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Israel threatens Iran with destruction
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All Israeli wars were pre-emptive wars or wars of pure aggression and land theft. Pro-Israeli posters however like to distort that fact calling them
"defensive warfare" or "active defense".
Originally posted by bodrul
i dont know, now which war did they flatten their air force of egypt and so on in one swift strike?
That would be the Six Day War, which Israel launched after Egypt kicked the UN Peacekeeping force out of the Sinai, and began massive troops and armor on the Israeli border, while calling on Arab states to join and destroy Israel.
reply to post by bodrul
Uhmmm.. Bodrul .. you do know WHY Israel attacked Egypt to begin with ... right? And seeing as your referencing history, you would obviously know what would have happened had Israel NOT attacked Egypt?
Egypt had just been supplied an entire airforce from the Soviets.. the MIGS out powered and out numbered Israel's air force.. along with Egyptian ground forces and the forces of all her allies, Israel was forced to attack Egypt's air force in one quick attack. Which went far better then Israel could have imagined, they lost few planes in the attack and decimated the entire Egyptian air fleet.. a perfect attack essentially. With air superiority, it did not matter how many ground troops the ME allies threw at Israel, as Israel still had her entire air force left.
But you knew that..
Which makes me think you're just spinning it for the sake of spinning?
Israel said that "if" Iran "attacked" then Israel would "destroy" Iran...
Which we all knew anyways, Israel knew, Iran knew, You knew.. its not new news.. its old news.
These two countries have been sabre rattling for .. ever really..
Uhmmm.. Bodrul .. you do know WHY Israel attacked Egypt to begin with ... right? And seeing as your referencing history, you would obviously know what would have happened had Israel NOT attacked Egypt?
Egypt had just been supplied an entire airforce from the Soviets.. the MIGS out powered and out numbered Israel's air force.. along with Egyptian ground forces and the forces of all her allies, Israel was forced to attack Egypt's air force in one quick attack. Which went far better then Israel could have imagined, they lost few planes in the attack and decimated the entire Egyptian air fleet.. a perfect attack essentially. With air superiority, it did not matter how many ground troops the ME allies threw at Israel, as Israel still had her entire air force left.
But you knew that..
Which makes me think you're just spinning it for the sake of spinning?
Israel said that "if" Iran "attacked" then Israel would "destroy" Iran...
Which we all knew anyways, Israel knew, Iran knew, You knew.. its not new news.. its old news.
These two countries have been sabre rattling for .. ever really..
reply to post by ergoli
got agree there
most Israeli supporters will support Israel despite their actions.
even so it may be double standerds
got agree there
most Israeli supporters will support Israel despite their actions.
even so it may be double standerds
reply to post by Rockpuck
i think there is more to the 6 day war though
because straight after that the Arabs got state of the art weapons from the US
dont want to go off topic but i think there is more to the story.
but on Iran and Israel i wont argue there
i think there is more to the 6 day war though
because straight after that the Arabs got state of the art weapons from the US
dont want to go off topic but i think there is more to the story.
but on Iran and Israel i wont argue there
Originally posted by ergoli
All Israeli wars were pre-emptive wars or wars of pure aggression and land theft. Pro-Israeli posters however like to distort that fact calling them "defensive warfare" or "active defense".
First, the best defense is an offense. Secondly, all land "theft" as you say, occured during the Six Day War in which Israel beat Egypt and Syria and took the land they used to stage military build-ups.. originally Israel took all the land right up to the Red Sea but was talked into giving it back. Palestine was an unfortunate case for Israel, but then again Egypt didn't exactly want them back. neither did Jordan, nor Lebanon.
reply to post by ergoli
1948 - Preemptive? Who declared war on whom exactly?
1973 - Preemptive? Who declared war on whom exactly?
Anti-Israeli posters however do not care for facts or distort them.
1948 - Preemptive? Who declared war on whom exactly?
1973 - Preemptive? Who declared war on whom exactly?
Anti-Israeli posters however do not care for facts or distort them.
reply to post by Rockpuck
under International laws land that is occupied for military reasons
cant be used to exapnd ones Cities and so on.
