World's largest experiment set to go off with a Big Bang

Actually this summer not much is going to happen. If they meet the "deadline" they'll finally fire it up and make some test runs, testing mainly the equipment. Actual collisions aren't going to happen yet...maybe in a year or something.

The problem with this is that if anything is wrong the whole reparing process takes quite some time. 2 Months to uncool the magnets, 1 month to find and fix the problem and another 2 months to cool down the magnets, that’s almost half a year wasted on fixing one issue. Of course it’s not like they’re doing nothing meanwhile, they have plenty of other things to work on.

So, just to clarify something that's been bothering me for over a page now:

Multiple people here, who, given their replies have no formal education in physics. [Or it was simply so long ago they can't remember basics.] Much less understand the physics involved in this experiment, much less on this particular scale, are throwing absurd opinions and suggestions around and acting conspiratorial?

Here's my 'shotgun-reply'; I apologize if I miss any particular suggestion:

i. No one is going to hold a vote. Much like the 'atomic bomb + atmosphere = teh fire' quote that was brought up -- The concept was early, and the vast majority of the scientists, certainly, the scientists involved in the project now discount that possibility. The exotic matter they discuss is theoretical at best, and no example has ever been found, has ever been evidenced, and only in extreme conjecture is it possible.

ii. Simply because we're doing something we haven't done before doesn't mean anything is possible -- Much less how you can suggest that in the same reply where an OXFORD PARTICLE PHYSICIST discounts the idea.
Tell me: Has anyone ever simultaneously popped three-hundred fifty-nine thousand, six-hundred, twenty-one helium balloons?
Most likely not.
[If so, show me the YouTube! It'd certainly cheer up my day.]
But I don't think if we did, we universe would implode.

While that metaphor doesn't take into account that the particle accelerator is using advanced physics, etc. It is along the same lines as what multiple people here are theorizing.

iii. Being -280*C has nothing to do with explosions. And my guess, having [very limited] education in physics, is that that temperature is required for the magnets, or some such thing.

iv. It's not a matter of raising money, or building it.
They've all-ready done both.
Please read the flipping article before you open your mouth.

v. A trillion degrees exists for what in my guess would be femoseconds, attoseconds, etc. And it would exists solely between the particles colliding. It's not as though this entire machine is suddenly going to be trillions of degrees hot.

vi. Holy sweet God ... there is not going to be a time rift.
That ... that's not even possible theoretically .. I mean .. I mean ..
Ow. My head.
And it's not the alcohol this time.

reply to post by Disgustipated


They also said the Titanic was unsinkable, and well look what happened. This is more likely to be a success then a failure but it is really interesting to see the outcome. You never know, maybe that is how we started!

T diverge a bit Off topic... If I had the cash, I'd take you up on your "three-hundred fifty-nine thousand, six-hundred, twenty-one helium balloons" challenge, just for fun. But I can't, so I won't.

Right! On Topic: The chances that the CERN system will cause the eradication of the planet and/or solar system are so remote that they almost shouldn't be a topic. But that being said, We all take risks every day... If you just walk to the grocery store (not even driving) , Your odds of dying are huge compared to the possibility of dying from this machine. I'll flip the switch, if they let me. A billion to one odds that all we experience in the test chamber is weird stuff that we'll collectively take years and years trying to interpret. I'll bet my life, the lives of my 2 younger brothers (5 YO), and, well, the entire planet on it. If we all end up dead in some type of afterlife, you can kick my butt for all eternity.

Wow, does this remind anybody else here of the movie that just came out on DVD, The Mist??

From the source...

The collider may also reveal more exotic phenomena such as anti-matter, the opposite of ordinary matter, mini black holes and even extra dimensions.

From the movie...

With the discovery that two soldiers from the Arrowhead Project committed suicide during the expedition's absence, the remaining soldier (Samuel Witwer) reveals that the project, an attempt to look into other dimensions, was the origin of the mist.
en.wikipedia.org...(film)

They called it the Arrowhead project, while the real life one is the Alice project. Man, I hope it doesn't turn out like that one did.

