Chemtrails Vs Contrails... There's a MASSIVE Difference!!! Check these out...

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
How do you know they are just normal contrails?
YOU DON'T
Did you take samples of all those "contrails" in all those pictures?
YOU DIDN'T
How can you tell by just looking at them?
YOU CAN'T
You say we cant say they are chemtrails by just looking at them
I SAY, YOU CANT SAY THEY ARE JUST CONTRAILS JUST BY LOOKING AT THEM.

Have you controlled the loading of an aircraft before?
I HAVE.
Have you seen that same aircraft leave a persistent contrail?
I HAVE
Can I say that it was nothing more then a persistent contrail?
YES, WITHOUT A DOUBT…

Maybe you can explain that one?

reply to post by defcon5


Like I said, if you haven't taken a sample of the atmosphere in each individual photograph of every individual photograph in question and had it anylized and found to be nothing. Then you can NOT say with absolute certainty that ALL of these photographs in question are just of contrails and NONE of them are chemtrails.

Is that clear enough for you?

-Alien

reply to post by Alien Abduct

When I have worked for an airline and was intimately familiar with what was loaded on the planes, what equipment we had to do that loading, and saw those same planes leave cloud forming contrails, then YES, I CAN SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT THERE ARE NO CHEMTRAILS. I was both a lead agent and a supervisor, which means that NOTHING went on or in the plane that I was not aware of.

Is that clear enough for you?

Yes, I believe we cannot tell the difference between contrails from chemtrails and if contrails are naturally formed or not based on ‘facts’ as presented by experts. This is due in part because we land lovers do not have the equipment or the opportunity to go up into the atmosphere, take a sample for each and every cloud trail event and send those off to an independent lab for test.

All we have to go by are some photo/videographers’ ‘evidence’. Until proper documentations are provided by independent auditors to support that these trail mixes in the skies are natural occurrences, I’m afraid the debate on ‘chemtrails’ will continue.

Originally posted by defcon5YES, I CAN SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT THERE ARE NO CHEMTRAILS. I was both a lead agent and a supervisor, which means that NOTHING went on or in the plane that I was not aware of.
Is that clear enough for you?

Actually... NO its not at all clear...

German News Station Exposes Chemtrails- Translated!
SOURCE

Today's Aerosol Crimes. Discovery Channel "Chemtrail" Show Cancelled Tonight
portland.indymedia.org...

FAA OFFICIAL CONFIRMS AIR FORCE TANKERS CONDUCTING WEATHER MODIFICATION OVER U.S. AND CANADA
www.space4peace.org...

Consumer Health Organization of Canada
CHEMTRAILS IN THE SKY AND THE NEW MICROBES
BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS TIED TO GULF WAR SYNDROME
www.consumerhealth.org...

Shall I go on?

As to them sneaking something past you... I doubt that I am POSITIVE that you personally tested every fuel shipment put into the planes under your 'care' There is NO WAY someone could have driven up a truck of tampered fuel




And THESE ones are OBVIOUSLY just NORMAL contrails...






[edit on 22-4-2008 by zorgon]

I like these photos too...








Owning the Weather

Documentary that looks at the history of weather modification and its use by the military. Among the topics covered are: cloud seeding, HAARP and declassified experiments

Google Video Link

video.google.com...

Another "NORMAL" Contrail to be sure

More evidence direct from NASA itself...

SMOKE GENERATORS Perhaps to test the Chemtrail generators?

Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices. The object of the experiments was to test different configurations and mechanical devices on the747 that could be used to break up or lessen the strength of the vortices. The results of the tests could lead to shorter spacing between landings and takeoffs, which, in turn, could alleviate air-traffic congestion. For approximately 30 flights the 747 was flown using various combinations of wing air spoilers in an attempt to reduce wake vortices. To evaluate the effectiveness of the different configurations, chase aircraft were flown into the vortex sheets to probe their strengths and patterns at different times. Two of the chase planes used were the Flight Research Center’s Cessna T-37 and the NASA Ames Research Center’s Learjet. These aircraft represented the types of smaller business jets and other small aircraft that might encounter large passenger aircraft on approach or landings around major airports or in flight.

www.dfrc.nasa.gov...

