilim - Angel - Alien connection there are good reasons to believe the hypothesis of historical gigantism may be more factual than not.

There is a reasonably impressive body of research which may be considered to act in support of the idea based upon the interpretation of historical atmospheric composition and its corresponding Oxygen partial pressure.

Basically : High Oxygen partial pressure = Monsters.

If you wish you may check these documents out and connect the appropriate dots.

Atmospheric oxygen and the evolution of insect gigantism

Amphipod gigantism dictated by oxygen availability?

(PDF) Increase in tracheal investment with beetle size supports hypothesis of oxygen limitation on insect gigantism

Reduced oxygen at high altitude limits maximum size

Atmospheric Oxygen, Giant Paleozoic Insects and the evolution of Aerial Locomotor performance


Have Fun.

Absence.

Although it's true that in our remote past, the earth had a higher oxygen content allowing for larger insects, arachnids, etc.. I believe the time frame would be very pre human. You might want to look at that a bit closer to match up time frame and appearance of homo-sapiens in the time line.

I would agree with most of you people but I honestly believe that the truth is somewhere between.
I would like to have an answer first from Crabmeat where did he read (in the Greek Bible) that the Nephilim was translated into giants. I'm from Greece and I own a Bible (even though I haven't read it) so I would like to check it and postit here.
Even if I believe in Darwin's theory, in the back of my head I admit the possibility that an alien species "planted" us (by us I don't meen human but life) in this planet in order to watch the advance that we might have. Naturally I don't have any evidence of it but since there is no evidence of the opposite yet i have to admit that there is a possibility.
I certenly agree with Nola213 (at last, someone is saying something different) that they don't really have to be carbon based (humans know only 5% of the "universe physics" after all). But if for any reason alien DNA is somehow "compatible" with human DNA then THEY or even US (if we had an alien DNA piece in a bottle) could create a hybrid, wouldn't know if it would be viable though. But in the other hand it just might be. If the "timing" and the "circumstances" are right.
Behind any myth it might be a small piece of truth. This is what we call "myth-istory". In other words, I have to see "something" in order to exaggerate in the future generations about it. The mythology about minotaur or even god panas might have a small pice of truth behind. Minotaur was the result of a human (even in the form of a cow as mythology states) and a bull. God panas was half goat (upper half had lots of hair as a goat and the head of the goat only with human inteligence and language, all other parts like hands and torso human) and bottom half exactly like a goat but could stand and run like a human. Unfortunately, bestiality was (and still is) popular (please ATS don't remove this post ). So it just MIGHT be some truth. Also Greek mythology refers to the TITANS which were enormous considering the size of the common human and the ATLANTES (I don't know the exact English words, those who lived in ATLANDIS. I thing that ATLAS one of the Titans "the one that was holding earth with his hands" created Atlandis and the inhabitants. I don't remember the complete mythology though). My point, as I stated above, is that you might have to see something in order to exaggerate about it.
I saw in a documentary last month that earths conditions, several thousand years ago, could provide the appropriate conditions for several spieces to grow large.
As for the Nephilim there might be an Alien species here on Earth that remain hidden "somehow" or a human-alien hubrid. I've heard some people stating that they are giants and some other stating that they have the size of a human (i've also heard that they have wings. Is this possible?). But I honestly believe that they don't have to do with religion.
In my opinion, humans have so much more to learn about other planets, nature, Alien life forms (even in the state of a single protein) even our planet and very soon (2-3 centuries) the human history will be rewriten for the very beginning.

Originally posted by Crabmeat
the epic of gilgamesh tells it's readers that an species of greater intelligence spliced their DNA with that of many animals of earth...when they mixed it with chimp dna they came up with us. boom.

Wait...what? Where in the world does the Epic of Gilgamesh say that?

Genesis 6

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the Sons of God saw the Daughters of men that they were fair and they took the wives of all which they chose

‘Sons of God’ ? Bene HaElohim – angels

‘Bene HaElohim’ is a term that’s always used direct creation of god, Adam was a direct creation of god, you and I in the natural are not according to the bible we are sons of Adam

“Daughters of men” in Hebrew – Benoth Adam – daughters of Adam

In the Old Testament this term in Hebrew in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7 is always used of angles because they are a direct creation of god – in the new testament Luke 20:36.

Verse 4 of Genesis 6

There were Nephilim in the earth in those days and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and then bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

What this verse seems to indicate is that these Nephilim were offspring of a strange union. ‘The sons of God’ these are Angels according to Hebrew “came in unto the daughters of men” – daughters of Adam, this is just not Cane, Seth or any of that, and ‘they bare children to them’ it’s those children that are the Nephilim

‘Nephilim’ – 'the causers of others to fall’

Now what the passage portrays is fallen angels, these are not the good guys, when Satan fell a third of the angles fell with him not all of them but a group of them apparently chose to try to create a hybrid race. Angels can’t multiply they are eternal, the reproduction is a process for mortals. At the same time Satan’s got a problem a third of the angles fell with him so he’s got a deficiency of 2 to 1 in the war that comes up, he’s got to find a way to strengthen himself.