Originally posted by MostlyHarmless
T diverge a bit Off topic... If I had the cash, I'd take you up on your "three-hundred fifty-nine thousand, six-hundred, twenty-one helium balloons" challenge, just for fun. But I can't, so I won't.

Right! On Topic: The chances that the CERN system will cause the eradication of the planet and/or solar system are so remote that they almost shouldn't be a topic. But that being said, We all take risks every day... If you just walk to the grocery store (not even driving) , Your odds of dying are huge compared to the possibility of dying from this machine. I'll flip the switch, if they let me. A billion to one odds that all we experience in the test chamber is weird stuff that we'll collectively take years and years trying to interpret. I'll bet my life, the lives of my 2 younger brothers (5 YO), and, well, the entire planet on it. If we all end up dead in some type of afterlife, you can kick my butt for all eternity.

One day, one day my friend, we will have to test this grand experiment of mine.
And it shall be glorious.
And epic.

Anyway!
I whole-heartedly agree, as you could probably gather from my post above.
A note, if you're interested -- in one of the last two issues of Scientific American, they discussed this particle collider, along with its planned successor, and alternatives, and some of the information was pretty fascinating.
They end up only taking the tiniest fraction of data out of each experiment -- not because the rest isn't important, it's because to store the data of the entire experiment, they'd .. well. Have to have a hard-drive the size of a small building.
Not exactly a quote there, but I think you understand the enormity of what's occurring during every collision.

The collider may also reveal more exotic phenomena such as anti-matter, the opposite of ordinary matter, mini black holes and even extra dimensions.

It sounds to me like they don't know WTF this thing is going to do!!

They're just going to go ahead and crash particles into eachother w/o knowing what will happen... NICE!

Most experts believe the explosions created when the particles hit each other will reveal the basic building blocks of everything around us. There are some, however, who fear it could destroy the planet.

Seriously, is this a warning that says, "Ya, we admit, we don't know what is going to happen." or are they just hyping this up? I for one hope they know this isn't going to lead to something bad.

reply to post by Techsnow


No joke. I can't believe I just watched the movie I linked to above, and thought how lame it would be if it actually happened, only to read about a project that almost mirrors the one in the movie the next day. Creepy as hell.

They're calling it the Alice project, like through the looking glass I assume...

[edit on 7-4-2008 by 27jd]

I guess if they're wrong, and it all goes terribly wrong- We won't be around to worry about who takes the blame.
No worries?

How's that song go...? Ah yes...

I see, the bad moon rising,
I see, trouble on the way,
I see, earthquakes and lightnin'
I see, bad times comin' our way

...or something like that.

I think there is a small risk of a uncontrollable sustained reaction occurring, but whether it will affect local area or global, one cannot truly say. The energies that will be raised will be collossal, and the behaviour of 'new' matter arising is not predictable. It all rests on sustainability...the length of the life of the breakout. Obviously, we cannot reason with those whom believe themselves to be right.

Best wishes

Honestly i don't think the world is going to implode when this machine gets activated it could but i don't think the world will end that way maybe it will just release some sort of other dimension or some weird # at least as they basically say who knows what it will do.

The thing that pisses me of is i have a God given right to life and i should have the right to choose what happens in my life and that is the problem here.
We have all given up our rights to make life's major choices we traded that in for knowledge we have given the scientist and leaders in this world the right to search, experiment and really do what ever they want in the search for answers sure they have given us a lot of awesome things along the way but are we truly better of with them IMO no, if i could trade all the tech we have today for a simple and easy life i would.
I guess iv gone a little off track here but I'm just trying to make the simple point that this article just shows us that we are not in control and we haven't been since we started to get others to find the answers for us and now we have given control of our lives for the so called better of humanity but truly who is better off us or them.

