The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

Originally posted by freight tomsen
Josh Norton is a Mason, hence his avatar of a 3 of clubs. The club is Freemasonry, and is a 3-leaf clover, so the 3 of clubs represents 33, like the 33 degrees of Masonry.

Actually, Josh Norton is a friend of Penn & Teller, and Penn & Teller use the 3 of clubs in all their magic tricks because it is the most recognizable and distinguishable card when shown on TV. Penn and Teller are atheists and think Masonry is silly. Josh Norton does not hold that against them. They're good guys at heart.

Originally posted by freight tomsenYou folks can look into the Columbia speech yourselves.

They can, and they will find out it is a lie propagated by the very people Skyfloating maintains are conspiring against the Masons. No source on Google is capable of giving any more of the speech than that one sentence. Likewise, in another thread this week I believe I called you to task on a similar quote from Pres. Filmore that only exists within conspiracy texts. Nobody can give a date or a context or any other material except that one sentence.

Clearly you are lying, or knowingly quoting people who have lied. Is this not conspiracy? 5 minutes of Google has poked holes in two of your valued quotes. How could any of your research possibly hold up to additional scrutiny?

You've lost.

edit: And what the heck does the rest of your post have to do with the topic anyway?

[edit on 5/1/2008 by JoshNorton]

Hmmm.

You say the Powerful & Corrupt World & Business leaders are responsible for undermining Freemasonry.

If this is so, then why is it that the most powerful men in the world, are in fact Freemasons?

Surly they can't be persicuting themeselves can they?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Actually, Josh Norton is a friend of Penn & Teller, and Penn & Teller use the 3 of clubs in all their magic tricks because it is the most recognizable and distinguishable card when shown on TV. Penn and Teller are atheists and think Masonry is silly. Josh Norton does not hold that against them. They're good guys at heart.

Penn & Teller are Masons. That's why they use the 3 of clubs, and that's why you, a Mason, also use it. That's a hilarious explanation though: "Penn & Teller use the 3 of clubs in all their magic tricks because it is the most recognizable and distinguishable card when shown on TV"

Hahahaha, what utter bollocks! This is exactly the kind of ridiculous "In-Formation" Masons try to push on us. As if one card is "the most recognizable and distinguishable" on TV. It's a Masonic calling-card people! Wake up.

Penn & Teller are not atheists. They pretend to be. So does Richard Dawkins. The Illuminati/higher-degree Masons want to promote atheism and nihilism into the masses while keeping secrets of spiritual uplift to themselves. They remain our spiritual masters/superiors, meanwhile they promulgate people like Nietzche.

Read what Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the 33rd degree and Supreme Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry wrote to Mazzini on Aug. 15, 1871:

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.

The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the ‘agentur’ of the ‘Illuminati’ between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
-Albert Pike in a letter to Giuseppe Mazzini, excerpt from William Carr’s “Pawns in the Game”

How did Albert Pike and the Masons plan to "Unleash the Atheists and Nihilists" during World War III? First you have to create a world full of Atheists and Nihilists through media and education... good job Masons! You've done it. Now the godless, purposeless masses will willingly fight to the death over nothing.

Masons know about God and spiritualism, but they propagate Atheism and Nihilism whenever they can. That's why, for example, ATS Mason/agent jfj123 has a Masonic eagle overlooking burning twin towers, a terrible Nietzche/Nihilistic quote for signature, and comes here everyday to "debunk" 9/11 truth-seekers.

Originally posted by Ironclad
Hmmm.

You say the Powerful & Corrupt World & Business leaders are responsible for undermining Freemasonry.

No, nobody in this thread has said that. What we've said is that dictators and religious leaders have had Masons killed for being Masons. I mean, sure, I guess murder is a way of undermining, but I don't know if undermining is really the right verb...

If this is so, then why is it that the most powerful men in the world, are in fact Freemasons?

Except they're not. Freight Tomsen will disagree and instantly mange to come up with photos of QEII, GWBush and Sadam Hussein sitting around, sipping tea and throwing the goat, but it's all a load of rubbish. Masons are proud of their members. If someone famous is a member, Masons use that association to positively promote what their organization does.

I mean, look at it this way: Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. Do you think he's a closet Scientologist? No. He's their poster boy. He's out front and in public trying (perhaps in vain) to further a positive image of Scientology. If Masonry had half the powerful or famous members that theorists claim it has, don't you think Masonry would be a whole lot more visible?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
If Masonry had half the powerful or famous members that theorists claim it has, don't you think Masonry would be a whole lot more visible?