Israel is in breach of that , also Israel refuses to give back land to syria golham heights and so on.
if israels intentions was just strategic then they wouldnt be putting squatters on occupied land
under International laws land that is occupied for military reasons
cant be used to exapnd ones Cities and so on.
Israel is in breach of that , also Israel refuses to give back land to syria golham heights and so on.
if israels intentions was just strategic then they wouldnt be putting squatters on occupied land
Originally posted by BlueRaja Israel has never called for the destruction of Iran, or claimed it to be an illegitimate state. All Israel wants is for things to stop blowing up in its streets. They're perfectly willing to peacefully coexist with their neighbors. It's their neighbors who aren't willing to peacefully coexist. It's a case of all or nothing, with no compromise.
Straw rejects Israeli call for attack on Iran
The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, today dismissed an Israeli call to attack Iran immediately following a strike on Iraq, and called a war on Iran "the gravest possible error".
In an interview in today's Times, the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, identified Iran as a "centre of world terror". Mr Sharon advocated a military strike against the country as soon as the US and Britain had completed their proposed attack on Iraq.
"Iran makes every effort to possess weapons of mass destruction, on the one hand, and ballistic missiles," he told the paper. "That is a danger to the Middle East, to Israel, and a danger to Europe."
[edit on 4/7/08 by LLoyd45]
Originally posted by Rockpuck
Palestine was an unfortunate case for Israel, but then again Egypt didn't exactly want them back. neither did Jordan, nor Lebanon.
The Arab states carried little for "Palestine" until after they had been soundly defeated several times in war. Before that, Jordan annexed the West Bank, and Egypt held control of the Gaza strip. Then they tired of wasting their own soldiers against Israel, and found the Palestinians to be much better pawns in their wars against the Jews.
reply to post by bodrul
Looking at the conflicts between Israel and Egypt, not just the Six Day War.. it is apparent that the US and Britain where heavily involved in the negotiations before and after because of the trade lines. I would not be surprised is America and Britain told Israel when to attack, how to attack and supplied efficient intelligence on Egyptian military locations.. because the strike was so well done it rivals our initial strikes on Iraq. An entire air force caught off guard? Unlikely..
Not saying that Israel was in the wrong, but they had obvious help. Egypt was compensated by getting her land back, making Israel keep the Palestinians and was immediatly forgiven by the international world for the nationalistic movements spread throughout the ME by Nassar.
The Canal is important enough for the biggest powers to be involved. Even the Soviets where heavily involved with the Canal.
Looking at the conflicts between Israel and Egypt, not just the Six Day War.. it is apparent that the US and Britain where heavily involved in the negotiations before and after because of the trade lines. I would not be surprised is America and Britain told Israel when to attack, how to attack and supplied efficient intelligence on Egyptian military locations.. because the strike was so well done it rivals our initial strikes on Iraq. An entire air force caught off guard? Unlikely..
Not saying that Israel was in the wrong, but they had obvious help. Egypt was compensated by getting her land back, making Israel keep the Palestinians and was immediatly forgiven by the international world for the nationalistic movements spread throughout the ME by Nassar.
The Canal is important enough for the biggest powers to be involved. Even the Soviets where heavily involved with the Canal.
Originally posted by LLoyd45
Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to [ Israel has never called for the destruction of Iran, or claimed it to be an illegitimate state. All Israel wants is for things to stop blowing up in its streets. They're perfectly willing to peacefully coexist with their neighbors. It's their neighbors who aren't willing to peacefully coexist. It's a case of all or nothing, with no compromise.
The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, today dismissed an Israeli call to attack Iran immediately following a strike on Iraq, and called a war on Iran "the gravest possible error".
In an interview in today's Times, the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, identified Iran as a "centre of world terror". Mr Sharon advocated a military strike against the country as soon as the US and Britain had completed their proposed attack on Iraq.
"Iran makes every effort to possess weapons of mass destruction, on the one hand, and ballistic missiles," he told the paper. "That is a danger to the Middle East, to Israel, and a danger to Europe."
