Israel threatens Iran with destruction

Originally posted by Odium
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Technically speaking, if the USA moved tanks to the border with Canada that isn't an act of War. It's not an act of War till one side gives the order to attack.

Israel did not have to bomb Egypt in any-way, shape or form. Many other alternatives existed instead they picked the option which would result in them gaining land.

U.S. support/defence.
U.N. support/defence.

So on and so fourth.

If the US moved tanks to the Canadian border that would not be an act of war. It would be an act of Aggression. An act of Aggression is sort of a final move before an act of war.. its saying, we are ready, we are here, do as we say.

Its not uncommon, but given the circumstances in the situation .. it can be rather severe. Can you imagine the US doing that here for no reason what so ever? .. no, because there is always a reason. Why do you think Mexico got so irate of America puting troops at the border? We had to unarm our guys down there, defeating their purpose.

When Egypt moved troops to the border with Israel, as did Syria, it was determined that there was going to be a war.. Nassar had his plans and nationalism above all else had to come out on top.. loosing the war is what broke the nationalist movements of the ME because it was such a crushing defeat. Had they won, and they would have had they attacked first.. who knows, the Me would certainly be a different place, but most likely many more would have been killed.

The entire notion that everything can be talked out every time .. is.. romantic ideas at best, but in reality, it just does not work that way.. international events operate on a different spectrum then localized and personal events, and to compare the two is not rational.

LLoyd45

I'm not actually sure of why they're so widely despised, but when you've been kicked out of every European and Arab country, something has to be wrong with you. Wouldn't you agree?

Everyone can't just be prejudiced..

Not everyone was.. but enough where. Usually the only times Jews where kicked out of societies was during periods of economic uncertainty, war or a change in government.. usually as one the few minorities they where a scapegoat.. much like gypsies, gays, catholics, protestants depending on where your at, the old, the sick, the mentally ill.. many different people had the same problem essentially at one point or another. From early political cartoons however, it is apparent many in Europe even several hundred years back believed Jews to be crooks, greedy, secretive and elite. In actuality, they where not.. but if your poor and you don't know why.. its easier to blame an entire race that is not your own.

not replying to the rest of you.. as your rude and you all have brought the thread down to a "whos land was/is it" and "your anti-semitic!"

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Harlequin

 

I cannot find anything about 7th June cease fire. War started on 5th of June. And cease fire after two days? It was six days war.Syrian forces on Golan heights were attacked on 9th of june. If there was a cease fire on 7th - 2 days are not enough to withdraw forces from a dozen kilometers? And why this withdrawing force continued shelling Israel in total disregard of the supposed truce?
Finally, Liberty attack was a tragic one. However it did not answer the question and can be seen as an attempt to derail the discussion.

at this time i will leave the talk to the 6 day war - but i did link the original UN document. but i cannot leave without:


quote]Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Harlequin
the UN brokered cease fire was due to start on the 7th june

The cease-fire wasn't signed until the 11th...hence why it is called the Six Day War.

so far this thread has had 3 different dates for the ending of the war - israel finally signed the cease fire on june 10th , egypt agreed to it on june 7th/8th (overnight) - israel ground force commander is reported in dispatches as saying the UN would not be able to enforce a cease fire for another 72 hours - enough time to complete there mission

www.zionism-israel.com...

the entire 6 day war was over before it started - with israel openly attacking and destroying the egyptian air force - a strategic victory? likely - but one tainted with the attack on the liberty and ignoring the UN (which israel have a history of doing) - IF , and thats a big IF they had played the game , they wouldn`t be in the mess they are today.

Originally posted by LLoyd45

They have a really nice web site, and it's quite informative.

Here's a quote from the then Secretary of State Dean Rusk regarding the incident:

You have not provided evidence, just a quote that has no connection to the conjecture connecting USS Liberty to the Golan.

I've never quite understood all the hatred between the Jews and Arabs aside from religious beliefs. Genetically they are all brothers. Genetic research has proven this to be true. Why can't they all just try to live in peace?

Originally posted by SaviorComplex


You have not provided evidence, just a quote that has no connection to the conjecture connecting USS Liberty to the Golan.

Did you not click on the link and read the web site?

Surely all those American soldiers weren't lying about the incident, and Israel has even paid reparations to the families of the 34 killed and for the damaged ship..

I guess you'd require video evidence before you'd ever believe another version.

Well this thread title is a little biased.

Anyway, I have a question.

Somebody earlier in this thread said something about the Jewish people wanting to go back and reclaim their homeland, I am assuming this is supposedly modern day Isreal?