Now the offspring or Nephilim they are also called the HaGibborim ‘the mighty ones’

Now where the confusion starts is when this Hebrew passage was translated into Greek in Septuagint, the word they used for the Nephilim was ‘gigantes.’ It sounds like giants and it turns out they were giants but that’s not what the word means, Gigantes comes from Gigas – ‘earth-born’ So in Hebrew they are called the fallen ones and in Greek they’re called earth-born.

Verse 9 of Genesis 6

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with god

And ‘perfect in his generations’ perfect in Hebrew is tamiym – ‘without blemish, sound, healthful, without spot, unimpaired’ What that verse seems to indicate is that Noah’s genealogy was unblemished, this comes on right after the verses that talk about these fallen angels that have created a hybrid but Noah was unblemished in his generations and that’s one of the reasons that god chose Noah and his three sons and four wives to start over again. The purpose of the flood was because the genealogy of man was imperfect due to the Nephilim hybrids

reply to post by andre18


Good post on the topic, also:

Matthew 24:37

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Daniel 2:42-43 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Both of these verses are commenting on the end times also. For those who are of the belief that "aliens" intervened in man's development, they that interfered may have been here from the beginning-and are still here.

Genesis 6:4 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Just a little something to throw into the discussion.

Quite simply I think the OP is on to something that makes sense.

You see, even I, a so called "creationist" (but i dont believe in young earth or anything like that, and i believe evolution does exist and work as we know it), believe that the humanoid form, by this I mean two arms, two legs, a head, walking upright, is the pinnacle of evolution, that any pre-cursor species give enough time to evolve would go into a humanoid form, and millions of years later, they'd be walking upright etc.

So then .. you could have little humanoids, big humanoids, reptilian based humanoids, mammal based humanoids, amphibian base humanoids, bird based humanoids, fish based humanoids .. insect based humanoids, the list continues. Now here is my point.. perhaps humanoid beings, even if evolved from two different types of pre-cursor species families, are close enough to each other genetically due to their humanoid form that certain forms of manual interbreeding may be possible, we really do not know. Maybe only certain kinds can reproduce with certain other kinds of alien humanoids, same for the males and females.

Now if you take it to the bio-engineering level, where you have DNA and you can synthesize entire living organisms base on a DNA code to replicate their body structure and form with perfectly, over and over again, things become much hazier. What I mean is, on this level .. even two humanoid beings that are incompatible in manual interbreeding could still be "spliced" into a hybrid being and basically .. made in a test tube, or built from the DNA. Fallen Angels "coming into" the daughters of Man does not necessarily mean the Fallen Angels lived in the human communities, being a part of human life. Nay, they very well could have swooped in during the night and forcibly raped the human women, or used some form of medicine or technology on her that renders her temporarily unable to function .. like a biblical date rape drug. We don't know how that went.

I recall reading in the Book of Enoch(i think..), the Ethiopian version I believe, where Enoch is warned by an angel that his wife is going to bear a child from a Fallen Angel. It goes on to describe how the child was glowing golden when it was born, but quickly grew in size. I don't remember much else, just that in the time period .. this would've been just perhaps a couple hundred years before the biblical "Deluge" is said to have occurred.

It would make sense, if these hybrids did unexpectedly grow to massive sizes, that many would be shunned from the human communities, and forced to live in the wild. These would be the ones described as eating humans, because they'd be ravenous, starving, and completely untrained in anything remotely social or involving communication. Living in the wild as well. Which would also make the whole "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch" thing more believable. For hundreds, even thousands of years, men have reported seeing giant hairy men that looked like giant upright ape men in remote places in the wild. What if these reports were from pre-Deluge accounts of the Giant hybrids? This would mean that not every human being on Earth was slain in the Deluge with the exception of Noah's family, despite the biblical account saying all men were slain, and all creatures. But I think most people who do believe in the Deluge at least realize that while massive, it likely only affected the Eastern Mediterranian coastal areas, and the low lying plains of modern day Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. This probably left hardly anyone alive within hundreds upon hundreds of miles. And so this would explain survivors of the Deluge in other parts of the world, such as North America, Western Europe, and so on.

So, are the giant hybrids the same thing as sasquatches which are also where the idea of the werewolf/wolfman came from, also being a sort of sasquatch perhaps?

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by DavidU
reply to post by SaviorComplex

 

Assuming aliens exist, no one can say for certain we're not genetically similar. Aliens are usually described as having a similar resemblance to humans. So whether they're an advanced ancient humanoid that stemmed from earth or beings that evolved (or created) in another planet similarly to humans, who's to say.

Well I think it is safe to assume that it's not possible. Think about it, as genetically close as we are with primates on this planet, we cannot create a hybrid with one.

Actually, Dr Calum MacKellar, director of research at the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics, believes we can. Just take a look at this article:
thescotsman.scotsman.com...

[quote
Fossil records or it didn't happen.

Don't you see, this thread is worth anything if there was any physical proof in the first place.


there is no fossil record showing conclusively our descent from apes.


did that happen?

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Let me saw off your limb. If we, and said aliens, were both seeded by the same creator. Then we could very well interbreed.

