Apollo 20 update

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by Kratos40

 

G'day Kratos40

Here you go.....

OK.....

I've looked at that. It simply appears to be another low-res video fabricated to support this Apollo 20 story......sorry.

If some "experts" on here care to disagree, then I'll be interested in their comments.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Can you elucidate some information on why you think this new video is fabricated? And if it is fabricated, what scientific method or technique did you use?

reply to post by Kratos40


G'day Kratos40

I conclude the video is "dodgy" because:

The quality is poor

It doesn't look "real" to me

I don't believe it could have been kept secret if it was real

The video "appearance" tends to mimic that of the hoax video of the giant spaceship on the moon.

I don't believe there was an Apollo 20 mission.

If we're lucky, one of the ATS heavyweights might jump in with some knowledge of this video that is more helpful than my own opinions.

I'll also see if I can dig up some better info myself.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Kratos40

Can you elucidate some information on why you think this new video is fabricated? And if it is fabricated, what scientific method or technique did you use?

The individual that made these was found out a year or two ago. It's been a while, but as I remember, it was some french film maker trying to make a name for himself via a viral video. I think it may have been part of something larger that never really panned out. You'll find it if you go digging. But yeah, it's a proven hoax.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
The individual that made these was found out a year or two ago. It's been a while, but as I remember, it was some french film maker trying to make a name for himself via a viral video. I think it may have been part of something larger that never really panned out. You'll find it if you go digging. But yeah, it's a proven hoax.

He would be French artist Thierry Speth:
in this scheme you can see how he was linked with “retiredafb”, the original alias who publicized the videos: but a long series of epic fails characterized the Apollo 20 saga,
www.enricobaccarini.com...
www.cun-veneto.it...

while it's an elaborate hoax, there are two different people involved in it as far as we know: one is the abovementioned french artist, the other one is the italian journalist to whom the alleged retiredafb/rutledge/speth released his interwiews: he's a former member of italian National Ufo Center CUN , and there's an article from one of their websites titled:
Apollo 20 footage is a hoax: we have the proof.
The idea started from the formation cthat can be seen in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630
(this is a crop from it)


but also in AS15-M-1720 (found by ArMaP, this one)

and in
AS15-M-1581, AS15-M-1334 and in AS15-M-1335.
The reasons of the hoax are still unknown as far as i know, and honestly it doesn't matter

reply to post by internos


Ah yes...that nutjob...Speth. I wouldn't give him too much credit in actually finding the anomalies and then to reverse-engineer a story around them. I believe his whole story is a hoax and probably used as disinformation.

But one has to wonder who actually leaked the initial footage? If you compare this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/225e06be68a5.jpg[/atsimg]

To this LCROSS image:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f08df272edee.jpg[/atsimg]

They either look real or they both look like clay re-creations depending on who you ask.

But if you are going to reference the pictures you included, then one can say that anyone can manipulate the color settings to suit their explanations:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8dcf2426c132.jpg[/atsimg]

Perhaps this is what the guys over at the former SpaceHeroes site did in trying to tease out some detail of the the adjacent anomaly:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/982a4daf9eb0.jpg[/atsimg]

But one must remember that we are going by what LPI/NASA has decided to make available to the public.

I only hope that the guys over in Japan (JAXA/Selene project) took pics of this interesting site and release HD files soon. Yeah right!!

As a final thought, I wonder if nutjob Speth got his inspiration from H.R. Giger?:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/abb97a18606d.jpg[/atsimg]

I'm not quite satisfied as to what the debunkers put forth to explain this away.....sometimes you have to dig up the dead horse and kick it a little.

reply to post by internos


G'day internos

Thanks for clarifying that for us.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


That wasn't much of a clarifacation. It was more of his reputation coming forth on this subject matter and making a blanket statement. No scientific study there. Much respect for Internos in his previous posts, but this was not satisfactory. I'm kind of disappointed.
Oh well, I was just trying to close out my notes on this subject.

reply to post by debris765nju


Hey dude, i haven't seen you for a while, I keep thinking about your ongoing
adventure and would like to know more about the incredible existence of all of your friends!Please excuse me for being a bit forward about your personal life,
but i think it's absolutely incredible of the multi dimensional, multi universal friends you have been sharing with all of us for quite a while come to think of it?
Please get in touch with me if you could? [email protected] or: [email protected]!