Why did the Jewish people leave their homeland in the first place?

reply to post by LLoyd45

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I've never quite understood all the hatred between the Jews and Arabs aside from religious beliefs. Genetically they are all brothers. Genetic research has proven this to be true. Why can't they all just try to live in peace?

Because the Jews believes that they're more superior then anyone else. They're figured this nonsense out to compensate their paranoia and inferior complexity, which is slowly but surely merged into their genes. Comparing them to the older Arabic Nations, the old Arab nations had a beautiful culture with traditions, fairy tales, legends, everything, such as their Catholic brothers. Until the found of Israel there was not so much aggression on the Middle East. Smaller Clan wars yes, smaller battles for land, yes, but since they're there, there is massacre and war. And what the Jews had before this time? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because everyone banished them for their fool behavior, for their lies and because they ruined everything what for they ever touched. That's why they want to take revenge on any Goyim on the planet, while everything was and still is their fault. But they're never going to admit it, because they're fools. And that's bringing their doom closer and closer day by day. They cannot and don't want to face, that they're causing all the problems for themselves, but they're lie even to themselves in this, because they cannot take responsibility for anything at all.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

BlueRaja - you are right on the money. I couldn't say it better myself. Israel has every (literally) God-given right to be there, and it is a matter of Muslim selfishness that is the cause of Israel's wars.

en.wikipedia.org...

Read the Wikipedia article on the military history of Israel, and give me one example of when they started it. A pre-emptive strike is common sense, not dirty tactics, especially when your opponent is attempting to annihilate your nation.

I'm not surprised that the Israeli's are no longer messing around or taking # from their neighbours. If I didn't have to take it, I wouldn't either.

I say fair play to the Israeli's for being so tough, gritty and determined to hang on to what is rightfully theirs, and for being so co-operative with the Arab nations around them. It's a pity these nations can't be co-operative with the Israeli's.

reply to post by Dark Crystalline


well that was utter junk if i ever read it

Because the Jews believes that they're more superior then anyone else

would it surprise you that , most followers of judaism don`t feel that way? only the zionists who moved to israel have feelings in that direction - but as a religous group , no , followers of judaism do not think that.

They're figured this nonsense out to compensate their paranoia and inferior complexity, which is slowly but surely merged into their genes. Comparing them to the older Arabic Nations, the old Arab nations had a beautiful culture with traditions, fairy tales, legends, everything, such as their Catholic brothers.

and there i was thinking that the crusades were christians fighting arabs - not exactly any love lost there , no really.

Until the found of Israel there was not so much aggression on the Middle East. Smaller Clan wars yes, smaller battles for land, yes, but since they're there, there is massacre and war. And what the Jews had before this time? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because everyone banished them for their fool behavior, for their lies and because they ruined everything what for they ever touched.

*sigh* more junk - until the palatine mandate - the the irgun etc with there zionist tendancies - its true that jews lived happily and peacefully in palestine - and if those utter idiots `the zionists` had not gained power through force , then israel today would be a tottally different (and many would say berrer) country.

if you want to blame anything then blame the zealot supporters of zionism - do not tar all jews with that brush

anyway can`t be bothered to reply to anymore of your utter rant driven crap, jews as a religious group are a fantastic peoples rich in culture and history - its those idiots hell bent on war that have a grip on jeruselum i have an issue with.

[edit on 7/4/08 by Harlequin]

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Benjamin. Oh. May I guess you religion just from your name?

Israel don't have the right to be there. They was banished there from Europe, that's all. They got a small desert but unfortunately like the rabbits, they started to spread into every direction. Unfortunately these rabbits was armed. Israel was intended to be the Quarantine Zone, nothing more. A quarantine for the thieves and fools. Unfortunately they broke out from it. And they started all the wars there.

Those psycho serial killers (There are exception of course) have no rights to be there or anywhere else on this planet until they're cannot fit their behavior to the world and cannot accept that they're not the rulers of the world and never will be.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I've never quite understood all the hatred between the Jews and Arabs aside from religious beliefs. Genetically they are all brothers. Genetic research has proven this to be true. Why can't they all just try to live in peace?

here is the thing with Palestine which, imo, sheds light on the Jewish, Arab problems..

Palestine was renamed under Emperor Adrian of Rome after loosing a civil war to the Jewish states.. the Jews where not moved, relocated, killed or anything, in fact.. they won the war against Rome to begin with, but Adrian re-named all of the land on every official map in the empire. He went as far as to make it a death sentence for anyone who called it on a map Judea as it was known at the time of the wars.

The Jews where never killed off.

Most converted to Islam as Islam expanded.. Islam was never exactly violent towards Jews, anymore then native Christians.. usually they lived in their own communities and existed in peace. But more and more converted. If Jesus lived, he was a Palestinian, because Palestinians are Semitic, they are descended from the Jews of Judea.. only their religion has changed.

