I got a question about Noah and the flood.

The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. I've never read or been shown a passage that shows the length of time between the Earth being made and various events that occured in the Bible. How is it that people came up with the whole young Earth theory anyways?

As for the Flood being just a fairy tale, there are many accounts of a global flood by ancient civilizations all over the world. It's not strictly a Biblical account by any means.

In the traditions of most ancient civilizations there can be found a legend concerning a flood of such enormous proportions that it is believed to have covered the whole Earth. Such was the destructive force of this flood that few land animals and plants survived it. For readers in Western society the most famous version is the story of Noah and the Ark as recounted in Genesis, the first book of the Bible. Although it may be the best known, the account of Noah's adventure is neither the only nor the oldest such legend.

Legends of a flood can be found in the folklore of such diverse places as the Middle East, India, China, Australia, southern Asia, the islands of the Pacific, Europe, and the Americas. But the best-known flood legend--that on which the story of Noah is based--had its origins among the peoples of ancient Mesopotamia in the Tigris-Euphrates river valley.

In a fully developed form, the Mesopotamian flood myth appeared in the 'Epic of Gilgamesh', one of the first literary masterpieces, which relates the adventures of a hero-king of Sumer. The earliest versions of the epic derive from the first part of the 2nd millennium BC. The story of the flood is told to Gilgamesh by Utnapishtim, the counterpart of Noah in the story. Advised by the god Ea that his city is to be destroyed by flood, Utnapishtim is told to build a ship for his family, servants, and animals. After a seven-day flood, the vessel comes to rest on a mountaintop. The wrath of the gods has been appeased, and Utnapishtim and his wife are granted immortality.

Religious texts from the 6th century BC in India tell the story of Manu, meaning "man," who is warned by a fish about a coming flood. In the legend Manu builds a boat and saves himself.

In China the flood myth had a different emphasis from the legends told in the West. The flooding of the land from time immemorial was seen as a hindrance to agriculture. The floodwaters were made to recede through the labors of a savior-hero named Yu the Great, who successfully dredged the land to provide outlets to the sea for the water. Thus was the great central river valley of China made suitable for agriculture and the development of civilization. ragz-international.com...

So obviously, there was SOMETHING that happened which involved a world-wide flood. I imagine that the water from it found it's way underground and became the source for our wells, subterrainian rivers, geysers (like at Yellowstone), etc and froze in the polar regions creating the ice caps. That's just my theory on it anyways, but I do not claim to be the authority on the subject.

Originally posted by Toltec
James the when a pole shift occurs electricity is generated. That is what causes the memory loss

Actually it�s more along the lines that the halves of the brain loose their connection. Interestingly enough there was a professor who postulated (this was in the 70s) that its possible that mankind lacked connections between the halves of the brain in ancient society.

This being a potential causes for why ancient man reported so many visions. It was a way for the left
and right side of the brain to communicate with each other. The left side being oriented to reality in relation to such issues as mathematics while the right side is more artistic and philosophical

Lets cut to the chase here......

There is absolutely no way to prove this. There is absolutely no evidence that memory loss has occured. Remember.....if you lose all of your memory, then you cannot survive. Everything that had a brain would have died being that they forgot to eat.

So when you are trying to prove a point as insane as the truth of Noah and His impossible ark, try to use evidence other than complete nonsense. That way you won't be put in a position defending something you have no knowledge of whatsoever. For instance memory loss due to pole shifts.

[Edited on 3/9/2004 by Seapeople]

The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. I've never read or been shown a passage that shows the length of time between the Earth being made and various events that occured in the Bible. How is it that people came up with the whole young Earth theory anyways?

you can work it out from the age's of the people in the bible to get a rough estimation. It is only rough but we work work out an estimation and it definatly isnt hundreds of thousands let alone millions of years.

Some people are saying that noahs ark is a load of rubbish.Can anyone tell me why you believe this?????

So Noah's Ark is a to Far Fetched Implausible Things (FFIT)?

