Stockpiling? Don't forget the aluminum for fuel!

Originally posted by StellarX
I don't think this is the first time someone did this as there have been backyard processes like this for at least two decades? Either way it's always good to see new methods...

Since your looking for the 'grail' i have a few inventions you might want to look at for 'inspiration'.

Would post them all here but i'll save some space this time :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Enjoy.

Stellar

You have got to be kidding me! are you seriously considering this method a "backyard process"? So Purdue University is now equal to a "backyard"?

And you are also equating Dr. Woodall's process to Beardon's and other's futile attempts at free energy?

really?
Dude, I can take some gallium, water and aluminum and use a kitchen glass and make hydrogen in front of your eyes. Can the free energy quacks do that?

reply to post by blimpseeker


Blimpseeker, I hope your work is proceeding well. I happened across this collection of material a few months back. Some of it might be of use to you www.free-energy-info.co.uk...

Best wishes

Myrdyn

Originally posted by Myrdyn
reply to post by blimpseeker

 

Blimpseeker, I hope your work is proceeding well. I happened across this collection of material a few months back. Some of it might be of use to you www.free-energy-info.co.uk...

Best wishes

Myrdyn

Thanks for the link. I will study up on it.

Originally posted by blimpseeker
You have got to be kidding me! are you seriously considering this method a "backyard process"? So Purdue University is now equal to a "backyard"?

Well the APPLICATION seems more of a 'backyard' process than many of the technologies that some of these other people seem to be engaging in Sorry if i got it wrong but anyone who fiddle's with hydrogen when they could be investing their time and energy ( especially if their educated ) in ACTUAL energy tapping systems probably deserves what little scorn i accidentally heap on them.

And you are also equating Dr. Woodall's process to Beardon's and other's futile attempts at free energy?

What do you mean futile? What the hell is so special about hydrogen when it's nothing but a storage mechanism?

really?
Dude, I can take some gallium, water and aluminum and use a kitchen glass and make hydrogen in front of your eyes. Can the free energy quacks do that?

No they probably can't do that but why would they when they have set their sights on something more productive?

Stellar

[edit on 29-4-2008 by StellarX]

reply to post by StellarX

free energy=pipe dreams

Originally posted by blimpseeker

free energy=pipe dreams

Maybe i should just claim that energy could be tapped for a insignificantly small fraction of the current cost? Would that make you happier than my usage of the word 'free'? Have you looked at those links and if so what exactly do you disagree with or question?

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

I disagree that it is possible to generate electricity from the vaccum.
If you think the opposite SHOW me, post a video of someone actually creating energy from the vaccum.

Originally posted by blimpseeker
I disagree that it is possible to generate electricity from the vaccum.

Why? I know that's not a scientific approach but why do you think it isn't possible?

If you think the opposite SHOW me, post a video of someone actually creating energy from the vaccum.

I supplied you with a large number of patent numbers as well as descriptions of how they work and who witnessed them in action. If you don't want to believe that it's fine with me but it's now up to you to show why hundreds of scientist and people have conspired over the years to build devices that managed to fool everyone. In fact why don't you start with why you think physics excludes tapping the active vacuum?

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Why? I know that's not a scientific approach but why do you think it isn't possible?

Because if it was possible someone would have attached a black box to their car and would e driving for free by now.

I supplied you with a large number of patent numbers as well as descriptions of how they work and who witnessed them in action.

anybody can patent anything, the patent office doesn't test your idea to see if it actually works. as far as the witnesses go...hearsay

If you don't want to believe that it's fine with me but it's now up to you to show why hundreds of scientist and people have conspired over the years to build devices that managed to fool everyone. In fact why don't you start with why you think physics excludes tapping the active vacuum?

Stellar

I'll believe it when I can duplicate it in my garage. in fact when ANYONE can duplicate it in their garage and show us here on ATS how he or she did it.
I am saddened by how many gullible people ther is in the world.

I'm running some calcs right now. From what I am seeing so far, the power needed to recycle the aluminum may actually exceed the power from the hydrogen, but I won't know for sure until I complete the calcs.