So its not ethnic, and it has nothing to do with them being brothers.

The majority of Jews in Israel are European, which is no different then when Rome sent legions to conquer the land 2,000 years ago.

and instead of assimulating the entire population into the Western population of Israel, Israel has outcasted them and turned them into second rate citizens, unworthy of Israel. More correctly, it would turn Israel's society from a progressive democracy to a wild Islamic state with little control and civil wars..

Its marred by all sorts of problems.

The rest of the Arab world never really had a problem with Jews.. just Israel, because the Arab states where linked more closer to the governing tactics of the Soviet Union, they are far more anti-western then Israel, which was used by America as a proxy in the region.. and try and try as Soviets did, they could never create another Arab state to be as good as Israel. Turkey is close, but Turkey is Turkey, and few people in history have used the Turks.. usually the Turks use someone else. So the Soviets (and America) failed at controling them.. however, Turkey is far more progressive and is a close friend to Israel. Secretly.

The other nations, like Egypt, Jordan (who now pretends Israel doesn't exist. like an ostrich if you will), Lebanon, syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, gulf states, etc..

That was the product of hightened nationalism, to be exact, under Nassar of Egypt, nationalism spread like wild fire.

So instead of "for Islam" it was "For Egypt, for Syria, for Jordan" and so forth .. everyone needs something to unite for.. Nationalism made an enemy, Israel, for being a product of the West. It was by all means, not Islamic, Not Arab, and hardly Semitic.. it was European.

When Nationalism collapsed after the Six Day War, radical Islam was its replacement.. where people could not be proud of their nation because they all failed at once against one tiny Jewish state, they now united against Israel on the religious front.

But don't be fooled.. it actually has nothing at all to do with religion. An Israeli can have no problem with a Palestinian, and vice versa, however, given the chance they would still kill each other. As bizzar as that sounds.. its the truth. Not for religious reasons.. not exactly for nationalistic reasons.. but just because they are different, and both sides grow up knowing "over that field lives the dirty Arabs" and "Over that fields live the dirty Jews". hate programed by those who exploit it.

Which happens to be the governments and militias of the region. Hammas, Hezbollah, and many others.. they don't care about Allah, Yaweh or God.. they have political and financial reason to wage war.. but to the lowly country man who just wants food and a safe house, the idea that your crusading for Allah is far more appealing then your crusading for Hammas's top political figures salary cut from the Palestinian treasury and the trade control for different regions in guns and drugs..

Same for Israel, no one on top cares about the religious side of it, only the political, and for the most part Israeli's can sort of see this. There are a good number of Muslims in the Israeli army for instance, as anyone who is a citizen must fight.

The entire situation is a web of crimes.. but its not the Israeli's population's fault that they live where they live.. Israel has been around to long now for someone to simply say "go home" because.. that is home, it is its own culture.. not saying Israel is innocent of all crimes, good lord, no, but all sides commit crimes, I think its best if people understand "why" they do.. which would be a first step to solving the problems instead of "joos" this and "terrrist" that.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


and how does iran feel? when israel openly say they will nuke them using the samson option? they feel a pre emptive strike at dimona to protect there own country would be in order.

don`t you dare spout the lie ` wipe from the map` which the iranian president did not say at the world without zionism confereance - he was talking about a peaceful regime change - as highlighted a few words later when he compared it russia or the fall of the berlin wall.


the day all the damn hot heads and zealots are removed from the ME then there will be peace - and thats not only from the arab/ persian countries - but israel as well.

[edit on 7/4/08 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by BlueRaja

Originally posted by ergoli
All Israeli wars were pre-emptive wars or wars of pure aggression and land theft. Pro-Israeli posters however like to distort that fact calling them "defensive warfare" or "active defense".

So exactly how much land mass has Israel acquired in all of these "wars of aggression?" I guess you forgot about them giving Egypt the land back. Golan Heights, etc...?

Israel has stolen around half of the land it is settling on from the palestinians. There are over 5 million fugitives who have been displaced by israeli terrorism who are waiting for their right to return to their homelands.

Originally posted by Dark Crystalline
Because the Jews believes that they're more superior then anyone else. They're figured this nonsense out to compensate their paranoia and inferior complexity, which is slowly but surely merged into their genes. Comparing them to the older Arabic Nations, the old Arab nations had a beautiful culture with traditions, fairy tales, legends, everything, such as their Catholic brothers. Until the found of Israel there was not so much aggression on the Middle East. Smaller Clan wars yes, smaller battles for land, yes, but since they're there, there is massacre and war. And what the Jews had before this time? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because everyone banished them for their fool behavior, for their lies and because they ruined everything what for they ever touched. That's why they want to take revenge on any Goyim on the planet, while everything was and still is their fault. But they're never going to admit it, because they're fools. And that's bringing their doom closer and closer day by day. They cannot and don't want to face, that they're causing all the problems for themselves, but they're lie even to themselves in this, because they cannot take responsibility for anything at all.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

Are you kidding?

