I CAN'T see god or feel my soul help me !!

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by Howie47
How could you be betting your soul? If you say, "you don't have one".
Are you willing to admit you do?

I don't think I ever said we don't have souls. I do not know for sure if we do or if we don't. I suspect we do, but I couldn't say it is so without lying that I know. Know what I mean?

With the definition I provided earlier. We are all souls. "An entity, that thinks, feels and remembers." the question is; does a soul live on after physical death. We can't know that 100%. Until we go through that experience.

Who knows for sure? But just in case we do have souls, my bet is that all this make-believe stuff = idol worshipping. Come on, not everyone with their different versions of their make-believe "truth" are going to be right. At most only one could be right while the rest are fibbing, right?

Do you also believe. Scientist who make theories, and hypotheses, are just lying? Some of them argue most strongly, that their theory is rock
solid fact. Like Evolution. You don't think a person can be in error. You seem to be saying, "If they aren't 100% correct. They are liars! Is that
what you really believe?

Tell me, which version of god do you recommend for us that can't see and tell for sure which one is right? Keep in mind I don't want to be beheaded nor go to hell forever nor be considered closed minded if I pick the wrong one. Please, someone, help us out that can't see these gods everyone else proclaim are real that tells them all these things that we can not hear. I'm so confused. And I suspect I am not the only one too.

You seem to think, every person of faith, has God in a box.
Nothing could be further from the truth. God is so big, he is impossible for
simple mankind to fathom. God has to reach down to us, before we
can know of Him. Each of us may know a little different perspective of
God. Yet we can also share common knowledge of Him.

Somebody is lying, that's for sure. And they should know we do not appreciate these threats of death by beheading and their threats of eternal hell for not playing along with the right belief. And we don't like being told WE are closed minded when it is actuality those that are sworn to a mere belief that have closed and locked minds.

Yes all humans are liars. Including you! Threats of death and beheading is something to be concerned about. Going to hell isn't a immediate threat, in this life. IF it bothers you. Why not just ask God.
"IF you do exist, and if I am in danger of going to hell. Please save me."

Anyhow, enough from me on this. I guess I got dragged in on this because I can sympathize and relate with those that are being made to feel bad and inferior and doomed because of those that proclaim they really really met and know this god dude and they aren't lying what-so-ever (despite all their conflicting claims concerning these various versions of god, ha).

Again, why not sincerely "call on the name of the Lord." So you can have your own experiences. You don't have to feel inferior and doomed.
You do that to yourself. When you refuse to receive God's savior and plan of salvation. God's saints are all equal. We are all sinners, saved by
the the GRACE of God. Gift Received At Christ Expense!

You misunderstood his intentions. He simpley wanted to assimilate you into the group. You are not supposed to either see God or feel your soul.
You are supposed to be so ashamed of your inability that you pretend to.
When you are willing to go along with anything, and do anything to satisfy the group (slight misdirection there, the unspoken leader of the group)
Then you fit in just fine, and are a deserving candidate for whatever abuses they see fit to heap upon you, then forgive each other for.

In a very ancient and holy text (Bhagavad Gita), Krishna (God) says this:

Four sorts of mortals know me: he who weeps,
And the man who yearns to know;
And he who toils to help; and he who sits
Certain of me, enlightened. ...

All four are good, and seek me; but mine own,
The true of heart, the faithful -- stayed on me,
Taking me as their utmost blessedness,
They are not "mine," but I -- even I myself!
At the end of many births to Me they come!

The entire universe is intelligent because there is intelligence contained within it. For what creator's eyes does the intelligence manifest inside, self-realizing, growing like a fractal?

It is very hard to apply rational reasoning to an apparent irrational situation. Another words; we can use all the left brain rational we want...it does not change reality. We can make something really complex or we can look at it simply. The more left brained we are, the less likely we will be able to see the truth if it is right in front of our nose!