The gallium is pretty pricey, but it may be worth it if this thing works. I wouldn't just run out and buy a couple pounds to play with, though, unless you 1) are able to calculate the various reactions and know this'll work, or 2) have more money them Bill Gates.

Oh, and this quote from blimpseeker is a bit off the money:

anybody can patent anything, the patent office doesn't test your idea to see if it actually works.

The US patent office now refuses to patent anything which claims to provide free energy (over-unity, zero-point, etc.) unless a working prototype is submitted for review with the patent application. For all other patents (including free energy before the new rule took effect), you are correct.

TheRedneck


[edit on 3-5-2008 by TheRedneck]

Originally posted by blimpseeker
Because if it was possible someone would have attached a black box to their car and would e driving for free by now. [

Well according to popular mythology that's exactly what Tesla did about a hundred years ago... Why do you not believe all the claims since then about people powering their own homes and cars?

anybody can patent anything, the patent office doesn't test your idea to see if it actually works. as far as the witnesses go...hearsay

So basically you wont accept any evidence contrary to your position that it just isn't possible? You can see why it's somewhat pointless to talk to people who believe they can do this 'amazing' things in their backyard but wont believe in anything anyone else does?

The prisoner, Roy J. Meyers, is serving a 3-1/2 year sentence, but in spite of the fact that he bears the stigma of a convicted lawbreaker, he has demonstrated that a convict can be a useful member of society. During his imprisonment he perfected an electrical device of such original character as to arouse feelings of wonder and skepticism until experts had seen it in actual operation. It is a device to draw electricity from the atmosphere for light and power, and the 30-day parole was granted in order that the inventor might protect his rights through the patent office at Washington.

With the acquiescence of the legislature, Governor Hunt granted the parole and the prisoner was allowed to go free without any guard or any assurance but his word of honor that he would return. Two days before the period had elapsed, Meyer again presented himself before the governor, having accomplished his mission, and then returned to the penitentiary at Florence, where he continues to serve his sentence.

This was Miss Kate Barnard, State Commissioner of Charities and Corrections of Oklahoma, who was a guest of Mr. Sims, while studying prison conditions. She saw the machine at work, became familiar with the facts of Meyers' case, and was impressed by his rather blunt and unaffected personality, for Meyers has nothing of the polish or glibness of the poseur. He is a simple, earnest student of mechanical problems and not the sort of man to make a sentimental appeal for sympathy because of any grace of person or manner. Therefore it was the value of Meyers' invention, together with his essential integrity (in spite of his lapse) which so strongly impressed Miss Barnard that when she appeared before the Arizona legislature not long afterwards, addressing that body on the need of enlightened legislature along the line of her own work, she told the story of Roy Meyers and his epoch-making invention.

www.rexresearch.com...

So he was a smart enough con artist to fool scientist and parole officers but not smart enough to take the opportunity to escape? It's funny how people like you will believe almost anything as long as you don't have to change your mind about anything fundamental.

So why don't you go ahead and build us one of those?

I'll believe it when I can duplicate it in my garage.

So your just another arrogant type who believes what he can in fact build? Did you build your own PC ( even morons can assemble the pieces) or are you just hoping it wont blow up in your face?

in fact when ANYONE can duplicate it in their garage and show us here on ATS how he or she did it.

So you are not happy with proof of principle tests or even the words of the many people who ay they have tested such devices? Would you like it if i started calling you a liar for making up all that 'nonsense' about hydrogen 'whatever'? Why doesn't the rest of the science world sponsor the idea so that we can get them in all our homes?

I am saddened by how many gullible people ther is in the world.

Me too! You are smart enough to build something few have yet not clever enough to figure out that there may be far more to the area of discovery than you know? This type of arrogance is part and parcel of why it's so hard to get the truth out....

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

Your "truth" is based on mythology, you said it yourself. Tesla's myth is even larger than the zero point energy freaks so don't use Tesla as an example.
Why don't we wait and see how many patents on free energy pass through the new patent requirements and then make up our minds if this is a viable source of energy...Anything short of a working model is...mythology

reply to post by TheRedneck

Aluminum supplies are vast, and if you calculate the recycle cost using this new hydrogen technology instead of conventional means it becomes much more affordable by 4 times.
Also don't forget the cost of gallium is minimal considered it does not get wasted in the process only the aluminum does, so gallium is a one time purchase pretty much.