So there we have the necessary equipment installed on a 747 that COULD generate chemtrails...

From: Royal Meteorological Society Weather Club

Now the explanation here is that the aircraft has been fitted with "Six smoke generators were installed under the wings of the 747 to provide a visual image of the trailing vortices." These generators appear to be built on to the wings themselves. If you look at the blowups of the photo at www.dfrc.nasa.gov... you will see that the smoke generators are very small and not very noticeable.

Now if this generator is able to produce smoke, then why not a chemical mixture to form chemtrails. Now if these small generators were to be placed behind each engine, chemical particles could be shot out from the generators and thus mix in together with the jet exhaust. So when the chemicals come out, they are not burned up as or altered if they were mixed with the fuel. Also shielded micoplasmas could easily pass from a generator into the exhaust staying in in tact and preserved. This would then allow the clouds to act as storage tanks for mycoplasmas/viruses/bacteria. Here they could grow then slowly be blown down with the winds or taken down with rain.

The key to this is that these generators are small and basically un-noticeable in the air. Crewmen on the ground would notice them but would not know what they are. If they asked they could be told to mind their own business and do their work.

So what I would like to see is that trail watchers obtain the very best close up photos they can and to look for these telltale generators. If we can get one photo showing them then the cat is in the bag. Also when you go to air shows, get real close to the military jets and look for generators. Also get close up photos of the back exhaust. If they are highly polished, then we must go back to the theory that chemical particles are in the fuel.

Rain water testing has shown the presence of aluminium particles in samples. Will Thomas was told that if aluminium particles are in the fuel, they would act as a polish on the metal. So get those close up shots happening and send them to me for placement.

Thank You!

www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by zorgon
German News Station Exposes Chemtrails- Translated!
SOURCE

Link does not work, and besides I find it hard to believe anything from a website with the URL allaircraftarenotinvolved. freeforums

Originally posted by zorgon
Today's Aerosol Crimes. Discovery Channel "Chemtrail" Show Cancelled Tonight
portland.indymedia.org...

Indymedia = Volunteer run news service that occasionally runs some wacky stories.

Originally posted by zorgon
FAA OFFICIAL CONFIRMS AIR FORCE TANKERS CONDUCTING WEATHER MODIFICATION OVER U.S. AND CANADA
www.space4peace.org...

Nothing about this page makes it look like there is anything I should trust about what someone named Carolyn Scarr wrote on it. Maybe I should just write a page on the net and try and pass it off like it’s a credible news source.

Originally posted by zorgon
Consumer Health Organization of Canada
CHEMTRAILS IN THE SKY AND THE NEW MICROBES
BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS TIED TO GULF WAR SYNDROME
www.consumerhealth.org...

Consumer Health Organization = Holistic Medical Group, specializing in such things as “Spiritual Healing Enegry”… Certainly not a legitimate source of information.

Shall I go on?
Your sources are as big a joke as your secret space station information was.
Why can you not find a single reputable new source for your information?

Originally posted by zorgon
As to them sneaking something past you... I doubt that I am POSITIVE that you personally tested every fuel shipment put into the planes under your 'care' There is NO WAY someone could have driven up a truck of tampered fuel

I worked for the company that runs the tank farm at the airport, the tank farm at the port, and tanks fuel to over half of the state. That fuel was constantly checked out for impurities, bacteria, water, and other contaminates. The fuel was chemically checked at the farm on every shift, filtered as it left the farm, and filtered twice on the truck. The farm fuel tanks, the truck system, and the aircraft tanks are sumped on a regular basis to remove any condensation that builds up in them allowing bacteria growth. Part of a lead agents job is to check and ensure the fuel load, and make sure that the fueler does everything on his flight correctly. So, no there is no sneaking anything past a good lead agent.

Additionally, our airport runs on a hydrant system, it does not use tanker trucks. So there is no way to pull one truck to the side and add anything to it. The Hydrant truck hooks to a ground pit that links through a series of pitted pumping stations directly to the tank farm. Once the pit system is charged with pressure, there is no changing what fuel is in it, and the same fuel goes throughout the entire system. That is why fuel trucks have Hobbs Meters on them, because the only way to justify what aircraft got how much of that fuel was from the meter at the truck. If they had to switch fuel for some reason, which did happen a few times when I was there, it required shutting down the entire airport fuel system to change it (a very big deal which is very public).

