Capitalism, the greatest gift to mankind

Capitalism puts money into the reach of everyone that are willing and able.

Money is freedom, the more you have the more free you are
Freedom doesn’t mean not working, it means working at what you want to do, and being more productive.

Socialism and Communism keep money out of people’s hands. Without money, there is no freedom and no reason to live, other than for the collective good, like beasts of burden.

Many people are fooled into believing that everyone would be equal under communism, which is true, everyone would be equally subject to the state control over their lives, their movements, their food allotments, their work assignments, everything.

It would be like being in school for the rest of your life, you would be told what to do every single day of your life.

Oh, that would be fun.

reply to post by gdeed


What is willing to work when there aint no money to make money or no jobs?

Capitalism is drowning all who are left out of the money ring. Only way for it to work for all is to also add hourly labor of different worth to the backing of the dollar. That way any one just about will find a job where they can cause the backing of the very money they earn as in have work credit convert into government legal tender money currency.

Originally posted by Mabus
What is willing to work when there aint no money to make money or no jobs?

That’s what happens when we vote into office those people that like to tax mom and pop companies out of business or run them out of the country.

When we punish corporations for making profits, profits that are used to create jobs and oportniuties for others companies move overseas or go bankrupt.

When we bite the hand that feeds us, which is Capitalism, we get less Capitalism and less jobs and less opportunities and less money, and money is freedom.

When the Beatles sang “money doesn’t buy love” they knew not what they talked about.

Try finding love or anything else if you don’t have money, will not happen, money makes the world go round and makes people happy.

If you want to see what lack of money does to people go to any third world country were all the people have no money and are equal, bloated guts, and being eaten by flies, that equal but poor stuff is pure hell.

"Any mention of capitalism induces many people to lapse into sentimentality... We're taught a few things about capitalism... we're taught that it is a system that works. It is a system that has brought us prosperity. We've heard that all our lives.

Now, I'm going to try and convince you otherwise, and I'm going to do it in 2 minutes..." (see video for his argument)

- Michael Parenti

Google Video Link

Originally posted by ianr5741
- Michael Parenti

Michael Parenti is simply another rich spoiled kid that hates Capitalism. Selling his books and lectures to other rich spoiled kids and making lots of money along the way.

Fidel Castro was a spoiled rich kid and he too talked his foolish countrymen into running out the Capitalists. And Cubans have lived worse than cattle ever since.

Cubans have no freedom to go anywhere, they have poverty all their lives, they have no hope, but they do get a full diet of leftwing propaganda day in and day out. Maybe that is all some people need.

Um... Parenti was raised in a very poor family.

Ad hominem attack, anyone? How about listening to what he says and giving a response to it.

Sorry gdeed but that is such a grotesque, idealised generalisation. Seriously WTF.

"Money is freedom, the more you have the more free you are "
So freedom is like money in that some people have more of it than others?

Just because capitalism is the prevalent system today dosnt mean its perfect. So who are you? What experience of life have you had under capitalism for you to be trumpeting its virtues out loud?

Would you be championing it if you were a down-and-out on the streets of Madrid where only a few miles away mounds of vegtables rot as there is not market to sell them? Or a River Blindness victim who day by day is being robbed of their eyesight by a curable disease while vaccines and medicines gather dust in a wharehouse in the nearest city, only your too poor to afford them?

Capitalism will never satisfy human needs becuase things are produced TO SELL FOR A PROFIT. Not because they are directly needed. If there is no market for something then it wont happen.
Thats why there are people dying of curable dieases,
Thats why people are going hungry while their countrys produce is shipped off to feed rich westerners,
Thats why we are not colonising space right now.

Capitalism can work. But it IS flawed.

Capitalism, has shown it is crap. How many starved to death since ww2, because of mans greed. They should of let nazis win, and germany would of solved worlds problems, before now.

If you think starving millions of people to death is a good system thats your problem.

reply to post by gdeed


gdeed and I have our differences but I embrace the spirit of capitalism.
I feel I am a very successful entrepreneur/business owner. I don't know that the opportunity offered me could have transpired anywhere other than the USofA. Perhaps that's why I don't resent paying taxes to keep the infrastructure and "work ethic" spirit alive.

