That's It!!! This Anti-Obama Propaganda Has Got To Stop

reply to post by bigbert81


Irrational fear? No

Well deserved distrust, Yes.

Any religion where fathers kill their daughters for adopting new ways and wanting to leave the cult can not be trusted in my opinion. This is barbaric beyond all belief.

Heck, I mistrust most organized religions, including the religious right in the U.S., why should Islam be any different?

reply to post by poet1b


It sure sounded different, especially when you said this:

So how do we know that Obama's own bible is not the Koran. Is this a common practice for Senators swearing their oath, to provide their own bibles? She could have been holding any book.

Sounds like you have QUITE the difference in opinions. Perhaps you should read the Bible and see some of the barbarous stuff in there too.

reply to post by bigbert81


Different opinion about what?

How could I be more clear? I don't trust Islam, just as I don't trust most organized religions. Catholicism was every bit as barbaric five hundred years ago as Islam is today. The current difference being that Catholics no longer physically attack those with different religious beliefs, while Muslims continue to do just that.

reply to post by poet1b


If you don't trust any religions, why does it matter which book Obama put his hand on?

You sure sound like you care an awful lot that he used his own Bible because IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A KORAN!!!

reply to post by bigbert81


Because Obama, born and raised a Muslim until what, the age of ten or more, claims that he is a Christian, yet finds that the opening prayers of Islam, that are an Oath to Mohammad, at the most beautiful words spoken. I think the man is lying when he claims to be a Christian. No Christian would ever claim the opening words to Islam prayer to be beautiful, let alone the most beautiful words spoken. It is kind of like a guy claiming he is straight, yet stating that he thinks the male penis is the most beautiful part of the human anatomy. The statements are incompatible.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigbert81

 

Because Obama, born and raised a Muslim until what, the age of ten or more, claims that he is a Christian, yet finds that the opening prayers of Islam, that are an Oath to Mohammad, at the most beautiful words spoken. I think the man is lying when he claims to be a Christian. No Christian would ever claim the opening words to Islam prayer to be beautiful, let alone the most beautiful words spoken. It is kind of like a guy claiming he is straight, yet stating that he thinks the male penis is the most beautiful part of the human anatomy. The statements are incompatible.

You still haven't addressed my point, and are once again strengthening it.

We're not arguing whether Obama is Muslim. We're arguing your prejudicial views towards them.

reply to post by bigbert81




No, we are talking about whether or not Obama can be trusted. You started this thread calling Hillary a liar as the reason why Obama is the best candidate. I have proved that Obama is the bigger liar, in fact the biggest lair of the three remaining candidates.

The issue is whether or not Obama is being honest about his religion. This is a very important point about his honesty, his character, his integrity, his essence, in fact it is critical.


The fact that I do not trust Islam is a side issue.

reply to post by poet1b


First, you haven't 'proved' anything.

Hillary is a much bigger liar. Perhaps you should drop your Muslim prejudice for once, and go do a bit of research on that.

And it's not a 'side issue' when you start worrying about why he used his own Bible to put his hand on. You brought it up, and now you're trying to deflect my questions.

reply to post by bigbert81


You have spent entire thread denying all of the valid points that prove that Obama is not being honest with the world, and I suspect not being honest with himself. That isn't very healthy. My points are extremely valid, whether or not you recognize them. I have the right to make up my own mind about what I think is important in someones character, and you should respect that.

As far as Islam is concerned. We can debate that issue on the other thread you provided a link to. Then you can find out how well informed I am on the subject. I have already posted there.

reply to post by poet1b


One of the points of the thread, is that being Muslim is nothing compared to what the other candidates have going for them.

Must've missed that I guess.

reply to post by bigbert81


No, you missed the point where the claim that Obama's failure to be honest about his religion is not important is straight up wrong. Maybe you don't think Obama's honesty about his religion is important, but a great many other people do.