Originally posted by Kratos40
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

That wasn't much of a clarifacation. It was more of his reputation coming forth on this subject matter and making a blanket statement. No scientific study there. Much respect for Internos in his previous posts, but this was not satisfactory. I'm kind of disappointed.
Oh well, I was just trying to close out my notes on this subject.

Awww, you are a mind reader, it seems. Bravo.
And keep asking for "what scientific method or technique" was used to identify it positively as a HOAX, right?
Mmmm, ok.
So basically you believe this story has not yet been proven to be a hoax.
What do you mean for " No scientific study"? Do you need some rocket scientist to make you understand that this is a hoax?
Good luck then.
Just for the record:
Apollo 15 audio in the video known as ("The city"):

121:05:30 Allen: Presto chango; there's the TV.
['Presto Chango', sometimes spelled 'presto change-o' is a incantation usually associated with amateur magicians.]
121:05:36 Scott: Oh, beautiful, I'm glad to hear that.

Transcript:
www.hq.nasa.gov...
Listen to the Apollo 15 audio here
www.hq.nasa.gov...

Now, please provide us with some decent explanation about WHY someone should add an Apollo 15 mission's audio to a genuine apollo 20 mission's footage. Mmmmmmmhhh?
Sorry if this proof is not scientific enough

The images of "city" were taken from Bruce Pennington's work: you can find it on pages 24 and 25 of his book: "ESCHATUS: Future Prophecies From Nostradamus' Ancient Writings".
www.amazon.co.uk...
www.brucepennington.co.uk...

Floating torso issue:
revver.com...

But the smoking-gun evidence of hoax can be seen on the second video in this post.
As “bishop1971” commented on Youtube, at around 1:15 you can see a very bad compositing blunder in the video. “Leonov”, the astronaut in the footage, suddenly becomes a floating torso, as you can see the background moving below his waist.
Below, a frame of the crude error, note the background below Leonov’s waist, but check for yourself on the video:

Kentaro Mori

A clay sculpture, the background inside the Lunar Module, a nice computer generated video, and finally the footage of “Leonov”. But that final footage only had Leonov from the waist up, and Speth made a very bad error on compositing — “mixing” — everything together. There’s no doubt that’s a hoax, unless you believe on flying torsos.

forgetomori.com...
Astronaut “William Rutledge” doesn’t exist.
He was linked with “retiredafb”, in the way being shown in the schema above, but i'll re-link it here:

The article, titled "An alien with boobies (and floating torsos)"
by Kentaro Mori
forgetomori.com...

There's no need to be a rocket scientist to realize that what he tried to pass as the body of an ALIEN WOMAN was a Clay sculpture.

I hope that this one clarifies it.
Look, this has been beaten to death, it's not my fault, ask the hoaxers why they did it
Apollo 20 Secret Miltary Moon Mission
Debunking retiredafb - The apollo 20 hoax and the STS 107 tapes ...
Apollo 20, retiredafb, spaceship on moon seems to be hoax
Another Apollo 20 alien spaceship video
Apollo 20 update
Apollo 20 Mission Location Research
Apollo 20 confirmation of Lemurians?
Mona Lisa EBE Apollo 20
Alien Spaceship On The Moon flyover bef. landing Apollo 20
APOLLO 19 COMMANDER SPEAKS OUT: interview by Luca Scantamburlo
Abandonned Alein Spaceship on the moon (Video)
Another Fake Video?
Incredible Crashed UFO **Video**on Moon
Apollo XX Commander Pipes Up
Alien Moon City Video – Hoax or Real?


[edit on 10/2/2010 by internos]

This might be a stupid question.
Why can't the "astronaut" operate a camera?
You would think discovering a humanoid entity on the moon would be a HUGE deal, but it seems like the cameraman is being very slow and lazy drifting the camera slowly between the entity, the window and the control board.
When the camera is "documenting" the entity it never seems to have it in frame.
That is why I feel this video is a fake.

