Question about Freemasonry

Hello,

I have a question for any Freemasons on the board. I'm very interested in Freemasonry, and would like to petition some time in the future.

I was kind of worried about one thing. I read on Wikipedia: "be quiet and peaceable citizens, true to the lawful government of the country in which they live, and not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion."

What do you think about that? It could have been argued that the Nazi Party was the lawful government of Germany. Would it have been wrong for a Freemason to oppose them? I know masons were persecuted by the Nazi's, just using this as an example.

Some of the founding fathers were masons, and they did more than just protest against the British.

Any opinions appreciated!

Thank you

[edit on 26-4-2008 by FuZe7]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by FuZe7]

reply to post by FuZe7


In order to understand the masons, you need to understand that they operate in a specific manner befitting that of a group of individuals doing the work of God.

I think they're interested in keeping society the way it is for the time being, don't you?

Let's not speculate on matters we don't know about.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant



Ahhh, don't be to hasty. The first rule of learning is there are no useless questions. The Masons here at ATS do their very best to answer questions asked in the SS forums and I suspect the OP will be pleased at the reception his questions garner.

Can YOU add some insight to the OPs questions? Are you a Mason? No? That's okay, me either!


So, I look forward to the answers he will get.

@ FuZe7- Good questions.

reply to post by Cuhail


Thank you sir!

I just registered, but I have been looking around the ATS forum for a while. I'm amazed at how interesting it is.

Originally posted by Cuhail

Can YOU add some insight to the OPs questions? Are you a Mason? No? That's okay, me either!

Unfortunately, i am not parley to such insider facts because you are correct, i am not a mason.

Of course, that doesn't mean i am not aware of the wealth of speculative theories and possibilities that are available - such as the shared masonic and catholic roots in the ancient Sun cult of Ra for example.

One cannot help but wonder as to the credibility of the information being provided by the masons on this board, what with so many different possibilities out there.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant


One cannot help but wonder as to the credibility of the information being provided by the masons on this board, what with so many different possibilities out there.

Very true. Have a listen to what the ATS Masons have to say. But also have a listen to what ATS non-Mason researchers (like myself) have to say. I recommend reading the chapter "The Free Masons" in my book, The Atlantean Conspiracy

[snip]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by freight tomsen]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by freight tomsen]


Mod Edit - No Advertising.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by elevatedone]

reply to post by FuZe7


That part of the Charge is interpreted to apply to lawful government (by consent of the governed). Tyrannies such as Nazi Germany do not count.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
One cannot help but wonder as to the credibility of the information being provided by the masons on this board, what with so many different possibilities out there.

Indeed there are! The origins of freemasonry are endlessly speculated upon, not least by freemasons themselves. But you have to remember most freemasons are something else first, and not primarily defined by their membership. There is a huge range of knowledge even within the Craft, and of course, in an organization that encourages people to find their own path the responses will vary enormously.

However, some things are known knowns (as opposed to known unknowns or even unknown unknowns ) and most freemasons on this board will answer questions honesty, to the best of their ability and experience, and avoid absolutes and pejoratives.

There are also many well-educated and intelligent non-masons on this board too, who have developed a well-rounded understanding of freemasonry and its role in 21st century Conspiracy Theory.

However at the end of the day everyone has to reach their own conclusions about things, based on their own research, and that's probably the most sensible way to tackle any subject. Remember we all approach any topic from our own unique perspective and sometimes I'm surprised when any of us can actually agree on anything

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
In order to understand the masons, you need to understand that they operate in a specific manner befitting that of a group of individuals doing the work of God.

I think they're interested in keeping society the way it is for the time being, don't you?

I think it's important to understand that there's no "pack mentality" within freemasonry. Everyone does their own thing within the framework provided. Freemasonry as a concept has no interest beyond its own four walls, so to believe it has a "corporate agenda" is as far off track as it is possible to be. The only orchestrated activities I have seen within freemasonry are the charitable ones, and even these are driven by the lessons of Charity within the individual - large sums of money pouring into the wider community is merely a by-product of this.

Individual freemasons of course have their own opinions, highly diverse and often at both ends of any given spectrum. One of the reasons why politics and religion is banned from discussion at lodge it because of its potentially divisive nature and consequently its huge potential to disrupt the real business of freemasonry - Harmony, Fellowship and Personal Growth. Freemasonry allows us to focus on what we have in common, not what divides us.

You also have to understand that each mason on the ATS board joined for a different reason, and see's freemasonry, through a completely different perspective. Of course you’re going to get different opinions on freemasonry, because freemasonry is sort of what you make it. In that sense freemasonry is subjective. Everyone gets something a little different out of freemasonry. Hence why you will have masons on this forum, giving different aspects of masonry

One thing for sure is that we do not talk business, politics and religious differences in our lodge. We do talk the business of the lodge and our charitable activities we do, but not outside business. Of Course you can talk about those matters outside of the lodge, but it is not discussed within our lodge. Also I will tell you this that I have never met a mean or angry mason. All the masons I have met allover the world have always been sincere and generous.