Besides all of that as a fueler, lead, or supervisor, you have to be able to justify the fuel load in both gallons and pounds. So if there was something that was being added to the gas the figures to calculate that would have changed.

So, yeah, it is pretty clear…

Ah, I hit the refresh and you are still posting away with the nonsense, so I'll fix some of that here too.

Originally posted by zorgon

Black contrails have already been explained.

Originally posted by zorgon

Both normal contrails from commercial 747 aircraft.

Originally posted by zorgon
Another "NORMAL" Contrail to be sure

No, actually it’s normal wingtip vortices.

Originally posted by zorgon
More evidence direct from NASA itself...
SMOKE GENERATORS Perhaps to test the Chemtrail generators?

A test to help NASA figure out the formation of vortices, and if you look closely they are already dissipating toward the left edge of the photo.

Originally posted by zorgon
This would then allow the clouds to act as storage tanks for mycoplasmas/viruses/bacteria. Here they could grow then slowly be blown down with the winds or taken down with rain.

If they wanted to do this, then its darn funny that we spend so much time making sure that the fuel is free from bacteria, isn’t it?

[edit on 4/22/2008 by defcon5]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by zorgon
German News Station Exposes Chemtrails- Translated!
SOURCE

Link does not work, and besides I find it hard to believe anything from a website with the URL allaircraftarenotinvolved. freeforums

The story is that the German military denied deploying chaff during an exercise that caused problems with rainfall radar, but said the Dutch were to blame ..... That's it. Nothing whatsoever to do with chemtrails.

A better link here:

contrailscience.com...

It's one of those bits of misinformation which will undoubtably resurface time and time again for years to come

[edit on 22-4-2008 by Essan]

reply to post by defcon5


defcon, brilliant work, as always~!!!

And, Zorgon....you're brilliant, and do brilliant work too...but your misconception that airplanes are fueled by tanker trucks is a glaring error!!

You either didn't know, or knew and wished to 'muddy' the waters, so to speak, with a red herring like a 'fuel truck'.

Besides, you know as well as I what kind of temperatures are involved inside a jet engine! Please describe a chemical that could be 'spiked' into the fuel, without changing its specific gravity, and survive temps exceeding 800 degrees C??

Love to know about the magic chem...

WW

Originally posted by defcon5
SOURCE

Link does not work...

Works fine if you copy and paste the url... for some reason it does not work pasted into ATS

However here is the Youtube video... that this site merely posted and discussed...

and besides I find it hard to believe anything from a website with the URL allaircraftarenotinvolved. freeforums

I do not doubt that... seems you have a habit of not believing much of anything no matter the source... how convenient for you

Maybe I should just write a page on the net and try and pass it off like it’s a credible news source.

Why? Isn't that your main purpose here at ATS? Try to confuse the issues and give out disinfo? Its not working BTW

Your sources are as big a joke as your secret space station information was.
Why can you not find a single reputable new source for your information?

The only JOKE around here is your attempts at disinfo... sad very sad... I hope your not getting a paycheck ... it would be a waste of money

How about CNN? Are they a 'wacko' source?


For those of you on here with a brain to reason for yourself... just google "chemtrails mainstream news"

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Besides, you know as well as I what kind of temperatures are involved inside a jet engine! Please describe a chemical that could be 'spiked' into the fuel, without changing its specific gravity, and survive temps exceeding 800 degrees C??

Well if you use those "smoke generators" mounted on the wings like the NASA vortex test... that would eliminate the need to mix it in the fuel now wouldn't it?



Silly Lemmings and Essan even says he is a government disinfo agent , albeit 'retired'

You guys make a great team... but your not fooling anyone

reply to post by zorgon


Z, you can't get away with it, and you know it, because I've already told you who I am, in U2U....so DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT accuse me of being employed by the Government.