A good scientific reason to believe their were, (also still are) is the fossil record. Many of todays living animals had giant equivilents.
That all became extinct not long ago. In a single world wide event!
When these animals repopulated the earth. They no longer grew to their gigantic sizes.
So if all the animals were gigantic. Why not man?!




megafauna

This is all wild speculation without a shred of evidence. Can someone provide any actual evidence of this other then a few stories? How about a skeleton?

If this were true then how is a human women to carry the child until full term. She would be big as a house and surely split her wide open and not live through it.

the term giant might should not necessarily be taken as a person who's 8 foot + tall. it does say that these hybrids were great men of renown. maybe their intellectual/physical traits are what made them 'giant' compared to the regular populous.

it's the same as calling Albert Einstein a giant. He wasn't actually huge, but he was a great man of renown, and his intellect was of giant proportions. see what i mean?

Originally posted by Crabmeat
the term giant might should not necessarily be taken as a person who's 8 foot + tall. it does say that these hybrids were great men of renown. maybe their intellectual/physical traits are what made them 'giant' compared to the regular populous.

it's the same as calling Albert Einstein a giant. He wasn't actually huge, but he was a great man of renown, and his intellect was of giant proportions. see what i mean?

Interesting thought but this is once again speculation. Without evidence, this thread is at best a speculative thought exercise and at worst a ok sci-fi short story.

The KJV actually says. "There were giants in the earth in those days",
Gen 6.4. "also (after that), when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became
mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

So it could be interpreted that the giants were all ready on earth. Maybe it is even referring to giant animals? Also that the Nepthium were super smart, not necessarly giants.

It is speculated and even accused by some. That the mainstream scientific community is covering up, hiding and even destroying fossil
evidence of giants. Because it doesn't support the evolution, uniformian, paragrim.
It is documented history, that science has covered up, and reject, evidence and theories that didn't support that paragrim. So there is reason to conclude they would cover up such evidence!

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come
of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we
were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but
the Moabites call them Emims.

Deuteronomy 2:20-21 That also was accounted a land of giants: giants
dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A
people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed
them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:

Deuteronomy 3:11-13 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant
of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in
Rabbath of the children of Ammon? Nine cubits was the length thereof,
and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. And this
land, which we possessed at that time, from Aroer, which is by the river
Arnon, and half mount Gilead, and the cities thereof, gave I unto the
Reubenites and to the Gadites. And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan,
being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the
region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.

Deuteronomy 9:2 A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims,
whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before
the children of Anak!

Joshua 12:4 And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which was of the remnant
of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,

Joshua 13:12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth
and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did
Moses smite, and cast them out.

Joshua 15:8 And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom
unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the
border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley
of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants
northward:

Joshua 17:15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then
get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the
land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow
for thee.

Joshua 18:16-17 And the border came down to the end of the mountain that
lieth before the valley of the son of Hinnom, and which is in the valley
of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to
the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel, And was drawn
from the north, and went forth to Enshemesh, and went forth toward
Geliloth, which is over against the going up of Adummim, and descended
to the stone of Bohan the son of Reuben,

2 Samual 21:20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of
great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six
toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

1 Chronicles 20:6 And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man
of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on
each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant.

okay, you guys don't listen, and it's pissing me off.

when the greeks translated the HEBREW bible, they replaced the word nephillim with gigantes. when the romans then translated the greek version into latin, they took gigantes and replaced it with giants.

in Genesis of the old testament, in it's ORIGINAL HEBREW LANGUAGE, the word giant isn't used once.

why genesis? genesis deals with the history of man before the jewish nation was formed. nobody knows how far back in history it goes, but seeing as the nephillim were around in those days, and giant isn't used once, you guys... ARGH!

reply to post by Crabmeat


In my Hebrew, Chaldee translation it says: giants of Gens.6/ translates too: nphiyl or nphil, a bully or tyrant:-giant.

root word of nphiyl is, naphal : to fall or be cast down. many other such definitions.

So exactly what is your point?

Originally posted by DavidU
Actually, Dr Calum MacKellar, director of research at the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics, believes we can. Just take a look at this article:
thescotsman.scotsman.com...

He believes we can. But it hasn't happened yet. It still remains within the realm of science-fiction. But, even if it is possible, we are 99% genetically related to chimpanzee and bonobos. We wouldn't have any thing in common genetically with visitors-from-beyond-the-sun.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by Howie47
A good scientific reason to believe their were, (also still are) is the fossil record. Many of todays living animals had giant equivilents.
That all became extinct not long ago. In a single world wide event!

When these animals repopulated the earth. They no longer grew to their gigantic sizes.

So if all the animals were gigantic. Why not man?!

You are making the mistake in thinking that these animals were simply overgrown versions of animals we have today. The Pleistocene megafauna were different species; a mammoth isn't just a giant version of an elephant, a sabre-tooth tiger isn't just a big mountain lion, and so forth. There were primates that we would consider giant, such as Gigantopithecus Blacki.

And the Pleistocene mammals did not just die out overnight. In most cases, it was a gradual event, taking hundreds of years, if not thousands, due to a changing environment and competition from man. For example, the mammoth did not die out until just 3000-4000 years ago, existing on an island in Siberia.