God Of Gods.

reply to post by miriam0566


Still no fallen angels = other gods man.
I am sorry I am not trying to be a troll but your not showing me the proof I asked for.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Still no fallen angels = other gods man.
I am sorry I am not trying to be a troll but your not showing me the proof I asked for.

so your saying that the only possible proof there can be is a scripture that says ¨fallen angels are the ¨other gods¨ mentioned in gods laws?

please, dont play so naive.

matt 12:[24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
[27] And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

if satan is the god of this system of things and satan is the prince of the devils, what do you think the devils (demons) are doing? playing poker?

as i mentioned before, satan has a campaign to mislead the earth. the demons are with him.

reply to post by miriam0566


Your skirting the issue and not answering the simple question I posed in any sort of direct way. You can quote those bits of scripture til your blue in the face and still not give me the proof I asked for. Nothing you have said does anything but infer obliquely the simple question I posed which is as follows:
"Where does it say that fallen angels = other gods?"

Its all well and good that is what you interpret to mean that. And I salute you in taking stand as to your belief but you have yet to show anything that says positively without any room for doubt that fallen angels = other gods.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I suppose its easy to view these other gods as the fallen because it appears that God is against them,and why would God be against angels who haven't fallen!


But like you have said,there is no clear scripture to back it up so,as always,its open to interpretation.

reply to post by drevill

Satan has many tools, many plans and Many methods

As does God.


There are still tribes in the world that are untouched by man.
They have their own gods they worship in their own way.
They have never heard of God Almighty and they have never heard of Jesus.

Are they being led astray?
Are they evil?
Or is God speaking to them in different ways than he does to those in other faiths?



[edit on 21-4-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Your skirting the issue and not answering the simple question I posed in any sort of direct way. You can quote those bits of scripture til your blue in the face and still not give me the proof I asked for. Nothing you have said does anything but infer obliquely the simple question I posed which is as follows:
"Where does it say that fallen angels = other gods?"

Its all well and good that is what you interpret to mean that. And I salute you in taking stand as to your belief but you have yet to show anything that says positively without any room for doubt that fallen angels = other gods.

so like i said before, you are incapable of gathering information from context. unless there is a scripture that specifically says it, you feel there is no proof.

yet even a court of law does not operate that way. a court of law doesnt need a confession to convict someone. a conclusion can be arrived through evidence that points to it.

you have one scripture where god says ¨do not worship other gods¨

you have another that says that satan is ¨the god of this world¨

you have a third that says satan is the leader of the fallen angels.

and yet you dont consider that proof that fallen angels are included in the list of ¨gods¨?

ok... whatever

reply to post by miriam0566

so like i said before, you are incapable of gathering information from context. unless there is a scripture that specifically says it, you feel there is no proof.

Inference does not the "true" meaning make my friend.
And I would appreciate if in the future you avoid trying to insult me as I have not insulted you.

I asked if the bible specifically said that, in a round about (and in the end insulting way) your answer is no.

All your bits of scripture could easily be someone trying to (without out and out lying) insinuate that all other belief systems are in fact evil.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Here is something else to ponder.
J.C. is repeatedly credited to talk about "his father's mansion", "his father's kingdom" etc etc and so forth. In the context as far as I understand that he is in fact talking about "the believers". And he also said "my father's mansion has many rooms". Meaning as far as I can tell many different sorts of believers. IE other religions.
Seems to me this is incongruent with "I am the one the only path to father. He who believes in me yadda yadda yadda.".

Which is in my opinion added by the that wished to use Christianity as a way to power in the physical world.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by miriam0566

 

All your bits of scripture could easily be someone trying to (without out and out lying) insinuate that all other belief systems are in fact evil.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

i apologize for insulting you.

but what then is you take on the commandments to not worship other gods?

someone can say they worship the great spagetti god, are you saying that that is ok despite the commandment? or am i completely misunderstanding you?

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Here is something else to ponder.
J.C. is repeatedly credited to talk about "his father's mansion", "his father's kingdom" etc etc and so forth. In the context as far as I understand that he is in fact talking about "the believers". And he also said "my father's mansion has many rooms". Meaning as far as I can tell many different sorts of believers. IE other religions.
Seems to me this is incongruent with "I am the one the only path to father. He who believes in me yadda yadda yadda.".

