God Of Gods.

reply to post by miriam0566

yes it does... it was a prophecy refering to J.C.'s kingdom.

Ummmm *scratches head*
I am not getting your logic here.
Is J.C. or is J.C. not the son of god in your belief?
And is he or is he not since he is the son of god more or less more important than Daniel?
I mean, come on. Your telling me that what someone else says has an impact on someone else's contexts and of course Daniel is AFTER J.C. and what J.C. said.

matt 4:[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

gegraptai gar kurion ton qeon sou proskunhseis kai autw monw latreuseis (greek interlinear)

it-HAS-been-WRITTEN for Master THE God OF-YOU YOU-SHALL-BE-worshipING AND to-Him ONLY YOU-SHALL-BE-offerING-DIVINE-SERVICE

in the original greek with no edits.

Sounds like J.C. is telling the Devil here that HE (the Devil) serves his God. As opposed to what your trying to say it says.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Ummmm *scratches head*
I am not getting your logic here.
Is J.C. or is J.C. not the son of god in your belief?
And is he or is he not since he is the son of god more or less more important than Daniel?
I mean, come on. Your telling me that what someone else says has an impact on someone else's contexts and of course Daniel is AFTER J.C. and what J.C. said.

daniel was god´s prophet. if from god, then it would make sense that his message would be in harmony with what jesus said.

daniel chapter 2 goes into a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about a statue. the different parts of the statue represented different world empires. at the end of the dream, a stone is cut from a mountain and destroys the statue

dan 2:[44] And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
[45] Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

yes the time at which daniel was written is contested, but both dates are well BEFORE jesus.

in short... the kingdom of god is a real kingdom. not a metaphor

it-HAS-been-WRITTEN for Master THE God OF-YOU YOU-SHALL-BE-worshipING AND to-Him ONLY YOU-SHALL-BE-offerING-DIVINE-SERVICE

in the original greek with no edits.

Sounds like J.C. is telling the Devil here that HE (the Devil) serves his God. As opposed to what your trying to say it says.

first, that would make no sense considering the conversation.... satan says wroship me, and jesus replies serve your god?

¨it has been written¨ one word. similiar to spanish actually.
¨for master the god¨ definate article talking about a particular person.
¨of you¨ possesive form of you.
¨you shall be worshiping¨ conjigated form of worshipping

jesus is quoting a hebrew scripture.

so if jesus felt that anyone can worship anything and its ok? then why quote a scripture that says different?

reply to post by miriam0566

2 corinthians 4:4 satan is the ¨god of the world¨

In 1st Corinthians 10:16 it says the earth is the Lord's.
Verse 5 in Exodus 19 also says the same,as does verse 1 in Psalms 24.

So if the earth is the Lord's does that mean he has allowed Satan to become a god?




[edit on 26-4-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by OmegaLogos

and jesus at the minimum was and is an angel albeit with a very brief human stint and he is supposed to rule over mankind as a king

Does the Bible say that Jesus was an Angel?

If you look at the start of John it says that the Word was with God at the beginning of everything,that means he was around before the Angels were.
John 1:3 also says that all things were created by him.

reply to post by WraothAscendant

Sounds like J.C. is telling the Devil here that HE (the Devil) serves his God.

Which God are we talking about?

Do you mean Jesus serves one god and Satan another?

Or am a totally missing what you mean?

reply to post by jakyll


He was saying the Devil still Jehovah aka the Christian God. You know, Jehovah is still his master.

reply to post by miriam0566

yes the time at which daniel was written is contested, but both dates are well BEFORE jesus.

Ho ho ho then. Wasn't Jesus supposed to make the old testament obsolete?
And he was commenting about someone comments in the future?
Whoa.

in short... the kingdom of god is a real kingdom. not a metaphor

In short. That is what you want it to mean, thusly that is what it means. Too bad reality doesn't work like that too much.

first, that would make no sense considering the conversation.... satan says wroship me, and jesus replies serve your god?

¨it has been written¨ one word. similiar to spanish actually.
¨for master the god¨ definate article talking about a particular person.
¨of you¨ possesive form of you.
¨you shall be worshiping¨ conjigated form of worshipping

jesus is quoting a hebrew scripture.

Obviously twisting statements to mean what they want is not a atheistic trait.

I said in a admittedly murky way, Jesus replied that the Devil STILL serves Jehovah aka the Christian God. Which is a perfectly valid response, you know, : "Worship me." "I think not, I serve the one who is your master still."

so if jesus felt that anyone can worship anything and its ok? then why quote a scripture that says different?