I do resent payin taxes to "rebuild" other countries, corporate bailouts, corporate welfare and preferential treatment to the corporate elite, when we have problems that need to be addressed that require money in the form of taxes. Especially when those corperations ship mfg. plants overseas, outsourcing jobs that American's once had, then show record profits and hide the taxable money in foreign accounts. To me that is economic treason.



[edit on 22-4-2008 by whaaa]

Originally posted by ianr5741

Um... Parenti was raised in a very poor family.

If so then what is his beef? Does he want everyone to be poor? I was poor too, and I hated being poor. I think everyone should get a chance to not be poor. Only Capitalism can give them that chance.

Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist
So freedom is like money in that some people have more of it than others?

In a perfect world that is how it works because we are not cattle or cookie cutter human beings, we are all different and require different things and different amounts of freedom

Just because capitalism is the prevalent system today dosnt mean its perfect.

It’s the only system that creates the most freedom, for those who like freedom that is. Not everyone likes freedom, but who are they to tell me how much freedom I should have?

So who are you? What experience of life have you had under capitalism for you to be trumpeting its virtues out loud?

I’m the average Joe, and it’s obvious to me what works and what doesn’t work.

Would you be championing it if you were a down-and-out on the streets of Madrid where only a few miles away mounds of vegtables rot as there is not market to sell them? Or a River Blindness victim who day by day is being robbed of their eyesight by a curable disease while vaccines and medicines gather dust in a wharehouse in the nearest city, only your too poor to afford them?

It’s for those very reasons that I champion Capitalism. People have been victims of Socialism and communisms long enough.

Capitalism will never satisfy human needs

Because too many people have sold their souls to the leftwing ideology. Which is very sad, but there is still hope!

Money is the antigen of freedom..... meaning that it kills freedom! Capitalism is slavery. It is playing off the old and outdated Social Darwinist model... survival of the fittest. And what about everybody else? Well they are the food for the fittest.

This isn't survival of the fittest. We are a social species. We are supposed to support one another. All capitalism does is give permission to those who want to horde wealth to do so. Whaaa, say you sacrificed half of your earnings in order to help out those who are less fortunate than you. You'd lose a lot of your luxuries, but you'd strengthen the community as a whole. Would you do it? Or do you enjoy hording because it enables you to turn a blind eye? Which type of person are you? And ummm which type of person do you think would more commonly support capitalism? Someone who wants what they don't need, reguardless of the suffering of others? or someone who works in service of others because it is the right thing to do?

Originally posted by andy1033
Capitalism, has shown it is crap. How many starved to death since ww2, because of mans greed.

Millions starved under Stalin and his communistic utopia before and after the war. That communistic utopia spread like a plague around the world and remains a plague of poverty and disease to this day.

Many people brought that plague onto themselves when they put demons like Stalin, Castro and Chaves into power.

reply to post by gdeed


I never said communism, would of done better, i said you should of let nazi germany win. Maybe today the world may of fixed its problems by now.

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist
So freedom is like money in that some people have more of it than others?

In a perfect world that is how it works because we are not cattle or cookie cutter human beings, we are all different and require different things and different amounts of freedom

Just because capitalism is the prevalent system today dosnt mean its perfect.

It’s the only system that creates the most freedom, for those who like freedom that is. Not everyone likes freedom, but who are they to tell me how much freedom I should have?

So who are you? What experience of life have you had under capitalism for you to be trumpeting its virtues out loud?

I’m the average Joe, and it’s obvious to me what works and what doesn’t work.

Would you be championing it if you were a down-and-out on the streets of Madrid where only a few miles away mounds of vegtables rot as there is not market to sell them? Or a River Blindness victim who day by day is being robbed of their eyesight by a curable disease while vaccines and medicines gather dust in a wharehouse in the nearest city, only your too poor to afford them?

It’s for those very reasons that I champion Capitalism. People have been victims of Socialism and communisms long enough.

Capitalism will never satisfy human needs

Because too many people have sold their souls to the leftwing ideology. Which is very sad, but there is still hope!

You might like to know there has never been one communist/socialist country in existence, ever, on the face of planet in all human history.

The Soviet Union and more recently the rise of China is an example of 'state capitalism' - the government owns and controls all of the enterprise, having extraordinary control over the flow of money.

Now, I agree with you to an extent that capitalism can be a good thing. However, why do we have a food crisis? An energy crisis? Why is the environment so $%^#ed up? Because capitalism has told everyone to consume as much as they can - drive your big cars, have a huge family, eat at multinational fast-food restaurants.