As I said, now that I'm calm again....either you wish everyone to believe that pilots are stupid, and would not know that 'spraying' equipment was installed on their airplane, wouldn't see it during the pre-flight....and every mechanic and ground crew worker and fueler and FAA inspector, they're all stupid, and or blind....OR, we are all in on it!!

Yeah....a typical ground worker at an airline lasts a few months....some make a career out of it, hoping to get promoted up, but for many, many it is a transient job. YET, none come forward after leaving the business? NOT ONE!

Gee, after working for $10 an hour, dontcha think they'd stand to make millions?!?

So, in essence....first you...YOU, Z....on another thread, or possibly here, speculated that the chemicals are in the fuel. THEN you change your stance, as you dance around, and claim it is 'sprayed' from 'nozzles' mounted on the wing. THEN you post a completely off-the-mark photo about spraying to conduct wingtip vortices tests.....It's really hard to keep up with your misdeirections, you should be a magician....perhaps you can get a gig with one of the performers on the Las Vegas Strip? Lance Burton might have an opening. If you can hear the music, then you can learn the choreography to participate as an 'assistant' in his show....
Thanks for your posts...
WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Z, you can't get away with it, and you know it, because I've already told you who I am, in U2U....so DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT accuse me of being employed by the Government.

You do NOT have to be employed by the Government to be a disinfo agent.. heck you can volunteer for that as many on ATS do

All that you require as credentials is to spread mainsteam BS as fae as you can...

Personally I do not understand the pathelogical need of some regular debunkers to attempt to debunk everything

But its okay... we still like ya

;cool:

Originally posted by weedwhacker
As I said, now that I'm calm again....either you wish everyone to believe that pilots are stupid, and would not know that 'spraying' equipment was installed on their airplane, wouldn't see it during the pre-flight....and every mechanic and ground crew worker and fueler and FAA inspector, they're all stupid, and or blind....OR, we are all in on it!!

Thats funny... there you go again...

Please be so kind as to show me where I have EVER STATED that the chemtrails are being released by COMMERCIAL AIRLINES?

As far as I am concerned it is a Military operation... so before you go off and blow your cork... at least be sure you know what I am talking about... Up to now on the chemtrail issue I have merely shown interesting 'contrails' and circumstantial evidence.. I have not yet drawn, nor stated ANY conclusions...

You really ought to pay more attention... it would give your debunking attempts more credibility

:shk:

Well I'm off to bust some concrete... have fun in you delusions that chemtrails are not real

[edit on 22-4-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Z, stop trying to take the 'high road' when you know full well what you were doing, instigating and dropping 'hints' to keep the debate going.

You showed pictures of obvious airliners, with obvious contrails, with a 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge' kind of attitude? THEN, you claim innocence?!?

When pigs fly....

WW

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Z, you can't get away with it, and you know it, because I've already told you who I am, in U2U....so DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT accuse me of being employed by the Government.

You do NOT have to be employed by the Government to be a disinfo agent.. heck you can volunteer for that as many on ATS do

All that you require as credentials is to spread mainsteam BS as fae as you can...

Personally I do not understand the pathelogical need of some regular debunkers to attempt to debunk everything

Quoting, because I have to...

"volunteer"?!? Sheesh! I'm getting paid $550 per hour to do this, that's why I milk it.

So far today, I've made $ 1,927.

To paraphrase Sally Fields' Oscar acceptance speech...."You like me! You really like me!"

WW

But its okay... we still like ya

;cool:

Originally posted by zorgon

Please be so kind as to show me where I have EVER STATED that the chemtrails are being released by COMMERCIAL AIRLINES?

But the atmospheric phenomena called chemtrails is, in the majority of cases, produced by commercial airliners ....

Unless the US Airforce has tens of thousands of extra aircraft flying all over the world disguised as airliners ..... and domestic air flight is a myth

reply to post by Essan


AND, if I may jump in....even Military airplanes, flying in Civilian Airspace, must file flight plans....

Yeah, I know, hard to believe.

BUT, that's only when they need to travel long distances, as in carrying troops and equipment, etc.

Training missions and such, are conducted in Restricted Areas, or Millitary Operations Areas (RA or MOA)

WW