Economic conspiracy? Are my eyes deceiving me?

Every day, the MSM spends endless hours telling us how bad the economy is and that the U.S. is heading to some sort of depression. But this doesn't add up because when I look at the towns and cities all I see is growth and endless job opportunities. Now granted I am from Canada and this news is in our media everyday too. We cannot seem to get enough workers. Our newspapers have pages and pages of new job opportunities even from the small town that I grew up in. The people in my family that live in the states tell me that this idea that of a huge economic downturn is absolute bogus from what they experience there. So tell me are my eyes deceiving me (is the media lying to us)? What could they possibly gain from giving false information about the economy? Who benefits? Am I alone when all I see is prosperity?

Ever ask why they post jobs in papers instead of recruiting at schools? It's because they want experience and not just someone out of school. That's the root of the problem. So actually there are no jobs or arent many because those looking to employ are fa, fa, fa foolin. Therefore the economy is doing bad in the job sector because of employers too high unreasonable demands being placed. It's as though those hiring jobs dont really count. And they shouldnt count because they are see-through.

reply to post by Mabus


I see the point you're making and I respect it. But that doesn't mean that workers for those jobs are not needed. And besides most jobs require training (those jobs that are worth having), Whether it be a school or on job experience. There are plenty of truck driving jobs, jobs in the trades, etc. that require minimal training and most jobs that do require experience ie trades, have apprenticeship programs. Plus many universities and colleges, in certain subjects, have work experience at a job that pertains to the degree or diploma that the student is enrolled in that give the students credits in that course. And more often than not the company that they worked for to get the work experience credits, will hire them when they graduate. Civil engineering is a great example of this.

Maybe I should've added something to the OP which is when you look around you, does it seem like the economy is going bust or is it in fact growing? If I get an overwhelming response of "Yes in my town or city or neighborhood people are looking for work and my town/city/neighborhood is not growing at all" then I will willingly ask for this thread to be closed.

There's a lot of construction going on in my U.S city. That gives us the sense that it is still growing here. WHether that is the case or not, I'm not for sure. How can you tell? I mean all my friends have jobs. I don't know too many people but they are all working.

WHat kinds of things do you look for to tell how your city is doing? I figure construction and jobs would be the way, but who knows?

Tela

reply to post by Telafree


That's great to hear and a good question. Surely construction is definitely a sign of a good economy but not the only one. New businesses coming in, replacing old infrastructure, immigration to the the city, and I think also you can also tell how good a city is doing by what is the crime rate doing. I say this because more often than not, poverty tends to increase the crime. I think that also a good indicator would be if you took a drive around the city, does it seem like its falling apart? Alot of bad neighborhoods? etc. But if you really want a simple rule of thumb, just count the number of sky scrapers...

The problem is that economic downturns or recessions start at the bottom.

When the prices of necessities outstrip your pay,things have to be let go.
It gets down to what basics you can afford.Business suffers because people can't buy thier products.Then come layoffs,forclosed homes,
bankruptcies,slowing building starts,and on and on right up to the top.

Right now in the larger cities there may well be much growth
,as evidenced by several post to that effect.In the smaller cities and towns things are looking dismal indeed.People having to give up things that most of us take for granted.Cable tv or directv,cell phones,even the ability to eat out at a resturant,money is extremly tight for a lot of people.Most of this problem stems from gasoline prices increasing,makes everything else higher in turn.

Don't trust your eyes too much - sooner or later you'll only be able to see what you're looking at instead of the factors that lie therein.

Just because the bear is sh#tting in the woods, does not mean that you know why.

edit; some more details on the 'prosperity' that you're experiencing would be welcome.

Data such as industry booms and commercial value estimations would be a step in the direction i'm pointing to.

[edit on 5-4-2008 by Throbber]

reply to post by daddyroo45


Thank you for your comments
"The problem is that economic downturns or recessions start at the bottom"
I agree totally with that statement

"In the smaller cities and towns things are looking dismal indeed."

Really? I have seen quite the opposite. Many towns including my hometown (now a city of 10000) are growing so fast that the city is having trouble keeping the sewage system up to snuff. Same with the city of Winnipeg where I currently live. They are doing some amazing stuff including heating an entire section of the city with geothermal units. (still in the works). But the story is most obvious in Alberta. Every town and city are absolutely booming. They have literally no more room for people because they can't build fast enough. People are living in hotels and all them are packed. I'm actually gonna be working out there this fall because they need workers and they pay a pretty penny for it.

As far as necessities go, right now the consumer is having a field day IMO. Cell phone companies are competing for consumers and that competition is leading to the lowest prices I've seen yet. Same with internet providers, cable providers... the prices I see now are the lowest I've ever seen. I've seen the same thing with food. Since more and more grocery stores are popping up, they gotta find a way to attract customers, ie lower prices. There is one thing we do agree on and that is gasoline prices. Yes it's hard to trade up our gas guzzlers for something that does a little better on gas, but I don't see it as a bad thing. The reason I don't see it as a bad thing is because if you look at the advances that they making in technology ( namely nano tech, especially batteries), what is coming in a couple of years will be a million times better. But I agree when a shift happens like getting off gasoline, its not very pretty but it is necessary. The only constant in this world is change, and I see it changing for the better

Daddyroo, my question to you is, is the US so dissimilar right now that they are heading towards a depression? Do you see whereever you live going down the proverbial crapper? or is it just media chicken little propaganda?

