Friction After Patrols in Phoenix Immigrant Area

PHOENIX — Scores of sheriff’s deputies, assisted by civilian volunteers and shadowed by observers from immigration advocacy groups, conducted saturation patrols this weekend in neighborhoods where illegal immigrants live, work and worship.

Phoenix

What troubles me about this situation is they were able to find civilian volunteers to help.

I know some people on here have issuse with immigrants in the US, but I don't because I know my ancesters were immigrants.

That for me is not the issue that I found in the story. My issue is they were able to use common citizens to help with their aginda.

What will common citizens do to help when Martial Law is instated?


another link to this
story
In this on they are called a posse.

Nearly 200 deputies and volunteer posse members were expected to continue the high-visibility patrols near East Thomas Road and North 32nd Street throughout the Easter weekend

Here is a different story having nothing to do with immigration, where the sheriff uses a posse of volunteers form th community.
Posse
[edit on 22-3-2008 by freedomataprice]

[edit on 22-3-2008 by freedomataprice]

You bring up a good point so I starred and flaggged you. This can be a very slippery slope to mob rules, vigilante "justice" and witch trials.

Originally posted by freedomataprice
What troubles me about this situation is they were able to find civilian volunteers to help.

I know some people on here have issuse with immigrants in the US, but I don't because I know my ancesters were immigrants.

That for me is not the issue that I found in the story. My issue is they were able to use common citizens to help with their aginda.

What will common citizens do to help when Martial Law is instated?

UMMMM I think your a little off here. This has nothing to do with immigrants....it has to do with ILLEGAL immigrants! People aren't happy with ILLEGAL immigrants sucking up healthcare, social services, etc....so correct your assumption before you start bashing cops and regular people for wanting to keep some justice and order within their borders.

Noone I ever spoke to cares about anyone coming from anywhere if done right and once their here pay taxes and pay for all the other crap the rest of us do!!!

reply to post by stikkinikki


I was just thinking of all the people I know( not friends) that dislike one race or another. Or they dislike one religion or another, and would love the opportunity to roundup some of these people for the "common good".

reply to post by rcwj75


My issue is not illegal or legal immigrants. It is that they used Citizens to help with the roundup.

I will not argue the immigrant issue.

Thanks for the reply.

These immigrants are only 'illegal' because some douchebag in DC, who comes from an ancestry that were only not 'llegal' because they hadn't created that law yet, created a law that made the land they stole off limits to anyone else.

Who the hell gave them that right? If you're worried about people taking your living then you'd do better to look at your own government, not the symptoms of a corrupt system. Who has the right to make a claim on land that's been here since the earth was formed? Who has the right to say you cannot go and settle where you want? Property is theft, and this property was stolen from those very people you now want to label illegal.

Get over the 'illegal' tag and look at the real issue, understand your history.
Not all laws are just laws and not all laws should be respected, especially those made to control the many for the benefit of the few.

Sry freedomataprice I know you don't want this to be an illegal immigrant discussion but I felt the need to make this point. Unfortunately the flood gates were opened...

well lets think about it though, it SHOULD be an issue if legal vs illegal...and you should be GLAD citizens got involved. They weren't forced...they agreed to help round up and get rid of those here illegally. That means THE PEOPLE are taking care of their own land and their own country. THAT is not a bad thing......

reply to post by ANOK


I just need to clairify. Are you talking to me when you made your post?
I understand my ancestry.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm sure that post was directed at me freedom..

ANOK
So what your saying is the entire WORLD is wrong...because if I remember right...there are alot more countries then just us in the US who have borders they protect and immigration policies they enforce....hmmmm...

reply to post by freedomataprice


Nope sry I was referring to the comments by rcw and his 'illegal' statement.
I thought it would be obvious.

I just get tired of people saying something shouldn't be because it's 'illegal'.
As if the law is something above us all that can't be changed. It's not, the law was made by men with their own agendas. The only law I respect is those I consider 'natural' laws, live your life as you wish while doing no harm to others.

Who is really being harmed by this law? The immigrants? All of us? Your problem of lack of jobs etc is not the fault of illegal immigration. It's the fault of a corrupt system. The blame as usual is shifted to the symptom not the cause. It hurts ALL OF US in the long run. What if the American Indians had that law? Think about it...The only reason your ancestors were not 'illegal' is that very reason, there wasn't a law yet. So quit using the law as a reason for hate...If you want more jobs then you need to work for change, not reduce to hate for a group of people who are nothing but a symptom of a corrupt system. Bailing out the basement while there's holes in the roof will get us nowhere.