You know. Your not listening to a dang thing I am saying obviously. I am saying for the umpteeth time there is evidence of later EDITING.
And for not being a practicing Christian you sure are upholding rather hot and heavy a certain interpretation that lends itself towards Churches and control.

And all you can answer is comments from Daniel to refute my statements.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


Yup,with ya now.lol.

I sometimes think that Satan still works for God.
After all,his job in Heaven was to test the faith of mankind and isn't that what he is still doing?


If God creates mankind as perfect sinless creatures then they will love God because they have been created that way,which means that the love they give would be hollow and worthless.
If God can test the strength of man's love then He will know that it is true,that it is of worth.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by miriam0566

 

2 corinthians 4:4 satan is the ¨god of the world¨

In 1st Corinthians 10:16 it says the earth is the Lord's.
Verse 5 in Exodus 19 also says the same,as does verse 1 in Psalms 24.

So if the earth is the Lord's does that mean he has allowed Satan to become a god?

in effect, yes... that is why satan was even able to offer jesus the kingdoms of the earth, because it is his.

GOD did this to allow satan to prove his point. this also is the reason the world is so screwed up

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Ho ho ho then. Wasn't Jesus supposed to make the old testament obsolete?
And he was commenting about someone comments in the future?
Whoa.

no jesus furfilled the law, he didnt make the law obsolete.... there is a difference.

besides the prophets are not the law. (lev, deut, etc etc) and they are very importantbecause they even make prophecies regarding our time.

in short... the kingdom of god is a real kingdom. not a metaphor

In short. That is what you want it to mean, thusly that is what it means. Too bad reality doesn't work like that too much.

and yet, you provide no references to say otherwise... you are telling me you opinion based on what?

if you want me post more about the kingdom of god just say so....

first, that would make no sense considering the conversation.... satan says wroship me, and jesus replies serve your god?

¨it has been written¨ one word. similiar to spanish actually.
¨for master the god¨ definate article talking about a particular person.
¨of you¨ possesive form of you.
¨you shall be worshiping¨ conjigated form of worshipping

jesus is quoting a hebrew scripture.

Obviously twisting statements to mean what they want is not a atheistic trait.

I said in a admittedly murky way, Jesus replied that the Devil STILL serves Jehovah aka the Christian God. Which is a perfectly valid response, you know, : "Worship me." "I think not, I serve the one who is your master still."

where do get that? the statement is in plain greek. simple. jesus was quoting a scripture.

the way you looking at the scripture leaves out "it has been written". why? because if you included that part your entire arguement falls apart.

why would satan even tempt jesus if he was on the same side as him. its ridiculas

You know. Your not listening to a dang thing I am saying obviously. I am saying for the umpteeth time there is evidence of later EDITING.
And for not being a practicing Christian you sure are upholding rather hot and heavy a certain interpretation that lends itself towards Churches and control.

And all you can answer is comments from Daniel to refute my statements.

editing? where?!?! im quoting from the original greek....

im not upholding anything... what the scriptures say is simple, easy to understand... theres no mystery to it. you add this fog to it.

i could make an exhaustive thread (like i did on the trinity) that shows that god doesnt want people to worship anyone but himself. i could include tons of things jesus said to that same affect... im just scared i'd have to do the whole thing in greek less you cry "editing!"

reply to post by jakyll


Your are right to question me here as I felt it was a little dodgy pulling that one!

1st to answer you. I don't know I'm not a scriptural genius so I wont even try instead I will clarify That A) I shouldn't of used the word "angel" in that context and B) instead should of used the words "heavenly being". I hope this rectifies your concerns in this matter

Personal Disclosure: Good! someone got me pulling a fast one . DENY IGNORANCE 1st . They denied me to be possibly misleading you! well done.

edited to correct a mistake of gender identification of jakyll from "He" to "They"

[edit on 27-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]

reply to post by miriam0566

no jesus furfilled the law, he didnt make the law obsolete.... there is a difference.

So what happend to the dietary laws?
And etc?
You know all the laws that followers of Judhism still follow to this day?

besides the prophets are not the law. (lev, deut, etc etc) and they are very importantbecause they even make prophecies regarding our time.

They didn't? Since when other than Moses and even then did the Christian god ever give commandments personally to all the people?

And when you get down to it humanity is posessed of a certain ability to lie and twist things, sometimes, heck usually without even knowing we are doing it.
Case in point how many of the great "evil" men in history actually thought they were evil? Not many.