Isn't ATS devoted to FFIT? As seen, people put up "facts" saying the Ark could have been. People put up "facts" saying the Ark never could have been. Just like Greys and Reptoids and Cassiopeans.

We do not know for certain the age of the earth. We have estimates ranging from 6 thousand to 4 billion years. Problem. No one was there to record the date and time in a scale we know and understand. Earth had processes and patterns back then (however long ago). Problem. No one has left us a scienfic record of experiments conducted back then.

We live on a world that has huge mountain ranges and deep trenches. We argue about how they got there. We find tropical fossils on Antactica and we argue about how they got there. It seems obvious from said facts about fossils and mountain ranges that the earth has seen its share of catacalismic, plate-shifting geological events.

Why is a world wide flood a FFIT? Just because an admittedly old book said that's what happened? That's more record than anyone else has recorded. This is not a question of science, because scientists failed to leave us a record.

For myself, I'll buy this FFIT far more easily than I'll buy a lot of FFITs on this board. And I don't buy Greys.

---------------------------

It is my understanding that the Himalayas are still slowly riseing because the plate that India sits up is slowly drifting underneith it and propping it up. The Rockies appear to potentially be the result of someone pushing those plates around and having them buckle. I find it entirely plausible that the mountains covered by Noah's flood were not much of mountains by our reckoning, and that tall moutains as we know them didn't appear until later.

As to the water, there is a great deal of water tied up in the atmosphere that wasn't necessarily always there as well as a great deal of "virgin water" in the depths of the earth that science hasn't monitored for more than a very short length of time.

In Ovid's story about the destruction of humanity (by a mountain covering flood) it took some outside help to get the waters back down.

Neptune, ruler of the ocean, tasked Triton (a "merman" who came up out of the sea with barnacle encrusted shoulders) to blow a special horn. The sound of the horn induced the waters to appropriately "relocate." The horn was described as a "twisted shell whose mouth comes spiraling off to one side."

See: Barry B. Powell, Classical Myth, 3rd Ed., Prentice-Hall, Inc. (2001) page 127.

NASA has a flyby picture of Neptune's moon Triton that shows a large depressed area filled with water ice.

Best I recall, the picture is one of the Astronomy of the Day APOD photos.

Triton, the moon, also has a unique surface structure that looks very much like barnacles. The APOD article (or whatever article it is) says that Triton has the only structure like that in the Solar System.

Another moon of Neptune is described by NASA, in the same article, as looking like a twisted donut. Maybe that's the horn!

So where did the waters go? Away!

It's not the water thing that bugs me. I wonder how he fit 2 of every one of the 30,000,000+ species of land animals in to that ark he built. I mean, it must've been one hell of a big boat. That's a lot of animals. I mean, if he could just take two birds, two snakes, two dogs etc. I could maybe see that. The bible doesn't allow for evolution though so, he had to take two of every species of bird, two of every species of snake, two of every species of dog, etc. That's gonna take up a lotta space. That's not even counting food for all these animals. Maybe it's just a myth.
Oh, wait. Thomas Crowne said it wasn't a myth and, he seems to know everything.
Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that he(Thomas Crowne) is wrong and it was just a myth. Getting that many animals into one boat and having enough food is impossible. Even for Superman.

[Edited on 3/9/04 by NotTooHappy]

I was skimming over these posts about the great flood. I saw one posting that mentioned the size of the boat and how and what type of animals were inside. Something that I did not read here is a description of the flood from a so called guy from the CIA on a tv show (I believe it was TLC or the Discovery channel.)

Anyway the story I heard was that several features around the planet could only be explained by catastrophic flooding (possibly torrents of water raining down). The story goes that the Earth opened up along the earth's ridges such as the Mid Atlantic ridge and that huge fountains of pressurized water from deep down shot up possibly 10 miles high as the ridges cracked open from the depths in a cascading effect sort of like ice breaking along a crack. Anyway torrents of water rained down and would have covered everything I imagine. The tv show then proceeded to show formerly classified satellite CIA photos of a boat on Mt. Ararat that appeared very high up in the glaciers. This story seems somewhat reasonable to me but begs additional questions.