And this disproves what BlueRaja said, how? No where in your quote does Israel call Iran "illegitimate" or calls for Iran's destruction.
Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by Rockpuck
under International laws land that is occupied for military reasons
cant be used to exapnd ones Cities and so on.
Israel is in breach of that , also Israel refuses to give back land to syria golham heights and so on.
if israels intentions was just strategic then they wouldnt be putting squatters on occupied land
Theres no such thing as International Law.. only International Treaties.. and the guidlines for following a Treaty is quite simply.. ones own opinion. For instance, its against International Treaties for Israel to have nukes, but they do have nukes.. we all know they do.. but whats anyone going to do about it?? .. Nothing..
But why should Israel hand back land to people the beat at war? .. The land was taken because it was used for the staging of the war.. Some land like the West Bank was taken because of the water.. the burden of the Palestinians was not enough to spurn access to Water..
But either way.. give Palestinian lands back to those Israel took them from, and the next attack will be like Lebanon, only it will be Jordan and Egypt.
Who if you recall hate Palestinians and don't want them back.
Palestine could be its own nation.. but its devided and would be a weak governing structure. The other problem is the lack of industry, and the violence of the area prevents industrial build up.. they could be post industrial one day like Israel but someone has to invest first. I don't see that happening, as I don't see Palestinian violence through corrupted governments stopping, and because that won't stop, Israel bombing their cities won't stop.
reply to post by ergoli
This sounds like more tripe from the "terrorists times" media.
Now let’s think logically about this for a sec, ok?
"An Israeli minister has threatened Iran with destroying the country if the Islamic Republic launches 'an attack on the regime'. "
Referring to the Israeli government as a "regime" is words from Muslim terrorists, such as Iran/Syria and their lapdogs Hezbollah and Hamas.
To say this is questionable is beyond obvious, well, to anyone with 2 functioning brain cells or more......
This sounds like more tripe from the "terrorists times" media.
Now let’s think logically about this for a sec, ok?
"An Israeli minister has threatened Iran with destroying the country if the Islamic Republic launches 'an attack on the regime'. "
Referring to the Israeli government as a "regime" is words from Muslim terrorists, such as Iran/Syria and their lapdogs Hezbollah and Hamas.
To say this is questionable is beyond obvious, well, to anyone with 2 functioning brain cells or more......
Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by BlueRaja
i dont know, now which war did they flatten their air force of egypt and so on in one swift strike?
mmmmh thats a hard question,
any ideas mr/mrs Raja
I wonder if you might enlighten us as to what the Egyptian(and other Arab) Air Forces, and Armies were doing right before Israel waged that war of "aggression."
A call to War is basically the same thing to me. You're talking about semantics when you ask for a word-for-word quote.
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And this disproves what BlueRaja said, how? No where in your quote does Israel call Iran "illegitimate" or calls for Iran's destruction.
They're zealots on stolen land , armed with illegal nuclear weapons that try to hold the Middle East hostage to their blackmail attempts.
Personally we should withdraw all military and financial support to their country, and let them fight their own battles. I see no reason we should provide them with over 5 Billion dollars in aid each year. Do you?
Originally posted by LLoyd45
reply to post by BlueRaja
Israel violates human rights daily(Palestinians), territiorial rights of other countries frequently (Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt), and in 1981 destroyed Iraq's Bagdad reactor program.
Now why aren't inspection demanded for their illegal nuclear programs?
Don't sidestep the question this time, please.
[edit on 4/7/08 by LLoyd45]
Israelis getting shot and blown up indescriminately isn't a violation of human rights?
Please tell me you're not gonna defend Saddam's attempt at developing nuclear weapons, or that Israel ensuring he never got the bomb is in any way a negative thing. That's an interesting spin.
If Israel was a state sponsor of terror/safe haven for terrorists, or hadn't demonstrated the ability to act in a civilized manner, there might be more interest. If Israel had been trying to expand its territory in conquests of its neighbors, or had called for the annihilation of its neighbors, there might be more interest. If it were a known fact that Israel had nukes and was a signatory of the non-proliferation treaty, then there might be more interest. I wonder if you notice a pattern here?
Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by BlueRaja
your joking right?
so all those times Israel has threatend Iran with pre-emtive strikes on its facilities and so on doesnt count as a threat
No- I'm completely serious. If you can't see the difference between threatening an offensive act, and threatening retaliation against an offensive act, then I'm not sure what else to tell you. Without a basic grasp of that concept, anything else I'd say would be for nought.
Of course, you all realize that this and other incidents of saber-rattling are all part of the on-going information war right?
I think we might all be surprised if we could see a documentary on current events produced 100-years hence. It is evident that we cannot trust the sources of our information - and I'm not referring to you all, who seem to be honest students of current affairs.
As an American, I am very sensitive to the fact that the marketing efforts regarding middle-eastern news is so powerful and effective that I can barely tell what is true and what is not anymore. I would rely on academicians, but I think they are all dead or hiding, since all that seems to be left are the meat puppets of the intelligencia elite, aching for their 15-minutes of fame on some "docutainment" piece about Israel and her alleged love affair with the US.
I hope in your debate you realize that, in the old days, threats had to be realistic to qualify as 'cause' for military action. But the precedent had been established in via Iraq, now the threat can be fabricated for all international diplomacy is concerned. The Korea's, the middle east, South America, they all are setting the stage for new 'entertainment' for our bloodthirsty leaders. (AND YES I MEAN ALL OF THEM). I contend that ALL regimes in place within this parody we call global community are in fact acting as one, whether it is indeed for one entity or organization is irrelevant, their actions diminish us all to the point of being pawns.
[edit on 7-4-2008 by Maxmars]
I think we might all be surprised if we could see a documentary on current events produced 100-years hence. It is evident that we cannot trust the sources of our information - and I'm not referring to you all, who seem to be honest students of current affairs.
As an American, I am very sensitive to the fact that the marketing efforts regarding middle-eastern news is so powerful and effective that I can barely tell what is true and what is not anymore. I would rely on academicians, but I think they are all dead or hiding, since all that seems to be left are the meat puppets of the intelligencia elite, aching for their 15-minutes of fame on some "docutainment" piece about Israel and her alleged love affair with the US.
I hope in your debate you realize that, in the old days, threats had to be realistic to qualify as 'cause' for military action. But the precedent had been established in via Iraq, now the threat can be fabricated for all international diplomacy is concerned. The Korea's, the middle east, South America, they all are setting the stage for new 'entertainment' for our bloodthirsty leaders. (AND YES I MEAN ALL OF THEM). I contend that ALL regimes in place within this parody we call global community are in fact acting as one, whether it is indeed for one entity or organization is irrelevant, their actions diminish us all to the point of being pawns.
[edit on 7-4-2008 by Maxmars]
Well, let’s see. In the 72 war, Syria sent up 80+ migs (in The Bakaa Valley battle) and all were shot down.
Not one Israeli piloted plane was shot down in dog fighting-for that battle.
(Many were destroyed when they used wild weasels to destroy some 80% of Syria's radar/missile radar sites. In fact, so many were destroyed that Syria actually shut off the rest of the sites so it did not lose ALL of its radar.)
Wild weasel's are planes that have missiles that follow a radar been back to its dish.
It insures death to the site but has a VERY high plane fatality rate.
Wild Weasel Note, this is not a specific airframe, it is a purpose, there have been several airframes that have served as the basis of wild weasels.
Not one Israeli piloted plane was shot down in dog fighting-for that battle.
(Many were destroyed when they used wild weasels to destroy some 80% of Syria's radar/missile radar sites. In fact, so many were destroyed that Syria actually shut off the rest of the sites so it did not lose ALL of its radar.)
Wild weasel's are planes that have missiles that follow a radar been back to its dish.
It insures death to the site but has a VERY high plane fatality rate.
Wild Weasel Note, this is not a specific airframe, it is a purpose, there have been several airframes that have served as the basis of wild weasels.
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