Which is in my opinion added by the that wished to use Christianity as a way to power in the physical world.

the kingdom is also referenced in daniel with the vision of the statue. the context of daniel leaves no doubt that god is setting up a literal governement (or system of rule). whether that government is in heaven or on earth, i dont know. but it is a ¨kingdom¨, not that fuzzy feeling in our stomachs when we go to church.

not if the kingdom is the people, then yes your right, but that has little to do with the ransom. jesus paid with his blood, so if men wish to leave sin, they have to go through him

reply to post by miriam0566


Not talking about Daniel.
I am talking about the words attributed to Jesus Christ.
In that context and especially because J.C. was supposed to be the top of the heap I think what he says and the contexts he uses is far more important that want Daniel has to say.

Please please please please understand I am not attacking your belief. I am just sharing my views. I mostly agree with the tenants of Christianity and what I see as the message you J.C. tried to teach. I just think men who had little scruples and saw it as a great path to power in the here and now twisted it.

And the whole thing about "God" being a jealous one is rather convient for the Church is it not?

not if the kingdom is the people, then yes your right, but that has little to do with the ransom. jesus paid with his blood, so if men wish to leave sin, they have to go through him

Kinda like that line right there. Rather convient for that stance to be taken dont you think? Everyone having to be Christian thusly under the power of "Christian" leaders in order to save their immortal soul for a debt supposedly already paid but only byt accepting this label us the debt ACTUALLY paid.

Oh and don't worry about the insulting me thing, I understand, things can get heated but wouldn't be nice if we all kept our heads and was civil to each other rather than ending up with the mud slinging contests of super hardheaded (ultimately retarded) proportions such conversations usually end at on here.



[edit on 23-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant

Please please please please understand I am not attacking your belief. I am just sharing my views. I mostly agree with the tenants of Christianity and what I see as the message you J.C. tried to teach. I just think men who had little scruples and saw it as a great path to power in the here and now twisted it.

i dont think your attacking me, actually my not a practicing christian. i just get worked up when people think illogically. because you asked me for proof and i supplied enough information to provide a conclusion.

if god wrote the bible, and he says dont worship other gods (plural), then he calls satan a god, and jesus a god, and even sculptures of wood and stone a god, then its easy to disern what hes saying.

of course there isnt a scripture that says these gods are this or that. its inconsquential. dont worship anyone other than GOD.

is that convienant for churchs to use? defiantly... are they rotten for misusing those scriptures? you bet.

but it doesnt change the fact that GOD is indeed jealous and that other faiths and beliefs are not approved by him. (which church is his is a WHOLE different discussion)

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Here is something else to ponder.
J.C. is repeatedly credited to talk about "his father's mansion", "his father's kingdom" etc etc and so forth. In the context as far as I understand that he is in fact talking about "the believers". And he also said "my father's mansion has many rooms". Meaning as far as I can tell many different sorts of believers. IE other religions.
Seems to me this is incongruent with "I am the one the only path to father. He who believes in me yadda yadda yadda.".

Which is in my opinion added by the that wished to use Christianity as a way to power in the physical world.

definitly agree with you on the last part there wraoth . . . im glad im not the only one who sees that . . . Either that, or he was speaking as G*d, in G*d's words, in the first person.

But by the way, to address your question about angels being gods.

Satan = a "god" that is worshiped = a fallen angel

transitive property seems to be applicable here. With that logic, other "exalted" angels could be gods as well.

[edit on 4/24/2008 by JPhish]

reply to post by miriam0566


Completely ignored that last part huh?

And there you go trying to insult me once again. Cut it OUT. It's not by logic regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise and I resent the implication you were using then in the open and the one your now trying to sneak in on the sly.
At least I could at least partially respect when you tried to do it in the open rather than this cowardly underhanded version your using now.

As I said before there is a inference there.
But NOT an concrete statement.


[edit on 25-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Completely ignored that last part huh?

And there you go trying to insult me once again. Cut it OUT. It's not by logic regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise and I resent the implication you were using then in the open and the one your now trying to sneak in on the sly.
At least I could at least partially respect when you tried to do it in the open rather than this cowardly underhanded version your using now.

As I said before there is a inference there.
But NOT an concrete statement.

im not insulting you, but i am pointing out that thinking that you need a concrete statement to believe something is not only illogical but also unreasonable

Isaiah 9:6,7 Jesus is called ¨The mighty God¨.