No, that's why they call it a "Secret" Society. You're not here on an internet conspiracy discussion board to spill your guts about your "secret" society, secret meetings, secret oaths, secret rituals, secret occult knowledge. That's what lodges and the 33 degrees are for. If all we had to do is come to ATS, I guarentee those lodges would be empty.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you haven't read already, the preceeding thread should prove helpful.

Originally posted by JoshNorton Penn & Teller use the 3 of clubs in all their magic tricks because it is the most recognizable and distinguishable card when shown on TV.

You know, even if that was true, it surely wouldn't be the "3 of clubs" that was scientifically the most distinguishable card on TV. It would be an Ace or Face card and definitely not a number card. The Ace of Spades is certianly more distinguishable than the 3 of clubs. The 3 of clubs is used to represent 3 and 3, 33, the level of Masonry Penn & Teller have achieved and ATS Mason/Agent Josh Norton wishes to one day.

reply to post by Skyfloating

You're not telling anyone the truth about high-degree freemasons & porch-masons. You & other freemason-shills can't convince true patriots & freedom-loving communities that freemasonry isn't connected with mystery-religions (especially abusive satanic-cults).

Shills for high-degree freemasons, like you: claim that people are ignorant for not trusting or supporting your cult-leaders. Insulting people, who don't trust or support secret-societies & mystery-religions (ie: freemasonry) is ridiculous.

Your lies are insults. Your insults (against those, who hate freemasonry) don't prove anything, beside the fact that you hate people, who expose your cult & other secret-societies, on a daily basis.

Freemasonry is a brotherhood of darkness, which involves satantic-rituals. Experts, ex-freemasons, and scholars spoke out about you & your cult, quite often (and many of them continue to expose it online & on television), such as Jim Marrs (1) & Alexander Emerick Jones (2):

1. Here, we have 4 videos about freemasonry & other secret-societies (occults/mystery-religions & ect.) directed by friends & associates of the highly respected, Jim Marrs (a "Conspiracy Pro", who is highly-respected by honest administrators & the majority of the great staffers, who moderate websites like this one):



Darkside of freemasonry vol 1


Darkside of freemasonry vol 2


Secret Societies Jim Marrs Part 1


Secret Societies Jim Marrs Part 2


2. Here'e we have another video, which is directed by 1 of Jim Marrs' friends: Alexander Emerick Jones.

He's a highly respected reporter, who exposed the secrets behind the Bohemian Grove & many more wicked-communities/occults, such as the Order of Death. He is honored & supported by many members & administrators of forum-sites like this one:

- Alexander Emerick Jones



Commentary on Freemasonry


[edit on 1-5-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


You're then, a true man amongst your people, and I hope your kind is not the exception.

I honestly, think that most anti-masons are against masons simply because they know very little. Probably the same reason voters aren't voting for Ron Paul (nyuk nyuk nyuk). God I am bad at puns.

Anyway, your response satiates what I was trying to get, so I won't argue any of it. I still don't agree with the whole oddly ritualistic (I may be hearing a tall tale, I'll admit) aspect of the group, as it is secrecy for the sake of being secret, but you're obviously a sane minded individual.

Therefore I must concede to my defeat and say that I will more thoroughly study the culture(?) before I question it again.

I never thought you were evil, I just think that sometimes there are single entities of every staple in life that ruin things for the entire population. Catholic church anyone? I am a former member of that and I still don't recall it as "evil." Lets get logical.

On to the illuminati, those might be harder to find.

PS. I'm using one of your lines in some music, please U2U me to ask that I don't, I just thought it was poetic.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
There is no conspiracy against Freemasonry.

The history shown in the OP shows plenty of plots against freemasonry.

The people you are calling "Anti-Masons" are just non-Masons who have taken the time to research the history of Freemasonry.

They also happen to be communists, nazis and religious zealots...and those who have fallen for the literature published by those.

So why are a large group of Masons constantly monitoring ATS? Certain moderators here have also mentioned their involvement in Masonry. They are not here to inform you of the reality of Masonry - they are under blood-oath NOT to do so! They are here to provide a benevolent, seemingly open face for Masonry. But the reality is they are being paid to spend hours a day on different sites providing "establishment rationalism" against us "crazy conspiracy theorists."

They are here because they are decent people who know there is a witchhunt and disinformation campaign being waged against them and wish to inform readers who they really are...as to provide the journalistically needed counter-balance.

Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS
You're not telling anyone the truth about high-degree freemasons & porch-masons.

Are you saying that the historical events laid out in the opening post are false? Are you saying masons have not been persecuted, murdered and suppressed by religious, communist and nazi tyrants?

You & other freemason-shills can't convince true patriots & freedom-loving communities that freemasonry isn't connected with mystery-religions (especially abusive satanic-cults).