What's that?

They're going to open up a dimension rift in time for my birthday?

Maybe i do live a blessed existence after all...

edit; er... this is... not good... i have memories of dreams about such things, specifically my age...

[edit on 8-4-2008 by Throbber]

for those of you who don't get what i mean, i kinda feel like this one is going to 'set fire to the atmosphere' or something like that...

I'm not one to ignore hunches when i get them.

reply to post by Iblis


You're right. I really think that alot of the posters on this thread just don't understand the concept of a supercollider like CERN well enough to realize that it isn't dangerous. Not that I blame anybody of course. I know what it sounds like when it's described by the media.

I study astrophysics and cosmochemistry and CERN is, understandably (I hope), very interesting to me. What everyone has to realize about a supercollider like CERN, is that the results of this kind of particle collision are only in existence for a femtosecond or two ('femto' meaning a billionth of a millionth, or 1x10^-15 seconds). This all happens in a magnetically sealed vacuum, meaning that even if a tiny black hole was created, it would exist for a mere femtosecond and have no mass to 'eat'. It would wink out of existence so fast that it would take particulate physicists months or years to even detect that it existed.

Of course, there is a risk of the unknown here, but this sort of thing has been studied by many people for many years. In all honesty, it has about as much of a chance of hurting people as the average person has of being cratered by a meteorite while walking into the local Wal-Mart.

So I wouldn't dig a bunker over it folks.

At first, I read these postings with great concern. Then I remembered a popular statement that says , ".. the government is 20-30 yrs advanced of what the general population is aware of" . With that in mind, whatever happens at the new facility is history repeating itself. We will not all die from a mini black hole created by these "scientist" that are trying to unlock the meaning of subatomic universe. It is often said that, " science is the search for truth and religion is the search for goodness" . I have found fault with both.

Although I am "sure" that nothing bad is going to happen, what about "The temperatures produced by these collisions will be 100,000 times hotter than the centre of the sun". How they are going to deal with it even if the experiment takes place in a vacuum chamber? Or since it is in vacuum, temperature (even such a high temperature) will stay at the specific point of explosion?

Originally posted by Techsnow

The collider may also reveal more exotic phenomena such as anti-matter, the opposite of ordinary matter, mini black holes and even extra dimensions.

It sounds to me like they don't know WTF this thing is going to do!!

They're just going to go ahead and crash particles into eachother w/o knowing what will happen... NICE!

27jd doesn't say where this quote is from. Anyway. Neither antimatter, black holes nor extra dimensions are exotic phenomena in modern physics. I see nothing to suggest ignorance by by CERN scientists...

Anyway, lets look at simple science. The concern seems to be focused black holes growing out of control right?

Black holes use gravitational force to grow by pulling more matter into itself. If a black hole is created at CERN it will be only a few atoms big. A few atoms on their own has extremely little gravitational force, so a hole would grow extremely slowly.

Add to this that the experiment will be conducted in a vacuum (e.g. there is no matter present for the hole to grow). Ad again that any black hole the size of a few atoms will evaporate in a fraction of a second, and what do you get?

A perfectly safe experiment.

I would be more worried about cutting an onion, my eyes might sting a bit.

g

It's also worth remembering that the collisions created in the LHC are limited by the fact that this was the most expensive maching we could afford to build - and is nothing to do with reaching the upper limits of anything

The reality is that nature produces cosmic rays with much higher energy levels that LHC can manage, and these buggers are zipping past all the time. If they could produce stranglets we'd have turned into a small ball of strange matter billions of years ago.

Likewise, the same equations that govern the potential creation of black holes in the LHC also describe how they evaporate. The two things are completely interlinked.

can I please push the button If the world does burn, i really hope 1 people lives to tell the story about who push the button. Lets do this today, we all know nothing bad will come from this.

OOps double post.

[edit on 4/8/2008 by sputniksteve]