2 corinthians 4:4 satan is the ¨god of the world¨

1 kings 18:[27] And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. (inanimate objects can be called gods)

psalms 82 - [6] I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (shows that even men can be gods)

just because the bible doesnt concretely say ¨fallen angels are gods¨ doesnt mean that one can logically conclude they aren´t

im not insulting you.

reply to post by miriam0566


Like I said earlier and you didn't refute. Awfully convient for the scriptures to state such. For those who's sole interest is power in this life. Such comments, taken in the way you take them, only serve to consolidate power and continue the bs intolerance that has lead to a great many deaths. And I doubt a god or his son would preach about peace, brotherhood, and forgiveness then turn around and foster the very thing that KILLS those 3 great things. History shows this VERY well.
Also like I said earlier, certain parts of J.C.'s comments don't jive well with the rest. And all you could quote me to refute that was someone else's comments who is lower on the totem pole so to speak.

i just get worked up when people think illogically

Calling me illogical is an insult sir.
Just because I don't line up the balls your way (or a group of yous) doesn't make me illogical or even wrong.
But either way, I am willing to agree to disagree. But if you wish to continue this conversation, please, drop such comments, stop seeking to justify them and we shall be kewl.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

To answer the topics and jakyll's questions, from my point of view I propose the following answers...0)Who are these other GODs [we'll come back to this last even though it was asked 1st it will be answered as we go!] 1) Are they exalted men/women?... yes some were [pharohs or japanese emperor for example] but most probably were not as it takes a bit to become a GOD!. 2) Are they angels sent to govern man?...Some were/are/will be [now thats confusing I had better elaborate] well jesus is of the order of malkezadek which in biblical terms is both a king and a priest and jesus at the minimum was and is an angel albeit with a very brief human stint and he is supposed to rule over mankind as a king and also GOD has sent angels many times to direct the actions of prophets,apostles,disciples ect and these people responded positively to such governance from upon high and for all they might know the messenger might be the actual provider of providence or miracle and I believe but can't quote scripture that several angles were immediately worshiped upon arrival and they had to stop the well wishing
worshipers from offending YHVH![if anybody is able to provide said scripture I would be much obliged ]therefor I believe that some over awed diciple may mistakenly contrive and perpetuate a myth of being met by a real GOD. 3) Are they Fallen Angels? Well depending on the powers of said fallen angels I wouldn't put it past their abilities not to be able to do such stuff, especially as it suits their evil ends. 4) Are they something else. Yes they are as some were complete figments of a collective imagination. And so back to question 0) Who are these other gods...they are a myriad of contenders and you list
many of them with your questions.Yes to All!

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Like I said earlier and you didn't refute. Awfully convient for the scriptures to state such. For those who's sole interest is power in this life. Such comments, taken in the way you take them, only serve to consolidate power and continue the bs intolerance that has lead to a great many deaths. And I doubt a god or his son would preach about peace, brotherhood, and forgiveness then turn around and foster the very thing that KILLS those 3 great things. History shows this VERY well.
Also like I said earlier, certain parts of J.C.'s comments don't jive well with the rest. And all you could quote me to refute that was someone else's comments who is lower on the totem pole so to speak.

i posted my response.

Originally posted by miriam0566
is that convienant for churchs to use? defiantly... are they rotten for misusing those scriptures? you bet.

but it doesnt change the fact that GOD is indeed jealous and that other faiths and beliefs are not approved by him. (which church is his is a WHOLE different discussion)

you may not like it, but the bible is very clear on this subject. even jesus himself quoted the OT in saying that you should only worship GOD when he was being tempted by satan.

Calling me illogical is an insult sir.

ma´am....

i apologize for calling you illogical. i didnt realize that was the point that was offending you.

reply to post by miriam0566

i posted my response.

Yes. With something by Daniel. Doesn't figure in to the statements made by J.C.

you may not like it, but the bible is very clear on this subject. even jesus himself quoted the OT in saying that you should only worship GOD when he was being tempted by satan.

Quote please? Him saying that during his temptation. And even if you could that fits under the statement I said before about later editing. All you have to do to see proof of editing is look into the beliefs of the seventh day adventists.

ma´am....

i apologize for calling you illogical. i didnt realize that was the point that was offending you.

I apologize for calling you sir.
And don't apologize please if you don't mean it, it cheapens apologies in general.
Just stop.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Yes. With something by Daniel. Doesn't figure in to the statements made by J.C.

yes it does... it was a prophecy refering to J.C.'s kingdom.

Quote please? Him saying that during his temptation. And even if you could that fits under the statement I said before about later editing. All you have to do to see proof of editing is look into the beliefs of the seventh day adventists.

matt 4:[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

gegraptai gar kurion ton qeon sou proskunhseis kai autw monw latreuseis (greek interlinear)

it-HAS-been-WRITTEN for Master THE God OF-YOU YOU-SHALL-BE-worshipING AND to-Him ONLY YOU-SHALL-BE-offerING-DIVINE-SERVICE

in the original greek with no edits.

I apologize for calling you sir.
And don't apologize please if you don't mean it, it cheapens apologies in general.
Just stop.

no i mean it. im sorry