Before the foundation of Israel there was peace in the Middle East? Have you any idea how much blood has been spilled in that part of the world over the long centuries? Even before Judaism existed, when the Egyptians, Akkadians, Hittites, et all were killing each other over it.

I can't think of a time of relative peace.

Who cares what they think? Who cares if they are sitting there, smugly, thinking to themselves "we are so great"?

The older Arabic nations? The Arabs have the biggest chip I have ever seen from any race, end of story. My flatmate lived in Saudi for 4 years, and he was astonished by just how much they argued. It's a racial trait to feel disrespected. Who knows why? Because until 7AD they were just warlike tribes, and then when they get a cohesive religion no-one else wants to accept it? Because when the Arabs got together they went and attacked everyone around them, relentlessly, with no heed to anything other than: they are not like us?

Who knows, but I'm sick of this "playing the victim" mentality. It's so childish. Millions of Jews dead in WW2, and I don't hear about the Jews whining about reparations from the Germans, I hear about them defeating massive Arab armies and suffering terrorist attacks against their boarders. I hear about them holding their heads up and saying "fine, if the world is like this, let it come".

But as soon as the Arabs start on the Jews, and get beaten up, they bleet like an injured dog that wishes it hadn't attacked it's master. It's pathetic.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by Dark Crystalline

 

well that was utter junk if i ever read it

Because the Jews believes that they're more superior then anyone else

Really? Come to Hungary and you will hear this day by day from the Jews. They're superiors. They're the so called chosen one. Unfortunately there is one damned chosen one race on the planet that the Jews still wants to destroy since they met with them. There were other chosen races, but only the Hungarian is the one, which is still exist as a whole nation. They wanted to exterminate us earlier, just as now. They're creating conflicts, while they're staying in the background. I didn't hate them until the beginning of the 21st century. But under 8 years, they ruined my country, they're trying to kill our traditions, they believe they have right for everything. They even called in the IDF to protect their liar Jewish regime after the citizens realized what is really going on in their own country. They're even threatening our Hungarian citizens with the Mosad that they have the license to kill anyone in our own country. They turned my people to their enemies. And they will deserve if they will be banished from here. But this ends soon. They're messing with the wrong nation this time, because the Hungarian is a peaceful nation, but we're one of the greatest freedom fighters on the planet. And that's a fact. And God may mercy on the soul of those ones, whose are trying to destroy my beloved country again.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Dark Crystalline]

Why doesn't the US give the Palestinians the same multi-billion dollar weapons package it gave to Israel last year? Why is AIPAC allowed to openly solicit donations from U.S citizens and Palestinians can't? Enough with the double standards already! Give the Palestinians tanks and fighter jets, I bet that will stop the suicide bombers.

reply to post by Dark Crystalline


First of all, I'm not Jewish or Israeli. I was only responding to why some had hated the Jewish people, and apparently I hit home somewhere, judging by your reaction. To answer your question about the jealousy- that's a religious issue, but it has to do with God giving Abraham's son Isaac his blessing rather than Ishmael(whose descendents were the Arabs). You have to look at the Arab/Israeli conflict in a religious light, to understand the dynamics involved. If you try to look at it without this context, you'll completely miss this.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin

Who knows, but I'm sick of this "playing the victim" mentality. It's so childish. Millions of Jews dead in WW2, and I don't hear about the Jews whining about reparations from the Germans, I hear about them defeating massive Arab armies and suffering terrorist attacks against their boarders

Israel wants more money

debt paid - yet they want more money 50 years later , ao don`t begin to take the moral high ground - the zionists will try and screw everyone on the `holocaust` (see the thread about when an israeli miniuster calling for a holocaust on the people of gaza - oh and it would be there own fault it happened)

suffering terrorist attacks? *cough* irgun - israel started it all off down there with the murder of british soldiers.

reply to post by taybes


The same reason the IRA were openly allowed to fund raise in the USA, with *tacit* government approval.

Israel is surrounded by Iranian terror fighters, Hamas and Hisbollah. When Olmert gets real and remembers 1967, he will remember how Israel didn't wait for a second Shoah. Israel should act the same now and take the initiative and eliminate the Iranian threat for a couple of generations. In the ME it's survival of the fittest. Israel has the capability. It must now find the will to take the battle to the enemy and completely eliminate the Iranian terror.