Not only do I find Obama's failure to be honest about his religion to be a serious problem, I find his religious beliefs to be a serious problem. I have a right to make my own judgments on my own criteria. You want to claim this is discrimination, but it is not. Muslims continuously engage in activities that I do not find acceptable. Like I said, we can address this issue on the other thread.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by bigbert81

 

when the have video of the man saying the stuff.....it's kind of hard not to accept that the guy said the words....isn't it?

the guy, from what I've seen, seems to have stood in his pulpit and asked God to damn america.....
seemingly not realizing that he, just as you and me, and everyone else in this country IS AMERICA.....so, well, the only way I know of interpreting that one is that he hates america so much, he's willing to be damned himself if only he can get the rest of us damned with him.

now, it seems that he's just gone off the deep end, and he's saying stuff that is really damaging obama's chances....
why?? I'm halfway expecting this church to get a nice big donation from the republican party soon......for services rendered....

His point was that if you listened to the whole text Wrights premise is that the USA commits heinous acts all the time and never pauses to apologize, correct, or even reflect on the injustices. then they wave the flag of piousness from the 'moral high-ground' and say 'God Bless America'. I am still paraphrasing, but he gave specific examples, small poxing the Native Americans, Japanese internment, slavery, atomic bombing of Japan, and suggesting that any true christian would condemn those acts as he supposed God would damn them.

It does change your perception of what he said pretty much...

[edit on 18-5-2008 by wytworm]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigbert81

 

Because Obama, born and raised a Muslim until what, the age of ten or more, claims that he is a Christian, yet finds that the opening prayers of Islam, that are an Oath to Mohammad, at the most beautiful words spoken. I think the man is lying when he claims to be a Christian. No Christian would ever claim the opening words to Islam prayer to be beautiful, let alone the most beautiful words spoken. It is kind of like a guy claiming he is straight, yet stating that he thinks the male penis is the most beautiful part of the human anatomy. The statements are incompatible.

Wow! To me this type of statement suggests that the meaning of what it is to be Christian, Muslim, or a Human is completely lost...There is certainly little in that post that is Christian, Muslim, or Human.

This is the painting of the insanity/banality of the flag pin 'argument'. Adopt symbols of patriotism and spirituality to obfuscate their absence in one's self. Try to fan mob hysteria by posing fake arguments instead of facing up to the real issues.

These arguments are the CHANGE that the Obama campaign represents. An outright rejection of false issues (issues that 'eat' us rather than 'feed' us) and a continual refocusing of the conversation on the true issues. I would rather take the hand offering a lift up than to fearfully try to catch the one slapping me down...I would rather listen to the voice saying: I have looked at this from both sides and this is what I think, than the voice that screams STOP THINKING! JUST HAVE FAITH!

[edit on 18-5-2008 by wytworm]

reply to post by wytworm


First of all, we here in the U.S. question and criticize our actions all the time, far more than most nations. Didn't the U.S. apologize for the internment of the Japanese? Are you going to pretend that Most people in the U.S. do not condemn racism or do not look back on our period of slavery as a stain on our nation? You have a very distorted view of what and who the U.S. is. It is one thing to criticize our nation, all nations do things that are wrong, but another to damn our nation from the pulpit. Can you see the difference?

As far as Obama's honesty is concerned. The thread starts out condemning Hillary Clinton's honesty, but insists that Obama's honesty not be questioned. That is a double standard, hypocrisy, the worst of all vices. Maybe if you brought up the attacks against Hillary's honesty as well as the attacks against Obama's honesty, you might have some credibility. Maybe you need to think about your own humanity.

If you can not trust someone, how can you believe their positions on the issues? Anyone can make promises that they do not intend to keep.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigbert81

 

No, you missed the point where the claim that Obama's failure to be honest about his religion is not important is straight up wrong. Maybe you don't think Obama's honesty about his religion is important, but a great many other people do.