To grow spiritually means to let go of most everything you have been taught about God. Let the truths enter the picture gradually as they are revealed to you. I have had miraculous things happen to me and have witnessed the same for those who never previously believed in God. Anything is possible, for anyone. I have rarely known anyone too stupid to get God, but I have known far too many who are too smart, to get God!

Rather than over-thinking it, LET GO! If you have a desire to learn, you will be shown, but first; we have to get out of our ego which means: Edging God Out!

Yeah, it's a little difficult at first to get used to the notion that you really don't have a soul and that there is no powerful supernatural entity taking an interest in you. Some folks don't like the idea that all we really are is an odd assortment of meat and minerals, powered by electrochemical reactions coordinated by DNA, which for no particular reason has the mindless drive to reproduce with variations to avoid breakdown. And that all of our hopes and dreams and loves and hates ultimately amount to little more than stray bits of programming that vanish into nothingness when we die.

Sure, life is basically a series or painful horrors, punctuated by very brief moments of joy, destined to end badly. And afterwards there is nothing to look forward to. You won't perceive timeless oblivion.

It's not what most of us we're taught as children. Our parents spared us that awful truth. And not everybody has the guts to face up to it. So it's no wonder that many people attach all kinds of supernatural meaning to things, and seek comfort in believing some outlandish, illogical stories they're taught as kids.

The only thing you can really do in this hellish life is focus on those fleeting moments of pleasure, keeping in mind that it will all be over soon enough, and try to be kind to other people, since that will make this brief torture slightly easier for yourself and others.

reply to post by Nohup


i love the blatant honesty of this and pretty much all of your posts. you have some of the most level-headed thinking i've witnessed in awhile, and i definitely applaud that.

but just because i hold you in esteem, it does mean i agree with you. this also means i do not disagree with you either.

your approach is fantastic...we do not have evidence that there is a soul, so you will not even entertain the idea that there is one until some piece of evidence pops up. it's a 'don't waste my time with the fantastical, because i have my life to live' viewpoint. this is definitely needed because to be honest, we need that objective outlook to keep us all grounded. we are creatures of the imagination, and we love to express and ultimately believe in anything and everything that entertains our brains.

i see and understand humanity's need for trying to figure things out, to know and believe in purpose and destiny. that feeling can be so very strong at times, the need to have the fantastical and metaphysical.

i do try to step back, to feel and experience life, without these needs. it's honestly not as fun, but we are not talking about being entertained. we are talking about what's truth.

for example, a few years ago, i stepped back and examined christianity [the religion i believed in]. i thought to myself, why am i believing this and going to church? do i really believe that it's the only way to god, that there is even a god? i answered myself, i wanted to know that when i die, my soul would be taken care of. here, then, was the turning point. i knew i was only believing still because i had the notion in my head that my soul would be in peril and would go to 'hell' after death if i didn't believe.

i was believing because of that fear, and that fear alone. i realized that was the stupidest reason to believe something. to believe out of fear is to fear out of ignorance. i realized i didn't know for certainty that there was even a soul or hell for my soul to fry in. why base my entire life out of fear for something that i don't even know for sure?

did i leave all spirituality behind? no way. i now do personal research on the metaphysical, reality, of life, of the mind, of everything. i am seeking answers, because i'm not convinced there is nothing more out there than the objective viewpoints of the realists.

i take it this way. i am growing in knowledge and understanding, and without knowing for certain, i do entertain the ideas of the fantastical. it could be that by that avenue, we can start to put pieces together. it also could be fruitless because there are no more answers out there. it would only be fruitless in obtaining hardcore evidence, but it has been very rewarding for me in the mental and emotional realms.

reply to post by banyan

i take it this way. i am growing in knowledge and understanding, and without knowing for certain, i do entertain the ideas of the fantastical. it could be that by that avenue, we can start to put pieces together. it also could be fruitless because there are no more answers out there. it would only be fruitless in obtaining hardcore evidence, but it has been very rewarding for me in the mental and emotional realms.