You said that capitalism gives everyone who wants to work a chance in life. Well, what about Ethiopia? Sudan? Should we intervene there, or is it because they don't have enough oil to make the trip worthwhile? Once India's and China's population want everything that WE already have, the strain is going to increase massively. That's over 2 billion people all wanting fast cars and waffle irons.

Most importantly, the modern capitalist system is based on keeping you up to your knees in debt. That's why there is a global credit armageddon - the banks have gotten greedy and over-lent to people who thought they could repay their loans, but then have had their house and plasma TVs taken away from them. Do you have a mortgage? I'm still a student so luckily I don't, but the mortgage is the dagger over your head that the banks use to exercise control. If the economy goes too fast, they up the interest rates, and you pay more for a loan that you may have taken out 5 years ago. How is that a fair system?

The government in a capitalist society doesn't run things, it is not designed to. The banks control the distribution of wealth. Advertising and marketing, and retail is there to take it. In such an arrangement that is aimed at making people go into debt, I can't see how really free in can be.

Sure we can have a multitude of consumer goods, but that won't last forever. If we don't find other energy sources besides oil, the whole system will groan and bust open. Look at oil now, it's already nudging $120, that's a 5x increase since 2002! And the average Westerner (of which I am myself) wonders why the heck he is paying more for his petrol/gas, all because of global factors that capitalism tries to get him not to think about. All he should focus on is he mortgage and his fuel tank.

Also, I don't particularly like being referred to as a 'consumer' by economic analysts in a capitalist society.

I'm a person, a human being, not a unit of measure known as a 'consumer'.

I have found that the degree to which one praises capitalism is directly proportional to how well capitalism has worked for them.


From a the viewpoint of social darwinism, those "poor", "dumb" souls who cannot understand the capitalist system or use it to their advantage are statistically more likely to suffer or die in a world dominated by capitalism.


If understanding and working within the framework of capitalism should be the determining factor of whether or not a person survives in this world (survival of the fittest), then lets see what characteristics might further their chance for survival, making them a more fit creature for living in the world today:



- A person who survives in a capitalist world has a greater chance of surviving if they are selfish,
- Interested primarily in profit
- Have a disregard for the suffering of others
- Permit the decline of the environment as long as it doesn't affect them personally
- Have thoughts focused on taking more than giving
- Are not concerned with the effects of their activities if they come about after their lifetime
- Maintain only relationships which have the potential for profit
- Deceive when convenient
- Experience no guilt
- Break the law if the reward is likely to outweigh the risk.


Now, assuming that you have some belief that behavioral characteristics are inherited, do you think the human race could survive for any significant length of time if the favored members of its population began to gradually take on these characteristics, generation after generation?

Originally posted by mattguy404
You might like to know there has never been one communist/socialist country in existence, ever, on the face of planet in all human history.

I did go to college and I noticed that many if not most professors are leftwing, and that is what they have been teaching. They are very convincing with their leftwing propaganda and attempts to rewrite history because a lot of people believe as you do.

The Soviet Union and more recently the rise of China is an example of 'state capitalism' - the government owns and controls all of the enterprise, having extraordinary control over the flow of money.

Russia and China have been in poverty for so long they finally wised up a little, and figure out that the only way to put food on the table is via Capitalism. Unfortunately they only dabble in it and can become communistic tyrants at any moment. But probably not until they fill their coffers with Capitalistic cash.

Now, I agree with you to an extent that capitalism can be a good thing. However, why do we have a food crisis? An energy crisis?

Bureaucracy and the left leaning congress

Why is the environment so $%^#ed up?

Because people are only human and filled with flaws, has nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism is an idea, not sure what people are.

Because capitalism has told everyone to consume as much as they can - drive your big cars, have a huge family, eat at multinational fast-food restaurants.

Ideologies like Capitalism have no power over anyone, and they certainly don’t talk nor tell me what to do. I do what I want to do, within the law.

You said that capitalism gives everyone who wants to work a chance in life. Well, what about Ethiopia? Sudan?

Their problems are that they have no Capitalism, if they did they would have good living conditions.

Should we intervene there, or is it because they don't have enough oil to make the trip

If America intervened, we would be called imperial fascist pigs by the leftwing. The left would rather such countries wallow in hell like conditions.