Originally posted by rcwj75
...So what your saying is the entire WORLD is wrong...because if I remember right...there are alot more countries then just us in the US who have borders they protect and immigration policies they enforce....hmmmm...

Well you would be right yes I don't agree with borders, anywhere. The whole world as you call it is controlled by very few people.

But the point is, you as an American and your immigration problem is the discussion, not the rest of the world. If you want me to comment on the rest of the world then maybe you could start a new post.

Again sry OP your post is already going where you don't want it to, this will be my last comment on 'illegal' immigration.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes the fact that citizens were used as law inforcement is a dangerous road to go down in a situation like this. People thinking with their emotions, based on biased viewpoints and ignorance of history, instead of thinking with their brains will not stop the problem of people having to move to escape a worse situation somewhere else.
America could do a lot to help Mexico, but no we want to spend our money killing Iraqis. The problem is cause by a system that is supported by those who are slaves to it. If everything was working well and the country really had the wealth it claims then 'illegal' immigration wouldn't be a problem. Unless of course your problem is not immigration but the people immigrating?... I know lots of Europeans here illegally who work and have kids in high school but I never hear mention of them. It's always the Mexicans.

reply to post by freedomataprice


Although I don't agree with the use of civilian volunteers as they are not familiar with the law, I do agree that illegal aliens should be removed from the country as they are having a negative affect on the economy aside from the fact it is against the law.

reply to post by ANOK
I have to agree to a point. As far as the law is concerned,the people who made them abuse the hell out of them or change a law to suit their needs or someone elses.BUT,we need some structure.Remember,this is coming from someone who is not a big fan of cops (put nicely).

If we followed our natural laws (we are animals after all) then we would be killing anything to eat and protect and it would be natural and done just because of difference in race. Do you see lions and hyenas and cape buffalo being civil.They're governed by natural law. Only we become civilized through domestication.

Any law we follow would be man made. What we need is basic laws.We got too into microlaws disecting the meaing of words to suit a particular peolpe. OUR COUNTRY , our laws and they shouldn't be changed because somebodys religion or race doesn't like it. This is the problem. Follow our laws or stay the hell out.If not we have total anarchy and lives of American born citizens being ruined.

I don't like breaking my back for 20 years barely surviving.Maybe I should invade a few banks and Fort Knox and take what I want after all it's only man made laws and why should they have what I don't. (see my point)

I hate to break it to ya but they'll never be harmony on earth as much as I would like to see it.Since the beginning of time it has been one people trying to take over another. In the UNITED STATES it's the same thing on a small scale.

Author unknown. The spread of knowledge and education has taught mankind little in the art of self contrl and even less in living with one another.

19DCW71. The smarter we become the dumber and more destructive our actions are. This is the reason The Superb entity never gave us power. We need to be managed.

So I don't find it disturbing that people or posses are banding together with legal figures to get things right. Isn't that what Sharpton and everyother race and religous group do in our country????

As much as I don't like law enforcement I would find common ground on which to get along and operate.Follow what everyone else had to, or get the F**k out and if you don't leave you will be rounded up and dragged out. We obviously need to do it because the Government aint doin squat. They obviously want them here for a particular reason or cause. If they didn't benefit believe me they would round up 20 mill illegals no problem.

US Constitution Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion

As far as emotions,everyone has them and even our law enforcement get too emotionally attached to the job. We are human.



[edit on 23-3-2008 by 19DCW71]

Since I live here in Phoenix Arizona, I thought I'd chime in as I am at ground zero and experience this every day. I have allot to say and some interesting facts which should shed some light on how much worse it is going to get.

About one third of our city is Mexico. Yes... Mexico. If you drive south of a street called McDowell and west of a street called 15th avenue you will be in Mexico. No American signs (except for street signs) no American shops, and well..no Americans... only Mexicans.

We have been unable to quantify the actual number of illegals entering our state but it is mind baffling...in the hundreds of thousands of border crossings a month each way.

Did you know that the second largest source of income for the country of Mexico is money sent there from America? These are dollars that will never be "repatriated"...lost to fuel another country's economy.


Drive to any Home Depot (For those whom don't know it's a huge home building and do it yourself warehouse chain) and you will see many times hundreds of illegals waiting out front for day labor jobs... and they work cheap....$8.00 an hour for whatever you want them to do. Then watch a cop drive by and they all scramble.


We have a sheriff name Joe Arapiao. He is widley recognized as the toughest sheriff in the country. We have a jail system that consists of "Tent City" see attached image:


Yes you are sing that right, old military tents and that is an inmate whom are issued pink underwear and yes we do have chain gangs see image:


And he is the only law enforcement official in the state to have his deputies trained and certified to be immigration officers.