[edit on 5-4-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

Originally posted by daddyroo45
Then come layoffs,forclosed homes,
bankruptcies,slowing building starts,and on and on right up to the top.

In my case, I'm not seeing a lot of this. Especially the foreclosed homes. Houses in my neighborhodd are mostly being baught up, fixed up, then sold again.

Someone said, count the skyscrapers, they are building one and its one of 5 that have come up in the past 2 years. They are building a whole new section to be part of the skyline in fact. It's kind of insane to watch.



Tela

reply to post by Throbber


If I had more time I would go and look for such statistics and maybe I will get around to it. Nevertheless in what Ive experienced over the last couple of years is that homes keep getting built, the value goes up substantially every year, I've seen alot of businesses expand and more and more foreign businesses that are new to Canada come up here in the last couple of years.

I know that probably will not be adequate for you and I do apologize for not having figures and statistics on economic growth but tell me Throbber, what have you seen with your eyes where you live? Prosperity or depression?

its kind of strange my town of 20 thousand people or so. in the last couple of years thare has been about 6 new banks built and 2 old banks built new buildings, but all but one car company delership closed only a couple of used car delershipes left.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

Luke maybe I just live in a more economicly depressed part of the country.WE have a lot of people out of work.people struggling to feed thier families.I don't know if we are headed for a nation wide recession,but we sure are in one here.

First I have to say, Canada is not experiencing the economic downturn that the US is. Period. So no one in Canada can say that "things are good in their town or region, so there must be no economic downturn." That's the dumbest reasoning I've ever heard. The only places things are economically depressed in Canada are places that have been economically depressed for decades, long before the current economic downturn the US is experiencing, like Nunavut, Maritimes, etc.

Further, the only thing that could possibly construed as a downturn in the Canadian economy is the fact that since the $USD is in the crapper, Canadian manufacturing takes a bit of a hit. Canadian manufacturing itself doesn't have to lay off all its workers like they would have you believe; instead they just sell a couple fewer units to US customers per $USD.

The Canadian economy is stronger than it ever has been. The Canadian gov't is in a ridiculously sound place, having had a trade surplus for the past 10 years. Construction is booming everywhere. Canada still has a great manufacturing base. There are thousands of jobs waiting to be filled in the most populous places like Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary. Canada isn't in the precarious situation of having to import fuel like the US is. And to top it all off, the Loonie is doing amazing compared to the $USD. For those who don't know, the $CDN was at about $.70 USD in the early 2000s and now it's at par.

The reason a Canadian can look around and see nothing wrong is because there is nothing wrong in Canada.

As for the US, well to try to dispute that things are worse now than they have been since the last time there was a bad recession is ignorant. Some, I repeat SOME areas of the US are still going through construction booms and some fields still have lots of jobs to offer but this just is not the case for most people in most job fields in most locations. To dispute that most people are dealing with drastic increases in the prices of food and fuel (two things that for some retarded reason are not included in the government's inflation index), meanwhile they have not had an increase in their pay since circa 2000, well that's ignorant too. One can also not dispute that not just individuals but business and even municipalities are having their credit rating slashed off at the knees because they are unable to make payments in a timely fashion. Lenders are clamping down on credit and even people with perfect credit scores are unable to secure home, auto, or personal loans at decent interest rates, and students are unable to secure student loans at all.


So basically, my point is, to anyone who doesn't see a recession happening in the US, what are you effing blind??

reply to post by Telafree


Growth does not equal a healthy economy. Just because construction happens does not mean the economy is fine.

Speaking as someone who worked in construction for many years...work projects are approved years before the economy might turn sour. Contracts are signed, money is borrowed and spent. The last thing you'll see many years later is the actual construction going on.

In my area homes are still being built despite the fact that new homes arent selling. There are new homes in my neighborhood that have never had an owner and remain unsold going on 2 years now. Its hard to fathom why companies continue to build when existing homes wont sell but they do.

The OP mentions plenty of jobs in his area. My question is this, what kind of jobs are they. Around here, the manufactoring jobs that paid $25 an hr with full insurance, dental, and a retirement plan are gone. Theyve been replaced with retail jobs that pay $8 an hr with no benefits and no insurance.

I personally have been unemployed going on 4 years now. If you dont count the part-time job I had 4 years ago, Ive been unemployed since 2001. We never really recovered from the recession of 2001. Businesses got back to making money but it was a jobless recovery.

There are millions like me that hav no hope for a job. Thankfully my wife makes enough to cover our household or we'd be homeless.

fyi, I have a BA degree in Communications (emphasis in advertising and public relations). I get a nice fat bill each month for my college loans but I cant find a job.

From my viewpoint, the recession is very real and getting worse

reply to post by daddyroo45


Thank you for your post. I am sorry to hear stories like yours. I am just curious though, what the hell happened to all the jobs?

