Stockpiling? Don't forget the aluminum for fuel!

Originally posted by blimpseeker

Your "truth" is based on mythology, you said it yourself.

My truth is based in patents, physics and good old fashioned common sense. I brought up the tesla pierce-arrow example only because it seemed relevant and were covered in some local newspapers at the time.

Tesla's myth is even larger than the zero point energy freaks so don't use Tesla as an example.

Now if you wish to qualify your opinion maybe i would give it some consideration.

Why don't we wait and see how many patents on free energy pass through the new patent requirements and then make up our minds if this is a viable source of energy..

As if they are going revise those many millions of patents. You still have to explain to my why you do not believe that any of those machines really tapped into a then unknown energy source? What exactly in physics have led you to believe that to be so impossible?

.Anything short of a working model is...mythology

Hence the fact that people built machines and demonstrated them to other scientist who happened to have sponsored many of these devices! You want us to believe in smaller conspiracies but refuse to acknowledge the possibility that a far larger one may be afoot?

Since you don't care to read the patent papers it's probably best if you just start making your scientific objections, to his field, clear to us.

Stellar

Originally posted by mdiinican
Wow, this is one of the first links from ATS that actually doesn't come off as crazy.

So you arrived ten minutes ago?

That's pretty cool and easy to understand, the aluminum oxidizes, and releases the hydrogen as a byproduct. When you put an alkali metal in water, it does the same thing, except it also gets hot enough to ignite it. There is a huge amount of energy locked up in metallic aluminum. Thermite, for example, is an aluminum oxidation reaction.

And funnily this will probably be laughed out of the room the same way LENR were not so long ago.

Problem is, aluminum is expensive, reprocessing takes a huge infrastructure, and requires far more energy than this process releases. Woodall obviously intends this to be used to make an easily transportable, recyclable, electricity free hydrogen storage process and source. Might be better just to stockpile gallium, and get your aluminum through foraging. The stuff is everywhere, and almost nobody else will be hoarding and using it.

Until, obviously, someone else hears about this.....

also: hydrogen isn't that great of a fuel to begin with. Some things, like rotary engines will run it without modification, but hydrogen is not very energy dense. You'll need many cubic meters of it to run a generator or anything like that. stockpiling high pressure tanks and pumps is a bit high end for most people, so they'll have to do it on-demand, which doesn't lead well to automation.

Hydrogen isn't a fuel at all! It's a means to store energy gained from other processes ( such as the big bang i suppose) and shouldn't be called a fuel resulting in the believe that's something like petroleum/oil

Might be useful to just stockpile gallium, and a whole bunch of gasoline, and devices which can run on pure hydrogen and air.

If you can find some that run on that. Why not just stockpile petrol? Do you think no one will notice if you generate electricity in a 'end of the world' scenario or that you woulnd't , at gunpoint, tell them how to work your machine?

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

Ok you win, show me how to make free energy so I can run my generator with it....and don't point to those worthless patents either.
"funily" how all those patents are out there and yet no one is building these machines for fun and profit.

reply to post by blimpseeker

The resulting aluminum hydroxide is the same thing that is mined in order to produce aluminum metal (found in the mineral bauxite). Therefore there would be no difference between conventional recycling methods and those used in this reaction.

I'm not saying it isn't feasible, I'm just not sure yet. And my apologies, I have not had time to run the calcs even yet. I had a chance to make a few extra $$$ and I took it.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by blimpseeker
Ok you win, show me how to make free energy so I can run my generator with it....and don't point to those worthless patents either.

Why are they worthless? Don't you even understand that the device itself will be electricity 'generator' in all of those patents? What is your obsession with 'fuels'?

So since you don't like the patents maybe you can appreciate short video's with talking people?

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Why not go there and go ask the city officials why they chose to install that device in the fire station?

"funily" how all those patents are out there and yet no one is building these machines for fun and profit.