If tons of water rained down for 40 days and nights, wouldn't there be an indication of this in the antarctic ice sheet?
If this happened around 6 to 10 thousand years ago, how do you account for so many different races of humans? Seems like alot of different races of people on one boat from just one spot on the globe.

If oceans of water were raining down on the Earth, then sea levels would have to be vastly lower before the torrents of rain fell (unless you account for the water disappearing via space somehow).

I've also heard from gene studies that the human race once had only a few thousand people or less where the human race was almost wiped out according to the evidence, can all this be tied to a certain date in the past (maybe 100,000 years ago or 15,000 or something) In other words, evidence of flooding in antarctic along with low human population according to gene studies?

If anyone else saw the show the pics were pretty good of "Noah's boat" for satellite pics that is. The questions were generated by me. any thoughts?

Originally posted by Byrd
Well, it's a legend.

Noah's flood works out just fine if you view it as a local flood. If you try to make it out to be a global flood, you run into a lot of questions:

Where did the water come from (remember, it must have covered Mt. Everest. That means the earth was flooded to a depth ABOVE where commercial jet airline traffic flies today)?

When we send humans to that height, oxygen deprivation sets in and they faint. The Ark wasn't designed for space travel.

If the waters had risen that high, it would have pushed Earth's atmosphere into space and most of it would have escaped the gravitational field of Earth and gone floating off to the stars.

And where DID 2-3 miles of water go? It's not under the crust. It's not in the hydrologic cycle.

Myth, relating events of a local flood.

If you are wont to base your logic on evolution; I would agree with this riff-raff.

If one does not know (all of us) how much water there is to be produced from within the Earth......if you have no faith.......

How can you know what the status of the Earth was long ago?



[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Tyriffic]

A 48,000 year old biblical earth.
Given the basic statement in the bible that the earth was formed in 6 days and the creator rested on the 7th after humans were created do the math. This creator entered his day of rest after all that, and the bible says he doesn�t come out of his day of rest till after the thousand year rule of Jesus. Most people that are into studying the bible would agree that humans have been around for about 6,000 years. That and the thousand year rule of Jesus would place us at a rest day length of 7,000 years. Easy enough math. Now then since each day is equal to another the normal creative work day would be 7,000 years long. Thus the earth may have been created with the life we know it being brought forth over a span of about 42,000 years (6 creative days). Our legends and folklore, mythology and so on give a much better description of earth�s history than most scientists give.

In the time of the ancient Egyptians...they used tobacco to fight off bacteria and preserve the dead. Now...the only place that tobacco was available at that time was in the region of today's South America. Did they boat there...or...did they walk across land when water was mostly beneath the earth's crust...just to acquire tobacco? Through studies and so forth...I have become to believe that the "Great Flood" waters were stored inside the earth until Noah's time...they burst forth from under the crust and even formed meteors and comets...and also left us the oceans of today upon the earth. Without the water under the earth's crust...the land formed mountains and valleys that we have today. Anyhoo...that's my input..think about it.

I'll add a note here. I don't believe the Earth was evenly covered like a flat ocean, I believe the water was pouring down from the sky with possible tidal waves. Just curious for the Bible experts, does the Bible state that the entire Earth was covered at the same time or does it leave that open? Tidal waves of mountainous height would be really impressive. Time for all the known races of man to develop after the flood though raise a question of when this flood may have occurred. A story of a great flood is referenced in more than one culture. I wonder if the American Indians have a tale of a great flood too and how that story goes.

Maybe we are almost all wrong and the great flood was just the island continent of Atlantis sinking down into the ocean and Noah set sail in a tidal wave that washed him ashore on Mt. Ararat.

I also heard of a local flood theory where I believe the Mediterraen suddenly flooded into the Black Sea area where alot of dry land used to be. Evidence has been found to prove this flood did occur.