Im just a normal guy sitting in front of his computer who knows from experience that there is not one iota of "satanism" within lodges.

I must therefore conclude that you are either deliberatly out to misinform or that you have fallen for certain literature.

Shills for high-degree freemasons, like you: claim that people are ignorant for not trusting or supporting your cult-leaders. Insulting people, who don't trust or support secret-societies & mystery-religions (ie: freemasonry) is ridiculous.

You fail to refute the points made in the opening post. Is that "scholary"?

Your lies are insults. Your insults (against those, who hate freemasonry) don't prove anything, beside the fact that you hate people, who expose your cult & other secret-societies, on a daily basis.

Calling me a liar on the basis of the OP shows ATS-readers more about you than about masons.

Freemasonry is a brotherhood of darkness, which involves satantic-rituals.

Yes...thats the propaganda spread by totalitarian governments.

Strange that there is not a single picture or video showing satanic rituals of masons.

Experts, ex-freemasons, and scholars spoke out about you & your cult, quite often

"Experts" who have never happened to enter a single lodge. If these experts are so expert, why are they not appearing in this thread refuting the opening post?

1. Here, we have 4 videos about freemasonry & other secret-societies (occults/mystery-religions & ect.) directed by friends & associates of the highly respected,

One of the sources you keep citing is Bill Schnoebelen who claims to have been a blood-drinking-vampire due to his brainwashing by freemasons.

Have you ever wondered if he may not be entirely honest

I believe there are conspiracies out there too. But you have to learn to discern between propaganda and real conspiracies.

The real "bad guys" out there are the oppressive regimes described in my opening post.

Originally posted by SantaClaus
I honestly, think that most anti-masons are against masons simply because they know very little.

Or because they have bought into certain literature published by certain organizations. I sure wish people would look into the actual sources of some of the books and videos they are seeing.

Who wrote this book and what is the persons agenda? is a question some supposedly "very aware" people frequently fail to ask.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
They are here because they are decent people who know there is a witchhunt and disinformation campaign being waged against them and wish to inform readers who they really are...as to provide the journalistically needed counter-balance.

So you and other Masons are members and moderators of ATS for the benefit of Freemasonry?

Originally posted by Recouper
So you and other Masons are members and moderators of ATS for the benefit of Freemasonry?

I actually rarely post on the secret-societies forum (this is my first thread here in almost a year).

I felt compelled to finally post something countering all the insults (child-rapists, etc.).

But even speaking here I am not speaking on behalf of ATS (as a Moderator) and I am not speaking on behalf of Freemasonry...

I am speaking on behalf of what in my heart I know is true

reply to post by ChadAndrewATS


Look dude,

you´ve been implying that I am and/or promote a satanist, pedophile, child murderer, rapist and whatnot...

...and you dont even know me.

Whats the deal here?

If you´d know me personally you`d see that I am just another guy sitting in front of his computer wanting to chat on alternative subjects and finding out truths, just like you.

Within your conspiracy-worldview have you ever considered that some conspiracy-theories are red herrings meant to deflect from the really bad guys?

[edit on 1-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


I understand.
It's so hard to know what to believe when it comes to Freemasonry. And you are right about the questionable authenticity of the facts presented against the organisation. But there really is a lot of anti-masonry content on the internet; I'm entirely unconvinced either way.
But I'll tell you what I do believe in: corruption. The world is drowning in corruption. And there truly is an evil entity which wants to control every individual on the face of the planet. Corporations. Their mandate to make the highest profits possible and to dominate the market makes them enemies of humanity. Laws to corporations only symbolise business risks and People are resources and assets, while national sovereignty is an obstacle that represents a constant, exasperating annoyance.
Is there anything the Masons can do about that? Whatever the intentions of the Freemason organisation, I would say not.
I can see what humans are like by nature. I see it everyday. Everybody wants to be above others and have more "precious things" than they already have. To me it seems that corruption is part of the human animal. I'm trying to cure myself of that evil, but that's just me and I hold no fantasies of hope when it comes to the future of society.

Originally posted by Recouper


It's so hard to know what to believe when it comes to Freemasonry.

I understand. Before joining I used to believe in some of it myself.

The world is drowning in corruption.


Is there anything the Masons can do about that?

Sadly, I dont think freemasonry has as much power as it used to have.

In my 7+ years of masonry I have not received a cent or gotten a single beneficial business opportunity due to masonry.

The whole idea of masonry is not about "getting" but about "giving" anyway.

The solutions to the corruption you speak of will have to come from somewhere else.

Whatever the intentions of the Freemason organisation, I would say not.
I can see what humans are like by nature. I see it everyday. Everybody wants to be above others and have more "precious things" than they already have. To me it seems that corruption is part of the human animal. I'm trying to cure myself of that evil, but that's just me and I hold no fantasies of hope when it comes to the future of society.