Could you explain the chemical process that is involved in this method?

I am intrigued, yet skeptical..

Originally posted by stumason
Could you explain the chemical process that is involved in this method?

I am intrigued, yet skeptical..

Nobody can explain it beter than the inventor himself Dr.Jerry Woodall
from Purdue university
hydrogen.ecn.purdue.edu...

but the quick and dirty of it is that the alloy created with aluminum and gallium when submerged in water splits the water and releases hydrogen.
does not need electricity.
the best part about it is that hydrogen can be made on demand and not need to be stored in tanks (read, bombs) also aluminum is plentiful and relatively cheap.

I found the PDF after I posted, thanks

Not sure if I read it correctly, but it seems the alloy/water mixture needs to be heated. By what process is this done?

Also, the cost looks prohibitive, to me at least. It's all very well saying that if re-processed it can be as cheap as dirt, but you need to build that infrastructure first, which costs mucho wedge.

Another flaw pops into my mind. He says that there is enough Al reserves to supply the USA's electric needs for 50 years.

What about the rest of the world?

With the whole globe wanting a slice to generate electricity for homes plus using this to power vehicles as well, I don't see global Al supplies lasting much beyond the middle of the century, to be honest.

In short, this would only work as long as no-one else did it.

reply to post by stumason

it only needs to be heated to combine the gallium and aluminum into an alloy. gallium melts at 75f so literally melts in your hand, aluminum melts at 660f this would be a one time thing. once the alloy is made you can simply drop a piece of it in water and it will begin bubbling. I've done it.


[edit on 6-5-2008 by blimpseeker]

reply to post by blimpseeker


Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt for a second that this works, I'm just querying whether it is viable as a large scale means of providing a dynamic, safe hydrogen source.

With the global proven reserves, the USA alone would use it all up within 50 years and thats just generating electricity, not including any used to provide energy for motor vehicles. In essence, it has a shorter shelf life than hydrocarbons.

Also, it may be cost effective now, but what if it did take off globally? The cost of Al would skyrocket!

This just isn't commercially viable, I'm afraid. On a small, local scale, maybe, but not as a wholesale measure in generating energy.

Wow, this is one of the first links from ATS that actually doesn't come off as crazy.

That's pretty cool and easy to understand, the aluminum oxidizes, and releases the hydrogen as a byproduct. When you put an alkali metal in water, it does the same thing, except it also gets hot enough to ignite it. There is a huge amount of energy locked up in metallic aluminum. Thermite, for example, is an aluminum oxidation reaction.

Problem is, aluminum is expensive, reprocessing takes a huge infrastructure, and requires far more energy than this process releases. Woodall obviously intends this to be used to make an easily transportable, recyclable, electricity free hydrogen storage process and source. Might be better just to stockpile gallium, and get your aluminum through foraging. The stuff is everywhere, and almost nobody else will be hoarding and using it.

The gas given off by this won't be as ideal for fuel cells as that given by electrolysis, because this will be pure hydrogen, instead of a stoichiometric ratio of hydrogen and oxygen. You'll need advanced fuel cells that aren't "poisoned" by carbon dioxide or water vapor, because you're going to need atmospheric oxygen. This little trick might be more useful when/if fuel cells come into wide use.

also: hydrogen isn't that great of a fuel to begin with. Some things, like rotary engines will run it without modification, but hydrogen is not very energy dense. You'll need many cubic meters of it to run a generator or anything like that. stockpiling high pressure tanks and pumps is a bit high end for most people, so they'll have to do it on-demand, which doesn't lead well to automation.

Might be useful to just stockpile gallium, and a whole bunch of gasoline, and devices which can run on pure hydrogen and air.

reply to post by mdiinican


That is what I am doing, buying galium and hording it
I am also at the point to wher my genny is running on hydrogen made on demand. still haven't got it to the point where I can generate enough to keep up with it at a high rpm i think i have to get a larger volume tank and double my production rate.