Same-Sex Couples Could Create Children

Originally posted by Gemwolf
Enough. I would like everyone to consider the Terms & Conditions Of Use before posting in this thread...

) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


Hate speech towards a group because of their sexual preference is the same as hate speech towards a group because of their skin colour. You are welcome to voice your opinion, but keep the above T&C in mind.

Thank you.

I know this is off-topic, Gemwolf, but can we also add "sexist" to that sentence in the T&C's? Women are a big group of people, too, and I see alot of misogynist (anti-women) statements here on these boards.

Now for the topic: Marg, I agree with you 100%. I makes me so sad to see so much hatred spew forth from people who call themselves Christians. (And also the non-Christians.) But especially the Christians, because they are not following JEsus's example of tolerance and love.

If people really want children and have lots of love to give, why shouldn't they be allowed to have children? People who have lots of love and who don't abuse, shame or hurt their children are who make the best parents. The gender of the parents makes not one whit of difference.

When I worked as a psychotherapist, the most heart-breaking person I ever worked with was a young gay man who belonged to a Fundamentalist church. He desperately wanted to become straight, not because he liked girls, but because he didn't want to be viewed as a pervert by his church. His church had convinced him he could become straight - which is when he came to me for help. I worked with him for awhile, trying to help him with his self-esteem, but of course he never became straight and continued to see himself as a pervert and to feel badly about it.
Take it from someone who has actually worked as a psychologist to a number of people who felt utterly destroyed and worthless because their church didn't approve of who they slept with.
It is not a church's job to judge ANYONE. It is their job to love unconditionally and help people to understand Jesus's message. Which certainly did not include hatred and discrimination for that which you don't understand.

Jack Chick, it is exactly your kind of self-righteous, patronizing attitudes that made me leave the Church. Do you even understand what Jesus's message was? Christianity is not something one should hide under in order to justify one's agenda of hatred, discrimination, and being judgmental about others.

One would assume they have done things like this already, but behind the scenes. I wonder how long before they take the act of giving birth away from females, and do it in a lab.

How long do you reckong, before they have artificial wombs in real society taking the place of females. Has anyone here thought about this?

reply to post by andy1033


I have, but to tell you the truth that is something a littler more complicated to replicate.

But I will not doubt that eventually will become possible but I don't see on my life time anyway.

These types of debates make me wonder if "God" and or "The Creator" has any real power over us, or perhaps "God" doesn't care nearly as much about us as some might think. I have been leaning more towards the latter the past few years.

By the logic of some of you here... it would be wrong to be raised by a single parent.

I was raised by a mother and a father and my childhood sucked. Religious propaganda and "fear of God" was shoved down my throat since I could remember. Not to mention constant fighting. Talk about self-esteem issues...

It doesn't matter whether or not your parents are gay or straight, the quality of their parenting is what matters. And if your teased in school because of it? That's a problem with culture. Just because you don't go with the flow doesn't mean something's wrong with you.

Originally posted by AnOldFriend
These types of debates make me wonder if "God" and or "The Creator" has any real power over us, or perhaps "God" doesn't care nearly as much about us as some might think. I have been leaning more towards the latter the past few years.

You left out one possibility: God doesn't intervene, because he doesn't exist.

You can ask the adopted sons and daughters about how they feel about their gay parents and they love them just like any other heterosexual couple. An added bonus is they won't grow up to be bigots like many in the population.

It's estimated that around 80% or more of children grow up in "dysfunctional" families, how many of those families are heterosexual would you guess? You would think that these unique families would appreciate their children and raise them better than the ever so common yelling, arm-pulling mothers at Walmart.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by ghaleon12]

Originally posted by AnOldFriend
These types of debates make me wonder if "God" and or "The Creator" has any real power over us, or perhaps "God" doesn't care nearly as much about us as some might think. I have been leaning more towards the latter the past few years.

What you describe is just one version of believing in god. People do believe in a god also that made the universe but does not interact with it. While others say he does miracles, etc...

You will find if you do some research into it, that there are plenty of versions of the differences of how people believe that god exists.

You may find it interesting to watch fritz springmeier, on youtube or something. He goes into it.

reply to post by AnOldFriend



Is all about we as human beings trying to monitor and dictate what other human beings should live their live.

When that way of life is not compatible with some peoples way of thinking then they become oddities and in this instances when it comes to religion they are evil oddities.

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

I guess is about interpretations after all.

I cannot believe how bigoted and ignorant people are, I swear I thought people on this site would be smarter then this, or at the very least subject to debate, not hate (Ohh I pulled a Johnny Cocrin) .