There are a deal of good masons and non-masons on this forum who have good intellect and a lot of good information for you. But I implore you to go with your gut feeling on if you want o join or not because it is of your own freewill and accord that decides for you to join. So take in all the information you can and come up with a good conclusion in your mind frame that will decide YOUR decision on joining.

IMO, I will never regret the day I joined my lodge, and I have gained so much for joining, in which it has truly enhanced my life.

Originally posted by bushidomason
1: Hence why you will have masons on this forum, giving different aspects of masonry

2: All the masons I have met allover the world have always been sincere and generous.

1: Hench also why there are individuals out there whom have some pretty wacky ideas about the issue of the origins of freemasonry.

2: You mean, all the masons you have met all over the world have always been sincere and generous to you.

Freemasonry is supposed to be subjective, right?



I'm half tempted to join the masons just to see what all the fuss is about.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant

Originally posted by bushidomason
1: Hence why you will have masons on this forum, giving different aspects of masonry

2: All the masons I have met allover the world have always been sincere and generous.

1: Hench also why there are individuals out there whom have some pretty wacky ideas about the issue of the origins of freemasonry.

2: You mean, all the masons you have met all over the world have always been sincere and generous to you.

Freemasonry is supposed to be subjective, right?

I'm half tempted to join the masons just to see what all the fuss is about.

Yes to me and others they come in contact with.
But yes your right it is very subjective. Through what I have seen Masons from all over are nice to anyone they come in contact with and try to set a good example for our fraternity.

I would say go ahead. See what the "fuss" is all about. As you will see there is no "fuss” but just good & simple brotherhood.

reply to post by bushidomason


My problem is thus;

Why is it nessecary for a group of people to call themselves brothers in order for them to carry out acts of good?

Surely it would be better to throw open the seams of the curtains, let everyone see what's going on, and from that they can see for themselves that you don't need to be special in order to help others.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
reply to post by bushidomason

 

My problem is thus;

Why is it nessecary for a group of people to call themselves brothers in order for them to carry out acts of good?

Surely it would be better to throw open the seams of the curtains, let everyone see what's going on, and from that they can see for themselves that you don't need to be special in order to help others.

We call each other brothers because we are bonded by a universal bond with all of the people who went through the same degrees and shared the same experiences as all brothers did going through the degrees of becoming a master mason.

Also no one tells you to become a mason. You can help people and do act's of good without joining any group. We just like sharing the brotherhood and having a special bond or family that we can relate to. Well anyone can see what’s "behind the curtains" just join? no one is special i don’t think your getting the point that we choose to do this, just like as the red cross chooses to help people in their own way and under their own banner. It's just another way to help people.

reply to post by bushidomason


Yes, it is just another way to help people.

My point is, what makes your way better than the way that, for example; the Red Cross chooses?

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
reply to post by bushidomason

 

Yes, it is just another way to help people.

My point is, what makes your way better than the way that, for example; the Red Cross chooses?

We never said it was a better way?
We just have another way of doing it just as the Red Cross does?

Like I said no one forces you to join to help people. People should help people because it’s the right thing to do. We just like to support the community as a whole.

That is all

Well, i have one more question - Would your organisation, your brotherhood ever consider supporting the efforts of a group like the red cross?

In more detail, do you work as a stand-alone organisation, or do you help others to help others?

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


Well of course masons support anything that benefits mankind in general.
We have our own hospitals and care centers as well
The Shriner Burn hospitals and hospitals that are open to kids 17 and under that are completely FREE.
There is not one cash register in the entire hospital and will take any kid.
As far as helping the Red Cross i don’t know on that aspect because we never talk about it i was just using it as an example to helping the community.


Shriner's Hospital
Shriner's Hosptial

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Well, i have one more question - Would your organisation, your brotherhood ever consider supporting the efforts of a group like the red cross?

"During times of crisis, we often look to the Grand Charity for support because we know it is committed to alleviating human suffering and will consider contributing to disasters which are often overlooked by the media. We are extremely grateful for its generous and committed support"

Sir Nicholas Young, Chief Executive, British Red Cross Society

The Grand Charity is the charitable arm of the United Grand Lodge of England. You can visit it's website at www.grandcharity.org...

reply to post by bushidomason


I guess i am being somewhat pessimistic about your group.

It's in my nature as a scholar of social subversion and the methods of deflecting it, of course.

Edit; When it comes down to it, when i look at a group likes yours all i see is a method of control for those who would take advantage of it.

I find it quite difficult to trust people who have power, you may have noticed.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]