Not only do I find Obama's failure to be honest about his religion to be a serious problem, I find his religious beliefs to be a serious problem. I have a right to make my own judgments on my own criteria. You want to claim this is discrimination, but it is not. Muslims continuously engage in activities that I do not find acceptable. Like I said, we can address this issue on the other thread.

No, you have missed the point.

I know that's what you're going for, but the fact of the matter is, Obama is a Christian. If not, you cannot prove it, yet you make your decisions based off of this pseudo-reasoning you've got going on.

You are making assumptions on something that cannot be proven, and is in fact, nothing more than propaganda.


[edit on 5/18/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by poet1b


You apparently have also missed the point where I said all 3 candidates have reasons to not be trusted, however YOUR idea of catching someone in the act is looking at propaganda and not hard facts.

Hillary and McCain have MUCH, MUCH more of a proven track record of lying and flopping on the issues.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by wytworm

 

First of all, we here in the U.S. question and criticize our actions all the time, far more than most nations. Didn't the U.S. apologize for the internment of the Japanese? Are you going to pretend that Most people in the U.S. do not condemn racism or do not look back on our period of slavery as a stain on our nation? You have a very distorted view of what and who the U.S. is. It is one thing to criticize our nation, all nations do things that are wrong, but another to damn our nation from the pulpit. Can you see the difference?

Full Disclosure: I am not actually Reverend Wright as your conflation above appears to suggest. I have no pulpit nor do I necessarily share his views. Who I am is someone who actually listened to what he said, then related it on this thread above. The point being, he was saying that America's hands are dirty and condemns those who deny it. Sure he uses inflammatory speech in doing so. So?

Maybe if you brought up the attacks against Hillary's honesty as well as the attacks against Obama's honesty, you might have some credibility.

This is an internet forum. There is nothing that goes on here that has anything to do with credibility. No one here has it. What credibility do you think I should have? What credibility do you think you have with me?

Maybe you need to think about your own humanity.

That's good advice for anyone in these troubled times. Thanks for the thought.

If you can not trust someone, how can you believe their positions on the issues? Anyone can make promises that they do not intend to keep.

This is a really tough one. These days there is very little to indicate whether a candidate's position is sincere or a spin-job. I know how I arrived at my conclusions. I wish you luck. I would suggest however that you ought not to wait around for 100% certainty on it. Most likely that would never come until it is too late.

reply to post by bigbert81


I am interested in your posts, and respect your opinion to a certain extent. What reasons are there in your mind to not trust Obama? I think I know on the others....

Originally posted by wytworm
reply to post by bigbert81

 

I am interested in your posts, and respect your opinion to a certain extent. What reasons are there in your mind to not trust Obama? I think I know on the others....

Thanks, brother, for the compliment.

My main reasons are the Tony Rezko case, and a couple reports I've heard of Obama's campaign team saying 'it's just campaign rhetoric.'

Those are really the primary reasons. I could give a crap whether he said he wouldn't wear a lapel pin, and then decided to, or whether evidence might point towards him possibly being Muslim. Or I also don't care what is pastor said. That crap does nothing for me.

The main things are the 2 items I've listed above, the Rezko deal, and the 'campaign rhetoric' deal, even though that one is really just hearsay.

Originally posted by bigbert81

Originally posted by wytworm
reply to post by bigbert81

 

I am interested in your posts, and respect your opinion to a certain extent. What reasons are there in your mind to not trust Obama? I think I know on the others....

Thanks, brother, for the compliment.

My main reasons are the Tony Rezko case, and a couple reports I've heard of Obama's campaign team saying 'it's just campaign rhetoric.'

Those are really the primary reasons. I could give a crap whether he said he wouldn't wear a lapel pin, and then decided to, or whether evidence might point towards him possibly being Muslim. Or I also don't care what is pastor said. That crap does nothing for me.

The main things are the 2 items I've listed above, the Rezko deal, and the 'campaign rhetoric' deal, even though that one is really just hearsay.

Yep. I am with you on both of those.