I don't have a problem with immigrants. My family immigrated here from Alsace Lorraine before it was absorbed by France after world war 2. But what I do have a problem with are those that immigrate here illegally. Coming to America illegally trivializes the honest immigrants work they have put in to become citizens on the United States.

This situation is going to get much worse for Arizona.

1) The recent law passes only a few months ago barring any business from hiring illegals is starting to show its effects. The worst hit industry is the farm harvesting workers needed to harvest crops. No one will do the job for the money offered and as such our crops will go wasted or prices will sky rocket as domestic labor rates will cause a trickle down effect.

2) A new law coming up which will be the death nail in this city is making it illegal to rent to illegal immigrants. Already many apartment complexes have lost 40% of their occupants from the enactment of the first law, and now with this new law, we will see huge swaths of housing developments apartments and all of the business that support them go out of business.

Just last week I was talking to a legal Hispanic electrician. He had to fire all of his illegal employees and is downsizing his business, selling his truck and working out of one truck...he gave me his card begging me for any work.

Im my view from ground zero, Arizona is toast. Our real estate based economy supported by cheap labor is facing the worst recession of our states history. Even in the fancy area of town called Scottsdale there are something like 4,000 foreclosures EACH MONTH!!!

Hold on kiddos...this is going to get rough!

I for one am proud to hear that Americans are standing up for what is right and helping rid this country of people who knowingly broke the law already to come here.

As for the whole "but your ancestors came here illegally in the first place" argument - Back then, there was A LOT of land. More land then anyone living here could occupy - and if that was still the case, I would see no reason for borders. Now, times have changed - we dont have the room, nor the resources to harbor any more people flooding into our country unchecked.

Maybe after WW3 the population will be culled, and people will be allowed to immigrate to wherever they want, but until then, I say sentry operated machine guns in the desert - much better deterrent then them barrels of water put there to actually encourage such behavior.

I hate to say it but your right. We definately need some downsizing. Plenty of this world is made of useless beings (of all races and religions) w/nothing to contribute to society. My brother in law always tries to get me to go hunting. I would out of necessity, not for sport.I do have a meat store up the block. Anyway i would rather hunt and rid the world of useless non contributing wastes of life who use up valuable resources the rest of us could be using.

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning murder sports,but let's be real. Just because someone's a human doesn't mean they deserve to live. Don't hand me that moral,ethical stuff either.You can easily judge by actions if a person is totally useless.After all would you eat a piece of crap covered in icing? No,either way it's still a piece of crap.

Sympathy and sympathizers are weak and we as a nation will never survive.I don't know if everyone's blind or just neive or tolerant to the fact that we slowly being taken over and our American heritage is being eradicated from history.Not much longer before America becomes a 3rd world country



[edit on 23-3-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 23-3-2008 by 19DCW71]

Look, these people come across the border and pay no fed taxes. They use medical services and dont even make a attempt to pay any of it back. Their brain dead kids get tossed in jail, and we get too pay for that as well! Not only that, but they seem to think that it is Ok too have 9 kids on a 17K a year salary. Then bitch and whine that everything is too expensive. I 100 percent understand Arizona on this issue. Not long from now I bet Texas and Nevada follow. If you northern states want em, you can come down and bus them up there

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR


Again NOT the issue I wanted to discuss.

My issue is with a civilian posse!!

Please read my original post and the links.

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by freedomataprice

Again NOT the issue I wanted to discuss.

My issue is with a civilian posse!!

It sure is your issue. It has to be. Your failing to see WHY civilians volunteered to help! They helped because they are sick of (again..ILLEGAL) immigrants using up all of our services & recources, and NOT paying back into the system. The issue at hand in Phoenix has nothing to do with marshal law. ML is for the GOVERNMENT to overthrow and lock down its OWN citizens. What is happeing here is US citizens standing up for their own country and laws. Trying to keep an already out of control problem from getting worse.

If marshal law was imposed...thats a whole different card game. But I don't see regular citizens being willing to lock down their own friends and family if that day ever comes. So again sorry to say it...but this whole thread IS about ILLEGAL immigration!

[edit on 3/23/2008 by rcwj75]

reply to post by rcwj75


NO it is NOT!!!!!!

Read all the links I provided and you will find the last one has NOTHING to do with Illegal Immigration!

You have made it about immigration issues. I stated in my first post

That for me is not the issue that I found in the story. My issue is they were able to use common citizens to help with their aginda.

Please reread the first post.

Thanks for the reply.