Originally posted by BlakSheep
revver.com...

That is the link to all that paticular users videos. All dealing with this topic. Can't all be faked can they?

Well, yes actually, they can.
This sort of fakery does the whole subject of UFO/EBE visitations no good at all, and is exactly the sort of thing that gives the subject so much of the terrible "silly season giggle factor" it gets treated with.
It should not be this way as I think this is the single most important subject in the world right now. It changes everything. It needs to be taken seriously because I get fed up with the UK Ministry of Defence and it's "no defence significance" attitude. It certainly is of defence significance, and poor hoaxes like this only serve the debunkers like Philip Klass. It allows them to point to these videos and laugh, frankly.

All that aside.
As has been pointed out here already, you cannot build & launch 2 Saturn V rockets secretly. The Chinese & russians would have detected the launches before they even got off the ground. Plus, when they went up, people would have noticed.....hard to hide really.

Sorry, but this is just not real.

reply to post by sperical123


I think you got the wrong person....

reply to post by internos


Good show Internos! That is what I like. Sometimes I have to tease this out of people in order to promote a good argument and further elucidate evidence for the sake of the subject in question.

I have analyzed the LPI/NASA images and there seems to be two shadows cast by two individual objects. But lets just focus on "The Whale", the cigar shaped one for now. It's triangular partner will come later because obfuscation has been used to conceal the other derelict ship and I will elucidate more on this later on.

The following evidence seems to show a striking similarity when you overlap the "Rutledge" footage with what is available at the LPI website:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/565bda9666ee.jpg[/atsimg]

These landmarks seem too close and precise to be made by a hoaxer (insert Speth/Scantamburlo here):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5f30da7e3680.jpg[/atsimg]

If you mix the pixelation from the two sources you get this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/55a968dc1e1d.jpg[/atsimg]

But what a coincidence that someone would choose the date of August 16th, 1976 to be the launch date of this supposed "Apollo 20" mission, when a few days earlier Luna 24 (E-8-5M-412) with its undeclared Lunokhod rover launch on August 9th, 1976 (Ref. www.zarya.info...). So guess what you see outside of the Phoenix lander?...the Lunokhod rover with a NASA moon rover in the middle ground:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2613a2a67258.jpg[/atsimg]

But I will agree with you that "The City" video is a hoax, and any one could have planted this as disinformation. In observing such clues, there seems to be a similar structure at top left of the following video screenshots:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2613a2a67258.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8da0cd072686.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3defb8734168.png[/atsimg]

Sure looks a lot like Hoagland's (?) Moon Cathedral doesn't it?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/71a05c61e4f7.jpg[/atsimg]

This is a long way from being a hoax. We just have to separate the wheat from the schaff...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/26591964428b.jpg[/atsimg]

I'm speechless that a thread like this has so many replies about a topic that is complete and utter feces. Yet at the same time topics like the ones presented by Karl12 and others hardly get any replies or debate at all. I would have hoped the average person on ATS would be able to disseminate between blatant low rate hoaxes like this one and actual recorded video, apparently not.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
I'm speechless that a thread like this has so many replies about a topic that is complete and utter feces. Yet at the same time topics like the ones presented by Karl12 and others hardly get any replies or debate at all. I would have hoped the average person on ATS would be able to disseminate between blatant low rate hoaxes like this one and actual recorded video, apparently not.