Originally posted by daddyroo45
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

 

WE have a lot of people out of work.people struggling to feed thier families.I don't know if we are headed for a nation wide recession,but we sure are in one here.

Fact: People are definitely losing their Jobs and Houses due to Mortgage
Bondage Strap Trap and there's a severe Recession heading more massive than the recent Tsunami....However, it may be wise to know that this is all a man-made thing, invented at the stock brokers brothel, whereby banksters plot well in advance, how to topple the cake, and leave behind the crumbs for the weary taxpayers. This is an age old magic of the conjobbers.

reply to post by sc2099


Thank you for your comments. This is the kind of response I was looking for. You are definitely right about the strength of the USD affecting canadian manufacturing and I personally experienced that welding RVs for 5 years.

I guess you could say I am a little ignorant saying that well every where I look all I see is money to be made construction going crazy, that must mean that everywhere is like that. I guess I went into the assumption that because Canada relies so heavily on the US economy that well I figured I had the right to assume that.

But at the same time, I do not see that the troubles some part of the US lasting very long. Because all I see is people taking more responsibility for their spending and also banks and lenders taking a closer look at their practices, and making sure that this doesn't not happen again in the future. As far as jobs go, I think right now thats a sector that is changing right before our eyes. Instead of working mundane manufacturing jobs, jobs that require a little more training and education that are in effect better than those mundane ones, is the way the country is heading. Also people might be forced to move new locations to get these new jobs. It seems as though some places are drying up while many cities have the opportunities they are looking for....my 2 cents

The reason I created this thread was to see if what the MSM was true because from what I see up here in Canada, and from what some of my family in the US have seen there, it seemed like a huge exaggeration. But it has been made painfully clear to me from the posts on this thread that some of it is in fact true. So I will respectfully ask the mods to close down this thread.

Just one more thing. (climbs on his soapbox), If there is one thing I have learned in this life is that anyone can pick themselves up from nothing to become anything they truly want to be. The problem is the fear because things like moving to a new place (no I'm not trying to tell everyone to move to canada:lol or taking a new job in a field you've never worked in before, etc are sometimes daunting and a little scary. You have the choice to make as much or as little money as you want, if that is, you forget about the fear, real or imagined. (Steps off of soapbox)

Thank you all for your comments they are much appreciated

The money system is set up so that leverage from the top can affect EVERYTHING underneath it.


For example:


The Fed removes 1 billion in liquidity from the regional banks.

The regional banks then have to call in 10 billion in loans...

Causing the commercial banks to need to cough up 100 billion dollars or go under.


All because of reserve ratios. From the top the fed can flood the economy with dollars, or starve it. From the top, the fed can supply industry with working capital by lowering interest rates, or put industry to a stop by raising them.


THIS IS A POWER GIVEN TO MEN WHEN IT BELONGS TO THE FREE MARKET.


Without competition in sources of funding, a monopoly power exists, which is a way of FORCING the public into a bad deal because there are no alternatives! Before the Fed existed, interest rates were determined by forces of supply and demand among many different financial institutions using many forms of money and value. The public could CHOOSE what it trusted, and huge swings in the economy were ironed out by people moving to safer investments and money.


THE FED IS A MONOPOLY ON MONEY.


Supply and demand don't work under this system. They pull the lever as a train engineer hits the throttle or the brakes....

This is the most confusing economic time in America that I've ever seen. I'm not an economist, but more of a history/news buff (including the great depression and bank panics in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century - which introduced us to the Federal Reserve). Right now, it appears to be somewhere between an economic chess game of nations and monetary systems and a great power struggle. Problem is - I can't figure out or connect enough dots to know the good guys from the bad guys. Perhaps they are all the same and serving but one shadowy master.
I live in Denver and while we are 8th in the nation regarding housing foreclosures, business as a whole seems pretty good and there are plenty of jobs being advertised and construction cranes dot the skyline in central Denver as we get ready for the Democratic Convention in August.
With that said, I am seeing an alarming growth in poverty and the working poor. I'm concerned that our gov't is distributing an "economic stimulus" in the billions to its citizens. Additionally, seeing that memorable video-bite of Sec. Paulson, emerging from a late night White House meeting - he was rumbled, collar open, tie slackened - very dramatic...then the next thing we know, he's off to China.
I guess I'm left with the feeling that the gov't and media is trying to create a crisis and citizen anxiety, but for what outcome? We'll all just have to wait and see. In the meantime, with all the headlines of tainted water, lead filled toys, poisonous foods, collapsing infrastructure, I am indeed saddened to see my beloved country dropping ever so slowly into a second world status. It's not "morning in America" anymore; it's about 7:20 p.m. and we all know what happens at midnight.

I'm in California. I see mixed things.
Theres a few home sites I drive by everyday that
have stopped construction on new homes. They
have big signs advertising homes for sale. I guess
their trying to sell some before they start building again.

The house across the street from me has been for sale
since last summer. Recently this last month, two houses
next to it have gone up for sale. I see plenty of for
sale signs around.

The roads look full though. Doesnt seem like gas prices are
keeping people from driving. I see restaurants have
a good crowd and shopping malls.