The only argument that made any sense against this was a poster who mentioned nature does not allow them to procreate for a reason and that biological issues may arise, there is concern in that area, (they also mentioned two gays being bad parents is ridiculous which it is) See that is a non bigoted approach to not agreeing with the subject. The rest have been rather hateful and based on the peoples sexual preference plain and simple.

Now MODS, the person who started this thread started with hate speech right off the bat and this is what stoked the fire IMHO.

Please try and remember these are human beings you are talking about, people who love, and can give love, and thats all a child needs to grow up happy. Separation of gay couples is WAYYYYY lower then Hetro couples, should they not be able to have children. Who Decides WHO can have children.

How about Spanish looking Rodney Dangerfield's (You know who you are LOL j/k) should they not be able to have kids because of their obvious lack of compassion? Even they should have the opportunity and joy of being able to raise their own child and watch them grow.

Originally posted by forestlady

Jack Chick, it is exactly your kind of self-righteous, patronizing attitudes that made me leave the Church. Do you even understand what Jesus's message was? Christianity is not something one should hide under in order to justify one's agenda of hatred, discrimination, and being judgmental about others.

Very wise and exactly correct a very old soul you have forest lady =)

Originally posted by danx


You left out one possibility: God doesn't intervene, because he doesn't exist.

Blasphemy. I guess that is another possibility however. I think I am perhaps an agnostic believer if that makes any sense. I am far from a Christian, Muslim, or any other major religion I know about however.

reply to post by marg6043


I wonder how I am to know if i have a log, a speck, or nothing in my eye if it weren't for others opinions (judgments) and if they also have a log, speck, in their eye if i do not make a judgment. And if they do have such clouded judgment am i suppose to believe what they say or not about my judgment(s)?

[edit on 16-4-2008 by AnOldFriend]

Originally posted by Finn1916
If you don't like genetically engineered children, don't have one. Simple as that, leave the people that want to have kids but for whatever reason, be it infertility, or being gay, have children. It does not effect any of our lives in a negative way.

40 generations ago, circa 1200 AD my wife's family inbred as royalty.

As a result, she is an asymptomatic carrier of haemophilia today; her father bled to death last year.

If I have a son with her... 50/50 he will be a full blown bleeder.

Leviticus 18:6

None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover [their] nakedness: I [am] the LORD.

and look there... the good book saw that one coming!

and in the same chapter; on the subject of homosexuality:

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.

Their blood shall be upon them.

It seems pretty simple to me. Perhaps I have just seen the blood first hand.

Life is suffering... why make it any worse on the next generation?

I am,

Sri Oracle

reply to post by Clearskies


"Why would anyone INTENTIONALLY deny a child a father or mother!???? "

because the issue of whether the parents are male + female (i.e. a father/mother) is trumped by whether or not they indeed are care-giving, loving, nurturing and capable of giving good guidance.
Those qualities have nothing to do with gender or sexuality. Having two parents of different genders does nothing whatsoever to ensure quality of care. Lots of abuse can happen under those circumstances.
You wouldn't blame that abuse on the fact that the parents are a man + woman couple so how can you make that assumption about same sex parents?.
Its great when it works but its not a sure thing and surely not the only arrangement that works.
You naysayers don't really have the welfare of the child in mind - only the protection of your dogma. What a shame

reply to post by wayno


What I mean is that while my father abandoned me after the divorce when I was 3, I STILL had a father, somewhere.
My mother and her girlfriend didn't gene-splice and create me as a freak of nature.
One consolation growing up was that I had a father (albeit a kind-of-crazy one who went on to die a few years later.)

[edit on 16-4-2008 by Clearskies]

I think it's CRAZY that people could defend this atrocity against the natural order of the Earth
and yet, protest GMO crops!

This involves Children who have a soul from God!
What egotistical, self-adoration people have who want to clone THEMSELVES.

reply to post by AnOldFriend


That is the problem with human kind, we tend to look into others speck and keep forgetting to remove ours.

I guess is just human nature to take care of each other as people of the same species, but in this time an age we have never master yet the meaning of that.

We have become intolerant to each others as if we are all enemies.

The sad part of it is that many use religion to support that intolerance.

Originally posted by Clearskies

What egotistical, self-adoration people have who want to clone THEMSELVES.

Its not about ego or anything of the sort, its about self preservation. For some strange reason people like to be alive rather then dead......

Originally posted by Clearskies
I think it's CRAZY that people could defend this atrocity against the natural order of the Earth
and yet, protest GMO crops!

This involves Children who have a soul from God!
What egotistical, self-adoration people have who want to clone THEMSELVES.

Okay well not everyone believes in God. There's also that nifty seperation of church and state. But I guess bonus points for you and your believing in God. We'll all go to hell and you can chill on your cloud. It has no merit in this debate.

Isn't it also slightly egotistical to have straight parents that name their kids after them or expect them to follow in their footsteps in occupation?