I couldn't agree more: you know, two days ago I've been watching an interview with David Clarke: in his reply to the first question about UFOs has mentioned charlatans as the first reason why pilots hardly report any sighting: he described charlatans like "people who, for money, say to some other people something that they wish to hear" (these were more or less his words).
Well, coming from him, it's something that really makes you think about the damage these sellers of garbage are doing to serious research.
Try to imagine how NICE and EXCITING would be this subject matter without these charlatans: it would be just made of hard evidences-based cases and brained people really interested in it : and NO ONE would laugh at it.
I've always been thinking that those who buy (not just with money) stuff coming from charlatans are not victims but part of the problem, (I'm NOT referring to those who fall into the trap once, but to those that despite one has been proven to have lied keep desperately in supporting him): if there were NO people feeding them, they would starve to death, and would leave serious research alone, and maybe, hopefully (for them) would get a life.
But not, even if it has been proved that the 97,8% one is a HOAXER, here comes yet ANOTHER one who tries to unload to you shoulders the burden of proof, creating some asymmetric battlefield where in one side you have the charlatan and his supporters making otrageous claims and saying "prove this to be a hoax" offering unverifiable evidences, while in the other one you have those who are supposed to spend part of their time to try to open their eyes, for NOTHING.
Well, guess what mate?
The Internet is a mass MSM, not some individual one: if someone WANTS to believe the Apollo 20 crap after that it has been proven to be some utter and complete garbage, I won't try to stop him/her anymore; all I've got as payback has been more unwanted work to do, zero gratitude, and some members more trolling me.
So, from now on my take about the Apollo 20 CRAP is the following:
if some believe this crap to be real then BE IT: to smash painfully into the wall of REALITY will be less nice then to smash into some of my posts or some of the countless articles proving it to be pure CRAP, but perhaps that's the only way they know in order to learn.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by internos]

reply to post by internos


Well said Internos. It is shame that there are so many frauds infesting the real UFO field of research. When the people over at the Hessdalen Norway Research Center for example see these idiots again and again make the field of study look like a complete joke, it really must discourage them and others; as well as drive away possible research funding.

I'm beginning to slowly understand the abrasive posture by "skeptics" on this forum towards topics that only further help to propel these charlatans into the "pop culture" limelight of UFO research. Unfortunately These folks time after time need to be shown just how illogical and ignorant they are when it comes to supporting these frauds.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Jocko Flocko]

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Jocko Flocko]

LOL I cannot believe people are still discussing about this topic. I remember when these videos first came out in 2007 I was so excited but then later disappointed to find out (myself) they were hoaxes. Not to mention the youtube user retiredaf (or something like that) removed the obvious fakes videos off of his channel.

So has anyone of these idiots notice all of his videos have the same filming style. First camera is pointed at something else out of focus so the viewers ask "whats this im seeing?". Then the camera zoom in or focus on the subject to achieve the shocking effect. I dont see why an astronaut or fixed camera would implement that type of story telling style in their film.

Too bad the newbies will never see the poorly made, obvious fake videos.

I can settle this matter here and now. This video and everything that goes with it is part of a viral marketing stradegy to promote a "cloverfield"-style movie called Apollo 18. Every one of you was on the right track. It IS a fake video. I know all this because I love movies and was interested in this movie. While trying to find out if the video tells more about what happens in the movie (cause I think I can see another orange figure like "Mona Lisa" outside the LM) I stumbled upon this forum. And though you helped to provide me with a lot of facts about what is found in the video I feel I should let you all know the truth. I can explain more about the movie if you want.

reply to post by zodchuntr


I saw a poster for "Apollo 18" at the theater this weekend and immediately thought of this thread. The same two words came to mind... "viral marketing." There's even another confirmed piece of viral marketing that features a redacted document that mentions "secret" Apollo missions 18-20. I've even heard rumors that parts of the "Apollo 20" footage will even make it into the film.

SA-514, which is the Saturn V that would have been used for Apollo 18 or 19 had those missions happened, is now a museum piece and anyone can see it. The first stage is on display at the Johnson Space Center, while the upper stages are on display at Kennedy. Apollo 20's hardware is on display at JSC as the second stage of their Saturn V, while the upper stage is on display at the Smithsonian in DC and the first stage is on display at Michoud in New Orleans.

I see that internos is banned. I'm deeply saddened by that news, he was one of ATS's greatest assets.

yeah the "Apllo 18" marketing people thought that they should make the videos, photos, and websites as real as possible by like hackin the websites so that it show that these videos, photos, and websites have existed a lot longer than they actually have. So the "mona lisa" video would say that it was posted in 2007 when it was posted in late 2010. They are certainly dedicated.