Has anyone thought about what I just wrote? It is proven that the ancient Egyptians used tobacco!!! Tobacco was only available in what we call today the continent of South America!! That is not possible unless the earth was mostly land with small bodies of water in between. I am fed up with all the Bible bashers on this site. Evolution and the Bible walk hand in hand...nothing can be 100% proven...but...if you take what facts that are available...piece them together...then you will get the right idea.

Sea levels were at least 90 ft lower than they are today about 10,000 years ago. I saw a show on TLC or the Discovery channel showing parts of a large underwater manmade structure off the coast of a Japanese island. I believe the conclusion was that this structure was made over 10,000 years ago because the sea levels were at least that much lower during the last ice age. I'm not sure how much sea levels have risen since a possible great flood.

It is true that the floodwaters came from both above the earth and below according to the bible. I was just showing that the floodwaters from clouds also stopped the radiation while in our upper atmosphere. Also answering a few other questions at the same time. There is high probability the earth�s waters at one time were far lower than just 90 feet. Take into account the capacity of both underground and atmosphere holding capacities and the drop in sea level could have been as much as 1500 feet, but I suspect more like 900.

Originally posted by Bruno
When it started raining and Noah had all the animals on board. God open up the heavens and the fountains of the Earth. It rained 40 days and forty nights until all was consummed or covered by water. After the 40th day it stoped raining and the waters receeded.
Now as I see it everthing is covered in water, even the tallest mountains. Thats a heck of a lot of water, RIGHT.
RECEEDED TO WHERE????

There was a water vapor canopy in the upper portion of the sky. The vapor content allowed things to be watered by condensation. Plant life would be extremely fruitful with these conditons.
Then to break that all up, a rather large asteroid came in and dented the mantel which produced giant tsunamis. The impactor contaminated the upper water vapor canopy and or the atmospheric pressure changed. Then the vapor condensed into a gridlock of thick rain clouds. It took 40 days to wring out.
But at the start of the impact of the asteroid, the giant tsunamis swept from the western hemisphere to the eastern hemisphere. All the animals were swept under the earth displacement; hence-"all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open." Noah's ark was located in the eastern hemisphere.
All the mountains were covered with water- the entire surface. For the mountains and continents were not as high as they are today. In order to bring the land out of the water, the ocean floor's were dropped which allowed for an opposite reation for the mountains to push up the continents.

The planet changed:

1. Human longevitiy ended-eating meat required now.
2. unbalanced dry and rainy areas.
3. Hurricanes/tornadoes/lightning-unstable atmopher
3. Too hot, too cold-equator and poles almost unlivable.
4. Vegitation now limited due to sporatic weather.
5. A rainbow now exists-direct sun light against rainfall.

...
Change to Planet

6. Fermentation-It seems that the grape juice that Noah kept fermented into the first bad wine. Noah did not know that the long kept grape juice would ferment and become intoxicating if drunk. Noah lived hundreds of years before the flood and he must have had grape juice somewhere along that time. Grape juice did not ferment and spoil before the flood. That is why he got unknowingly drunk and then naked.

I hadn't heard some of that before. I'm interested in item 6 above. Please forgive me if I've forgotten about what causes fermentation but can someone explain how the difference in atmosphere before and after the flood prevented fermentation before the flood but then allowed fermentation after the flood?

I don't think the issue of how he got all those animals on the boat. I mean, 2 of every animal. That's a lot of animals.

NotTooHappy - "It's not the water thing that bugs me. I wonder how he fit 2 of every one of the 30,000,000+ species of land animals in to that ark he built. I mean, it must've been one hell of a big boat."

Simple. Noah took genetic samples of each animal, male, female, clean and unclean. That way he could fit every species on the planet. That's only way I can see it working. All he needed to do is get a blood sample from each animal, mark it, and store it on the ship.

I JUST WROTE THE BIGGEST FREGGIN ARTICLE ON THE FLOOD!!!!!!!!

AND MY COMP FROZE!!!!!!!!!

GAG GAG GAG!!!!!!! illpost soon...AGAIN!