Once India's and China's population want everything that WE already have, the strain is going to increase massively. That's over 2 billion people all wanting fast cars and waffle irons.

There is plenty to go around. Once we run out of oil we will use other energy sources created in Capitalistic labs.

Most importantly, the modern capitalist system is based on keeping you up to your knees in debt. That's why there is a global credit armageddon - the banks have gotten greedy and over-lent to people who thought they could repay their loans, but then have had their house and plasma TVs taken away from them. Do you have a mortgage? I'm still a student so luckily I don't, but the mortgage is the dagger over your head that the banks use to exercise control. If the economy goes too fast, they up the interest rates, and you pay more for a loan that you may have taken out 5 years ago. How is that a fair system?

Yeah one of my college professors use left hyperbole such as that on my class, some actually believed her.

Most people don’t read what they sign when they borrow money. They don’t read it because they don’t understand it. My advice is if you don’t understand a contract don’t sign it. Our education system owned by the teacher’s union is keeping Americans dumbed down.

"It’s for those very reasons that I champion Capitalism. People have been victims of Socialism and communisms long enough. "

So you attribute the problems of all the worlds poor and side-lined to "communisms"?.

I think you miss read what i said, in capitalism, people get what they need only if they have the money. The examples i gave have nothing to do with what you may call "communism". (having said that, what DO you think communism is?) The reason they are in the state they are in is becuase capitalism has failed to provide for them nor given them any practical means to help themselves.

Do you undersand the basic principles of capitalism as a system? If things are not made and jobs not done its becuase there is no market for them.
The clothes you are wearing, the grain in your bread, the computer you were typing on? they were all produced, by people, to sell on a market. And the only reason they went to the effort of making them is to get profit from doing so. Actual, practical need, comes second.

It CANNOT satisfy everyone becuase there are some people in the world where it is not "profitable" to help. Stop using a misguided straw-man theory of communism to blame for all the worlds misgivings and give some genuine thought as to why the world might be in the state its in.

reply to post by gdeed


I never mentioned I prescribe to 'left wing propaganda', and I consider myself fairly neutral.

In relation to the climate, yes people do have flaws, but people on their own don't spew forth massive amounts of industrial pollution.

Originally posted by gdeed

reply to post by gdeed

 

There is plenty to go around. Once we run out of oil we will use other energy sources created in Capitalistic labs.

And that's where I will end making any logical argument with you. A statement like that just goes against all reasoning. Where or what are these 'capitalistic labs'? Something is just going to 'come along' is it, like magic?

Those 'capitalistic labs' would control whatever new energy they're supposedly going to come up with and the whole cycle of control will start over again. It's those same 'capitalistic labs' that are working to control the world's seeds and means of food production - farmers in India are literally hanging themselves because seeds gathered from their previous crops do not germinate because they have been genetically modified.

And that's not 'lefty propaganda', it's just fact.

Wake up man, it's not all roses. You can be self-righteous and as right-leaning as you freely want to be, but don't ignore the facts.

If you ignore facts, you'll just become ignorant.

Originally posted by ianr5741

I have found that the degree to which one praises capitalism is directly proportional to how well capitalism has worked for them.

Or perhaps they are aware how Communism and Socialism doesn’t work well at all without Capitalism

From a the viewpoint of social darwinism, those "poor", "dumb" souls who cannot understand the capitalist system or use it to their advantage are statistically more likely to suffer or die in a world dominated by capitalism.

Those poor dumb souls fair 100 % better if they live in a Capitalistic country. I have often wondered why I don’t sell my house and move into public housing and get my welfare credit card. Everything else is also free, healthcare, transportation, education, etc.

There are two new Section 8 housing complexes in my neighborhood and the people in them live better than I do. I have to mow my lawn, fix the plumbing, the roof, the water heater, the furnace, it never ends.

The so called poor in America have it great! I doubt the Communist Chinese would pamper such people like we do here in the states. They would put them in labor camps.

Leftwing compassion is labor camps

Capitalists compassion is New welfare housing, free food, free health, free transportation and all the other things that make life worth living like cable television, every kind of restaurant and other recreational things available in Capitalistic countries to those who live in those countries regardless of income.

The so called poor are better off than most middle class Americans because they don’t have to do the work and yet they have the same benefits.