I appreciate what you are saying. It gives hope to believe in something outside of ourselves. I am a realist but that entails with me, a logical God. I have a hard time with romantic beliefs that in the long run don't do much for my faith, hope or daily living. It is a challenge to continually question beliefs and to not give up. The world or the condition of the world would almost demand defeatism. As long as there is the ability to grow and to alter my thinking where needed, to gain new insights, I will.

I think the OP defines the weeping lost soul. Perhaps we should stick to help rather than persecution. We can state, if you believe in the god of jews then perhaps you may understand having a soul. I would say, if you do not understand having a soul by this time, you are condemn, by the terms of that religion. That religion comes with a first belief clause. If you were not exposed to any form of religion which may have been taught by heaven, you will remain condemned. When you are exposed to it you will automatically believe, as in, you know the truth.

This soul sounds weeping. That means it refuses to believe. It needs to feel warmth beyond human compassion. Perhaps this is a soul long condemned.

Since we are not god, souless, sounds like the answer. Therefore no matter what our imput is it will remain condemned. The first beleif clause defines those with a soul and those without.

It does sound mentally disturbed. Perhaps its acts are wrong and uncontrolable. God uses the souless for the blame. Their acts will look wicked. These are some aspects of the weeping soul.

So I say bow down and believe in the god of the jews and see if you become united with heaven at the soul. If you don't, don't worry, it is not all of the persecution that men want to do to those they believe are in league with satin. Believe, if you can, in a god of compassion.

SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF HEAVENthen further more there is Mark 5:1-19, and 10:15 if there ain't no answer at the door.

First of all, you probably aren't ever going to see God until you die...

Secondly, I had the same problem for a while. For a period in my life I doubted and for one day I wasn't sure what I believed. And ever since then my faith has grown continually, and now I can feel it. Don't know how to explain it, just keep believing and reading your Bible, and try to live by God's Word, and hopefully that feeling of joy and inner harmony will eventually come. That feeling often comes with age.

reply to post by Divinorumus

Yeah, acknowledged, but I must be honest about how I feel, and that is how I feel about "beliefs." I really do suspect NOBODY has met any GOD, and thus neither do they KNOW what any GOD may be all about. I really suspect they are lying, playing make-believe in their heads, honestly I do.

Beliefs should not be advertised or sold as truths. A lot of people can't and won't lie, and thus can't and won't play "make-believe" when it comes to god and spirituality.

Those that continually proclaim they have personally met and know some GOD and make up proclamations that the rest of us, us non-make-believers, should be beheaded and banished to hell forever, are really NOT very nice people! And I want them to know that.

And I want those that have never shook some Gods hand and double checked his credentials to know they shouldn't feel bad or rejected and destined to spend eternity in hell just because of what these jaded lying make-believers proclaim, that only they are special and better than the rest of us.

I would suggest that those who say such things that you are pointing out have in fact not met the essence referred to as God.

It is, in my opinion, quite a Godly attribute to reject such things.

reply to post by Divinorumus

Please, someone, help us out that can't see these gods everyone else proclaim are real that tells them all these things that we can not hear. I'm so confused. And I suspect I am not the only one too.

It seems to me that you are doing well to reject any concept given about God that is in opposition to the highest ideals that you can personally perceive.

I was reading an article yesterday that I haven't finished yet, but there is a statement within it that I wholeheartedly agree with. I'll give the last line of the statement first and then include the first part.

"Religion is an infirmary for the spiritually sick, ..."

"Do you know what religion is? It is a school in which every soul must be trained, smoothed and polished by the Holy Spirit, who acts as a physician to our souls until, well smoothed and polished, they can be united and joined to the will of God. . .Religion is an infirmary for the spiritually sick, who wish to be cured and must therefore undergo the pains of surgery."

The man who said that was Padre Pio.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you are undergoing the pains of surgery wherein the claims that others make, which pain you, are being cut away.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by L.I.B.]