Maybe thats the basis of our disagreement. You allow for excusions of the above nasty little fact of nature.
I don't.

and yet, you provide no references to say otherwise... you are telling me you opinion based on what?

if you want me post more about the kingdom of god just say so....
where do get that? the statement is in plain greek. simple. jesus was quoting a scripture.

the way you looking at the scripture leaves out "it has been written". why? because if you included that part your entire arguement falls apart.

why would satan even tempt jesus if he was on the same side as him. its ridiculas

1) Sorry please no more inference or able to be interpreted otherwise passages.
2) Not a Christian remember? So I don't exactly have your holy book memorised. Not that I need to seeing as to how you are providing me with the basis of my statements. Mixed with what I do know after having Christianity shoved down my throat at a young age.
3) And I have been telling you my opinion as well as offering possible different interpretations for each and every little bit of your "proof". Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean I haven't.
You really should look up a guy here on ATS, you'll find him in the 9/11 forums. You two would get along famously. Your approached to dissenting opinions coincide

4) It ridiculous. Not ridiculas

editing? where?!?! im quoting from the original greek....

im not upholding anything... what the scriptures say is simple, easy to understand... theres no mystery to it. you add this fog to it.

i could make an exhaustive thread (like i did on the trinity) that shows that god doesnt want people to worship anyone but himself. i could include tons of things jesus said to that same affect... im just scared i'd have to do the whole thing in greek less you cry "editing!"

So the original Greek doesn't lie eh? Considering the whole thing had it's start in Ancient Hebrew? A langauge exceedingly hard to translate I might add.

But your just not getting it are you? I wasn't talking about that particuluar line there skippy. And that particuluar line as I pointed out also can be taken in a context other than what your saying. As I have shown.
And others have commented on.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
So what happend to the dietary laws?
And etc?
You know all the laws that followers of Judhism still follow to this day?

by furfilling the law, christian were not bound to the letter of the law.

the law was to prepare people for the messiah. it dealt with cleanliness and how to deal with each other. it also served as a reminder that they needed a messiah (animalsacrifices where symbolic since an animal could never repay the sins of a human). once jesus' blood was spilt, there was no need for the physical temple.

but, even though christian are not bound to the mosaic law, they still are supposed to follow the principles. faith in christ randsom (animal sacrifices), being no part of this world (circumsision), being clean, not spreading disease (leprosy laws), being mindful of situations that may cause manslaughter (tieing your bull), not eating stuff thats harmful to your body (dietary laws (note that back they they may not have understood why certain meats undercooked were dangerous, the dietary laws were to protect them ))

when asked what was the most important law, jesus said love you god with all your heart, mind and soul. the second he said was love you neighber as yourself. on these the whole law does hang.

and its true. the principle for jews and christians are the same... except jews have a law to follow and christians have an example

besides the prophets are not the law. (lev, deut, etc etc) and they are very importantbecause they even make prophecies regarding our time.

They didn't? Since when other than Moses and even then did the Christian god ever give commandments personally to all the people?

are you replying to a different post because this has nothing to do with what i said

And when you get down to it humanity is posessed of a certain ability to lie and twist things, sometimes, heck usually without even knowing we are doing it.
Case in point how many of the great "evil" men in history actually thought they were evil? Not many.

Maybe thats the basis of our disagreement. You allow for excusions of the above nasty little fact of nature.
I don't.

what? why? because i dont assume that the bible is tampered with?

1) Sorry please no more inference or able to be interpreted otherwise passages.
2) Not a Christian remember? So I don't exactly have your holy book memorised. Not that I need to seeing as to how you are providing me with the basis of my statements. Mixed with what I do know after having Christianity shoved down my throat at a young age.
3) And I have been telling you my opinion as well as offering possible different interpretations for each and every little bit of your "proof". Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean I haven't.

no you havent, you simply been quoteing the greek scripture i put up with what ever the hell you feel like. i dont agree with you because your interpretation of that scripture is rubbish. anyone with any linguistic ability especially in greek can tell you very simply what that scripture says. just because you dont get it doesnt mean it isnt true.

You really should look up a guy here on ATS, you'll find him in the 9/11 forums. You two would get along famously. Your approached to dissenting opinions coincide

so i show you a scripture and bring out some points that disagree with you and now you making fun of me because of it?

4) It ridiculous. Not ridiculas

oops, 1 point for you i guess

So the original Greek doesn't lie eh? Considering the whole thing had it's start in Ancient Hebrew? A langauge exceedingly hard to translate I might add.

again, you show how little you know of the subject. matthew to revelation were originally written in greek.

But your just not getting it are you? I wasn't talking about that particuluar line there skippy. And that particuluar line as I pointed out also can be taken in a context other than what your saying. As I have shown.
And others have commented on.

what you have shown me is that you are bitter. your not particularly knowledgeable on the subject. you cry when someone calls you illogical but then insult them when they continue to disagree with you.