I would say it's 'sad' and i don't understand why you rather tinker with aluminium/hydrogen instead of continuing the sensible work of those who came before you. That is certainly your choice but i don't and wont show much respect for the type of ass-backwards thinking involves dismissing anything related to over unity electricity devices while focusing on Hydrogen of all things.

If you want to 'tinker' and test out some of these over unity devices for yourself i suggest you start with JL Naudin's , quite brilliant, site.

jnaudin.free.fr...

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


I like to "tinker" with the solid oxide method of extracting pure hydrogen from water because it actually works.
can you absolutely say this about zero point energy? even your best example (the guys in Australia) haven't succeeded.

Originally posted by blimpseeker
I like to "tinker" with the solid oxide method of extracting pure hydrogen from water because it actually works.

Fine but gasoline, coal, wood and plenty of other stuff also 'works'; if it's not more efficient by a very wide margin you could just as well stock up on well known commodities you might be able to barter with in times of crisis. Obviously having such resources might attract undue attention so i can understand why going another route might be advisable...

can you absolutely say this about zero point energy? even your best example (the guys in Australia) haven't succeeded.

Yes. I am confident that observations have not led us astray and that copious amounts of 'free' energy can and have , and are in nature,been extracted from the vacuum. Since i am no engineer i can but vouch for devices that have been used commercially ( and that's not exactly what Griggs is doing but at least it demonstrates over unity) so i wont put my name to any or many of these 'devices' as the field certainly has it's share of opportunist as well as agents of influence that seek bring the field in disrepute.

Stellar

All this talk of using hydrogen as an energy source is extremely impractical as it it is very difficult to store. I'm fairly certain that a number of folks have suggested wood gas(methane) generators before on the forum as a far more practical approach to fueling a petrol/gasoline engine in a survival situation. It's much easier to store and create and has far more energy potential than hydrogen gas.

here's a link:

www.gengas.nu...

For all you greenies out there, it's carbon neutral and the ashes can be used for fertilizer.

I certainly don't see how aluminum can become scarce unless it is transmuted, and this process does not do that.

And Stellar is right, we have retrieved energy from the vacuum. The Z Machine is a fine example of over unity by at least four times (if I recall).

The H boost system will work too, whilst the heathen rage. All this stuff is the right way to go.

reply to post by RogerT


try googling "n machine" if its the grail you seek a man in australia has invented a nice little generator, over unity has always existed

Plans are in the works to stop recycling, so this process may in fact be doomed!

didnt william lyne come up with a 'reaction chamber', that used hydrogen, split into atomic hydrogen, then when it 'recombined' or something, gave off vast amounts of heat (3600 c i believe)
its what im trying to do right now actually, use the recombinig hydrgon to heat water for a steam turbine
and no, i dont have a working prototype yet, its a work in progress
but, i suggest to op looks into it, as it actually uses very little hydrogen at all, and looks to be very safe, not even requireing storage if you wish
think its in his second book, occult ether physics
btw, can do the same with helium, alltho its much more powerfull

here is a link to what im on about (im a biulder, not a phycicist )
LINK should explain what im talking about
edit to add linkage

[edit on 28-5-2008 by babylonstew]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by babylonstew]

The gallium is used as a Catalyst

and I think if my chemistry is correct

that Aluminum + Water + Gallium = Aluminum Oxide + H2 + Gallium Oxide
and depending upon the salts already in the water possibly
Aluminum Hydroxide

Since this reaction would normally oxidise the surface of the aluminum
preventing the further reaction of the Aluminum with the Oxygen in the H2O,
Gallium is added as a catalyst possibly forming Gallium Oxide (or is it
Gallium Dioxide? Can't Remember) fast enough that the Aluminum + Oxygen
reaction becomes self-sustaining.

Sorry my chemistry is a bit shaky - Any chemists care to work out the
actual reactants and resulting salts....???

Heck - I can't even remember if this is considered an
Endothermic or Exothermic reaction!

reply to post by blimpseeker


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