Well, perhaps. Im not as pessimistic as you.

I have searched high and low for a chink in the Freemasons armour, tried every angle and investigated the background of those who admit to being freemasons. Nothing untoward at all. Not a dickie bird.

I have read many of the claims made by those who openly slander the organisation and I have followed that up with my own exploration of their claims, and concluded that they have very little substance whatsoever.

I have engaged in conversation, here on ATS, with a number of Freemasons and found consistently that they are good, honest, hardworking people who overall find strength and companionship in their membership of the Freemasons.

I don't think I will ever become a freemason, I don't think that we would suit each other in many respects, but I would certainly feel no compunction to dissuade any one else from doing so. They are what they say they are and I have found nothing to the contrary to suggest otherwise. Lol the worst I could find in terms of famous members - Ernest Borgnine; He was charged with assaulting his wife, Burl Ives; racist and Jim Davidson (British comedian/entertainer); racist/nationalist. That is about the sum total of depravity. You can almost guarentee that when someone is accused of freemasonry on sites such as freemasonrywatch or save the males, who can be described as an immoral person, that that person in reality has no connection to the craft. Like George Bush and Tony Blair etc etc.

I think that often the exception proves the rule. I like the fact that Lyndon B Johnson only made it to initiation. His morals may have benefitted from progress. The Duke of Edinburgh the same. I find it very interesting that Churchill while a mason, was not practicing, IMO he may have changed the direction of history in a more positive direction had he adhered more closely to its teaching.

From what I can gather, the most fervent opposition in the US in particular, originates from the protestant faiths, it reaches into fever pitch amongst many of the more fundamental practioners but this seems to me more reactionism than dissemination. Much of it seems to be bundled up in anti-judiac sentiment. It is really very much like the arguments put forward by the Nazi party and disseminated by the Ministry of Propaganda, just without the excuse of race or as yet, an SS to implement them.

Some of the material, like that deseminated by Eric Phelps, has been doing the rounds since the early 1800s and was designed then to appeal to the easily titilated, newly educated minds of the emerging professional class. At this time too, it was being printed and published by either the Catholic Church, the nouveau riche capital imperialists or despot rulers (who invariable was recieving it from one of the previous two). There seems little change, the real enemies of Freemasonry remain the same.

Eric Phelps himself seems to maintain a cabal of dissemination, where by some mutual agreement or simple-like-mindedness, he, Greg Symanski and Henry Makow, proliferate, reference and promote each others work and ideas. Their viewpoints are almost inseperable, it simply varies in the spectrum of extremity and approach, and by doing so appeals to a wide demographic. Whether it is organised and who pays the 'salaries' if it is, I do not know

reply to post by Skyfloating


Well, yeah. I am a little pessimistic. I would like to see things differently but at the same time I need to see things as they are.
If you step back a little, and just have a look at the whole world in one go, do you really see any indication that the world is going to improve. I see things changing for the worse.
I know that there are little victories of virtue. But try to look at the whole world at once and be honest about what you see happening to humanity.
I'm going to bed now. But I'll pop back here tomorrow.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I have searched high and low for a chink in the Freemasons armour, tried every angle and investigated the background of those who admit to being freemasons. Nothing untoward at all. Not a dickie bird.

Thats why Im starting to suspect an organized effort (conspiracy) against freemasonry. I mean...look at the stuff posted.. it is borderline psychotic.

I have read many of the claims made by those who openly slander the organisation and I have followed that up with my own exploration of their claims, and concluded that they have very little substance whatsoever.

Nevertheless they´re all over the place.

From what I can gather, the most fervent opposition in the US in particular, originates from the protestant faiths, it reaches into fever pitch amongst many of the more fundamental practioners but this seems to me more reactionism than dissemination. Much of it seems to be bundled up in anti-judiac sentiment. It is really very much like the arguments put forward by the Nazi party and disseminated by the Ministry of Propaganda, just without the excuse of race or as yet, an SS to implement them.

Yes. My impression is that some of these Xians honestly believe what they say but are unaware that they have fallen for a scam.

Eric Phelps himself seems to maintain a cabal of dissemination, where by some mutual agreement or simple-like-mindedness, he, Greg Symanski and Henry Makow, proliferate, reference and promote each others work and ideas. Their viewpoints are almost inseperable, it simply varies in the spectrum of extremity and approach, and by doing so appeals to a wide demographic. Whether it is organised and who pays the 'salaries' if it is, I do not know

Its amazing though at how widespread this bizzare myth is, even among "normal" people.